Leftovers from previous drafts for Indy V

TheFirebird1

Active member
dr.jones1986 said:
What made you change your mind as far as finding merit there now?

I agree they made great villains in Raiders and Crusade but I feel using them during the Cold War when there were so many other deplorable regimes that were actually in power at that time doesn't make sense. Disney would never use communist China even though they would make sense during the 60's because of Disney's dependence on the Chinese market.
Yeah...this sort of leads into my problem when someone suggests that we simply "bring the Nazis back". By the late 1950s into the early 1960s, the number of active ex-Nazis was certainly substantial, but not enough to justify an actual threat. And at this point it's like flogging a dead horse, not to mention the fact that Steven has felt extremely uncomfortable using the Nazis as villains again after researching for Schindler's List, and I can't say I blame him. The atrocities they committed during the war were nothing short of terrifying on a massive scale.
And did everybody just forget that there was a megastate known as the Soviet Union up until 1991? They provide the perfect templates for villains. An ultra-modern, harsh, extremely rational and tactical fighting force that viciously eliminated any opposition standing in its way, while still being quite unlikable is the perfect enemy for Indiana Jones. And reintroducing them as villains can rectify Crystal Skull constantly referring to them as "Russians" (though many Ukranians, Tajiks, Georgians, and Belorussians I know would most likely disagree), while also giving them the threatening bent they sometimes (though not always) lacked in the last installment.
As for Communist China as the villain, well, yeah, that's not happening. America itself is so tightly tied to the PRC economically that even U.S. politicians refuse to call out the various civil rights abuses going on over there, including the suspected internment of Chinese Muslims in concentration camps. But hey, at least they buy Disney movies! (y) :sick:
 

TheFirebird1

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
I actually want an Indy set mostly in the U.S.
Eh, that's a risky move for a big film like this. Comics/Novels/made-for-TV movies I could see, but one of the main aspects of every Indy movie is that there's a lot of travel (or at least hopping from one country to another). I suppose keeping it inside the continental U.S. would be an interesting stylistic subversion, but it has the possibility of alienating and boring a wider audience. The whole "globetrotting, adventurous archaeologist" side of Indy kind of dies out when he's pretty much travelling in his own backyard, no matter how wide that backyard may be.
 

The Lone Raider

Well-known member
Personally, I feel that unless the haunted castle bears some sort of archaeological significance, it shouldn't belong in an Indiana Jones film, as cool as it is...and it is cool. It certainly contains the macabre and creepiness of the first two movies, but aside from that, it feels out of place for Indy, even when taking into account George's ideas pontificated in the Raiders Story Conference. Not all of his ideas are that great.

Aside from the biplane fight - which, while a bit unrealistic, was in my opinion the most exciting and suspensful scene in City of the Gods script - I don't think any of these ideas should be resurrected.

A completely fresh and original script sounds optimal to me, because it allows for maximum creative freedom.
 
I definitely am for the museum chase scene and the rooftop fight scene, they could work well and fit perfectly. The biplane fight scene I can imagine with a younger Indy in a flashback perhaps?

The haunted castle setting, well I don't know... only if they can incorporate a McGuffin and it works well. They did use castles in the series Relic Hunters, so it's not exactly without example. Mind you I do think the best part of the Monkey King draft was indeed the beginning with the haunted castle...
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Archaeology isn't limited to ancient or even pre-modern artifacts; there's no reason a haunted castle scenario couldn't involve a significant relic of one kind or another.
 

The Lone Raider

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Archaeology isn't limited to ancient or even pre-modern artifacts; there's no reason a haunted castle scenario couldn't involve a significant relic of one kind or another.
That I understand, but the sequence in the Monkey King didn't have anything to do with an archaeological relic. It was a fun sequence, truth be told, but it felt very out-of-place regardless, almost as if Indy had just found himself in a Scooby-Doo episode. That's why I don't believe the haunted castle sequence, if left mostly unaltered, belongs in an Indiana Jones movie. But my mind is open if the scene is adjusted to suit his occupation.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
The Lone Raider said:
That I understand, but the sequence in the Monkey King didn't have anything to do with an archaeological relic. It was a fun sequence, truth be told, but it felt very out-of-place regardless, almost as if Indy had just found himself in a Scooby-Doo episode. That's why I don't believe the haunted castle sequence, if left mostly unaltered, belongs in an Indiana Jones movie. But my mind is open if the scene is adjusted to suit his occupation.

Well, sure. I wouldn't assume it would be simply cut-and-pasted into a new script. And, yes, there's a touch of Scooby Doo about it.

As I've suggested elsewhere, there's no need for the castle to remain in Scotland. It could even be in Japan.
 
Japan does have some terrifying ghost stories, Himeji Castle would be perfect for example. But Europe has some nice haunted castles too. (My country has a lot of castles as well, been to a few of them.)

All it needs is a good McGuffin.
 

The Lone Raider

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Well, sure. I wouldn't assume it would be simply cut-and-pasted into a new script. And, yes, there's a touch of Scooby Doo about it.

As I've suggested elsewhere, there's no need for the castle to remain in Scotland. It could even be in Japan.
That's actually a really good idea. I didn't even think of that. It would be especially helpful if they wanted to explore a part of the world that the movies haven't delved into previously, and it could really allow the writers to get creative. I guess it didn't occur to me that castles weren't exclusively European.
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
youngindygirl said:
All it needs is a good McGuffin.

Yes & no. It mostly needs a good McGuffin, but if the characters aren't true to themselves or things are too outlandish, you end up with with KotCS.
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
I am sure there are concepts that were developed that we do not know about. And then some that we do.. for example I think the ants idea was available in old scripts prior to KOTCS being released

The challenge is that there are some many unproductive scripts (some of which we do not have access to) so it makes it hard to predict what may be used.

And because they switched directors.. probably less of the available scripts would be used (if at all)
 

fedoraboy

Well-known member
Mangold has stated he and his writers started with a 'blank page'. I suppose that doesn't exclude the possibility of them bringing in elements form earlier Indy V (or unused Indy IV) scripts, but I expect we'll see less recycled elements in this film than the previous 3.
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
I think so. There could be script issues as they put that script together awfully fast.. especially if they were not piggybacking off earlier ideas.

This reminds me of when JJ Abram's took over TROS
 

fedoraboy

Well-known member
I think so. There could be script issues as they put that script together awfully fast.. especially if they were not piggybacking off earlier ideas.

This reminds me of when JJ Abram's took over TROS
I wouldn't worry about the speed they put it together - he had the best part of the year to write it, which is plenty of time time to come up with a decent story. I think one of the BIG issues with KOTCS was that they were trying to cram in too many ideas from too many different drafts that it all got confused and muddled and the story was lost. Same was true of Abram's ROS, too many hang over ideas from the muddled previous entry that needed to be included, while also wrapping up the 9 film saga, it was too much for the story to hold (plus Abram's is pretty terrible at wrapping up stories anyway!) If Mangold was starting from scratch and just getting to write the story he wants to tell - without anyone insisiting they include this element or that element - then we should get a neater, sleaker film with a clear story/direction.
 

Nerdpants

Well-known member
I wouldn't worry about the speed they put it together - he had the best part of the year to write it, which is plenty of time time to come up with a decent story. I think one of the BIG issues with KOTCS was that they were trying to cram in too many ideas from too many different drafts that it all got confused and muddled and the story was lost. Same was true of Abram's ROS, too many hang over ideas from the muddled previous entry that needed to be included, while also wrapping up the 9 film saga, it was too much for the story to hold (plus Abram's is pretty terrible at wrapping up stories anyway!) If Mangold was starting from scratch and just getting to write the story he wants to tell - without anyone insisiting they include this element or that element - then we should get a neater, sleaker film with a clear story/direction.
I think this is a reasonable position to have.

Perhaps KOTCS did suffer from the issues you suggest.
 
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