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Old 12-01-2011, 06:36 PM   #76
The Drifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Yeah, man! Abe Lincoln kicks vampire ass! Gimme a fricking break. I can just imagine the "other" movie. Vampire-huntin' Lincoln with a six-shooter in each hand, a cross hanging from his neck, a vial of holy water in his pocket and a spike tucked into his trousers. He is probably adept at Kung-Fu, too.

That sounds pretty damn appealing, in my opinion! Like Bubba Ho-tep with Honest Abe, instead of Elvis.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:54 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Finn
*Sigh* Despite me drawing a clear line between "good" and "bad" silliness, somebody still decides to ridicule the point by using the very same means I already condemned. (Well, what can you expect from an old fart?) Don't think Van Helsing, think Evil Dead with extra sophistication.

You sir, win 10 Internetts in Ignorance.
Was your reply entirely clear, though? No. Please remember that I'm an Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.
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Originally Posted by Finn
The former. I've already gone through the book with the latter and I have to admit, there's always the risk that they forget the satiristic parts in the process of adaptation to the silver screen.
Good. Considering the general, superhero love here at The Raven, the vampire hunter flick will probably have greater appeal than the historical one.
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That sounds pretty damn appealing, in my opinion! Like Bubba Ho-tep with Honest Abe, instead of Elvis.
Can you imagine Bruce Campbell playing Lincoln?
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:00 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Was your reply entirely clear, though? No. Please remember that I'm an Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.
Okay, I'll try again. There's no need to mock it, since it's already the thing doing the mockery, in loads. It's not stuff dictated by "Rule of Cool", it's a satire/parody of it. And if I might say, quite original in what it does.

And what is judging it as "stupid concept" after apparently coming across nothing but the name, other than ignorance?


Welcome to the new cultural reality, gramps.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Can you imagine Bruce Campbell playing Lincoln?

It would get The Drifter's seal of approval.
But, on a more serious note - I have been looking forward to Spielberg's Lincoln ever since I first heard about it (which was right here at The Raven, surprisingly! )
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Finn
There's no need to mock it,
There is no "need" but it can be mocked because the idea is stupid (even if it's a satire/parody). What's next? George Washington: Zombie Killer!
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Originally Posted by Finn
Welcome to the new cultural reality, gramps.
Farewell to the old, classic decency, punk.
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Originally Posted by The Drifter
It would get The Drifter's seal of approval.
Abraham Lincoln: "Afterall, I'm the president and you're the president's wife...last time I checked."
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:47 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Finn
Hey hey hey. Don't judge it beforehand. The book is quite good, actually.And the Internet agrees.

Gotta say, I thought P&P&Z was superior to the Lincoln story. The original Austen novel really was the perfect vehicle for the mash-up -- what with the troops and the traveling through the countryside.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:56 PM   #82
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I thought P&P&Z was superior to the Lincoln story.
Who else besides you knows what, "P&P&Z", means? Can you talk in English, please?
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Who else besides you knows what, "P&P&Z", means? Can you talk in English, please?

Sorry for being lazy -- "P&P&Z" is "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies".
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:44 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
There is no "need" but it can be mocked because the idea is stupid (even if it's a satire/parody). What's next? George Washington: Zombie Killer!
Nope, I heard that this guy's next work deals with an... hang on, I got it written up somewhere... an archaeologist? Dressed in... WHAT? A lion tamer attire? And he goes around the world fighting bad guys? With a friggin' BULLWHIP?

You know, I'm starting to agree. These ideas ARE stupid.

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Originally Posted by Joe Brody
Gotta say, I thought P&P&Z was superior to the Lincoln story. The original Austen novel really was the perfect vehicle for the mash-up -- what with the troops and the traveling through the countryside.
I'll have to note that I never made a direct comparison between these two works, simply defended them from the damning club of this Homo Ignoramus. But yes, P&P&Z is the better one. Though "Lincoln" isn't a turkey either.

And the fact that you of all people show up, commentating them, should be loads of proof for the fact that they're far more than something made for these modern kids with a five-minute attention span.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:00 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Finn
Nope, I heard that this guy's next work deals with an... hang on, I got it written up somewhere... an archaeologist? Dressed in... WHAT? A lion tamer attire? And he goes around the world fighting bad guys? With a friggin' BULLWHIP?

You know, I'm starting to agree. These ideas ARE stupid.
Erm, you know that Indiana Jones is a fictional person, right? Lincoln isn't. Maybe the authour's next book should be, "Mohandas Gandhi: Werewolf Buster" or "Benjamin Disraeli: Mummy Smasher"!
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I'll have to note that I never made a direct comparison between these two works, simply defended them from the damning club of this Homo Ignoramus.
Good grief. I don't care for a concept that tickles the tummies of the Homo Frivolous. So what? Yeah, I'm ignorant!
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:35 AM   #86
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This thread only came alive when the undead got involved.



There's really only one Lincoln film that sounds vaguely interesting:

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Old 12-02-2011, 09:14 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Perhaps Lincoln repeated his speech (in the White House) at a later date, specifically for this recording? Who knows? It's a mystery that needs to be solved...
Googled it, and evidently there is no record of de Martinville traveling to the U.S. in the 1860s. The sound of the speaker's voice also does not, by my ear's meager appraisal, match the descriptions I've read of his voice. Not merely the pitch, but also the accent seems out of place. I'd wager that soundtrack was taken from a film from the middle of this century. It also seems like if there were an authentic recording, the Smithsonian would be all about preserving it, and Youtube would not be where one would have to go to find the sound clip.
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This thread only came alive when the undead got involved.
See, off-topic threads can be, um, enlightening.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:22 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Erm, you know that Indiana Jones is a fictional person, right? Lincoln isn't.
Without any sarcasm for change, I do fail to see how this makes the world of difference. Silly concept ought to be silly, whether it involves real people or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Good grief. I don't care for a concept that tickles the tummies of the Homo Frivolous. So what? Yeah, I'm ignorant!
I don't take beef with you not being interested in it, but I do take some from the fact you seem to imply that the concept is stupid. Because I don't think those should be judged, only the end result.

Seriously, if people left everything that doesn't sound "sane" to the drawing board (especially if there's no political correctness involved), we would never have seen this piece of genius for example.

Also doubles as primo philosophical advice to you, my friend.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:36 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by WillKill4Food
Googled it, and evidently there is no record of de Martinville traveling to the U.S. in the 1860s. The sound of the speaker's voice also does not, by my ear's meager appraisal, match the descriptions I've read of his voice. Not merely the pitch, but also the accent seems out of place. I'd wager that soundtrack was taken from a film from the middle of this century. It also seems like if there were an authentic recording, the Smithsonian would be all about preserving it, and Youtube would not be where one would have to go to find the sound clip.
You are probably right, Will, which is unfortunate because I would love to hear his voice. (Where did you read that it was squeaky?) Must agree with you about the accent, too, but it's supposed to be a genuine phonautogram recording so it likely wasn't taken from a film.
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Originally Posted by Finn
Without any sarcasm for change, I do fail to see how this makes the world of difference. Silly concept ought to be silly, whether it involves real people or not.
Well, there is a difference but it's not worth explaining.
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Originally Posted by Finn
I don't take beef with you not being interested in it, but I do take some from the fact you seem to imply that the concept is stupid. Because I don't think those should be judged, only the end result.
I'm not implying, I outrightly called the concept stupid and added that it was my opinion. Seems that someone else shares a similar outlook:

Entertainment Weekly
"But that still leaves us with a trivial book, clinging to a fad past its prime — a labored send-up that refracts the life story of one of the most important, famous, and minutely analyzed figures in all of American history through a cockeyed and ultimately foolish lens. (spoilers removed) Fangs for nothing. C+"
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:56 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Seems that someone else shares a similar outlook:

Entertainment Weekly
"But that still leaves us with a trivial book, clinging to a fad past its prime — a labored send-up that refracts the life story of one of the most important, famous, and minutely analyzed figures in all of American history through a cockeyed and ultimately foolish lens. (spoilers removed) Fangs for nothing. C+"

Damn. And I was really looking forward to seeing Lincoln kick butt and free humanity from vampire enslavement.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:03 AM   #91
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Where did you read that it was squeaky? Must agree with you about the accent, too...

There's a quote from his law partner William Herndon.

My interest comes from the Lincoln Biography "With Malice Towords None" which characterizes his accent as pure hillbilly, (though admittedly well read hillbilly), filled with "them thars" and "ag'in"...

He also liked to tell dirty jokes.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:13 AM   #92
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He also liked to tell dirty jokes.

That should get the punters in.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:33 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
There's a quote from his law partner William Herndon.

My interest comes from the Lincoln Biography "With Malice Towords None" which characterizes his accent as pure hillbilly, (though admittedly well read hillbilly), filled with "them thars" and "ag'in"...
Vary intarestin', Rockit. Guess he never shook them thar Kintucky roots. (I'm imagining a squeaky version of Jed Clampett). Hopefully, this type of thing will be taken into account with the new film and that Daniel Day-Lewis pulls it off, for he is a master of his profession.

Another squeaker was Teddy Roosevelt! There are recordings of his voice but I've never seen a film portrayal that recreates it properly (including the Young Indy episode).
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He also liked to tell dirty jokes.
So Abe had something in common with The Man. Hyuk, hyuk.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
There's really only one Lincoln film that sounds vaguely interesting:


Typical, isn't it? You wait years for Lincoln film, then two come out at once.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:21 PM   #95
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I wonder if the film will show what a nut-job Mary Todd was after their son died?

I would be crazy too, if that happened to me.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:35 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Perhaps Lincoln repeated his speech (in the White House) at a later date, specifically for this recording? Who knows? It's a mystery that needs to be solved...

Well, the high quality of the Lincoln recording is a dead giveaway. Here's an actual phonautograph:



Even cleaned up and worked on extensively, it's pretty rough. And to me "Lincoln" sounds like a bad actor trying to do an 'old timey' accent.

Admittedly, it would be absolutely incredible to hear his voice.

And, for those who have heard of it, the sound recorded on pottery from ancient Pompeii:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lulnv...tailpage#t=71s
Supposedly made like a phonograph, with a metal tool on wet clay. Alas, a confirmed hoax.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Stoo
You are probably right, Will, which is unfortunate because I would love to hear his voice. (Where did you read that it was squeaky?)
Well, Michael Crichton's Timeline first, a couple of years ago, but I've seen it several times since and read it at an exhibit on Lincoln at the Smithsonian last year. (Most of us probably think of Lincoln as a grandfatherly figure, but can you imagine seeing his gaunt figure give a speech?) This article goes into a little more detail about it for our purposes, with alas no mention of the rumored phonoautograph (until the comments).
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:51 PM   #98
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He certainly has the visage down...


Is that Lincoln, or did Steve Jobs do a Dave Bowman space warp?
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:51 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by goodeknight
Well, the high quality of the Lincoln recording is a dead giveaway. Here's an actual phonautograph:

(-edit-)

Even cleaned up and worked on extensively, it's pretty rough. And to me "Lincoln" sounds like a bad actor trying to do an 'old timey' accent.

Admittedly, it would be absolutely incredible to hear his voice.

And, for those who have heard of it, the sound recorded on pottery from ancient Pompeii:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lulnv...tailpage#t=71s
Supposedly made like a phonograph, with a metal tool on wet clay. Alas, a confirmed hoax.
Well that pretty much settles the mystery. Cool video. Thanks for posting it, Goodeknight.

Re: the pottery recording. Even if it's a hoax, it's a fascinating concept and worthy of being included in an Indy tale!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillKill4Food
Well, Michael Crichton's Timeline first, a couple of years ago, but I've seen it several times since and read it at an exhibit on Lincoln at the Smithsonian last year. (Most of us probably think of Lincoln as a grandfatherly figure, but can you imagine seeing his gaunt figure give a speech?) This article goes into a little more detail about it for our purposes, with alas no mention of the rumored phonoautograph (until the comments).
Thanks, Will, for the link to the article. If anyone would know about an exisiting phonautogram, it would that guy. Interesting to know that Lincoln stood very still while giving speeches. Must check out that Sam Waterson portrayal. Has anyone here seen it?
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:07 PM   #100
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Considering the general, superhero love... at (large in the country), the vampire hunter flick will probably have greater appeal than the historical one.

As it should. It is called popular culture for a reason.

I'm reminded, however, of Joseph Ellis' quandry about bringing "the deadest, whitest male in American history" to life in His Excellency: George Washington. How do you bring to life an icon? Washington is writ large; he's both literally and figuratively above the fray.

So too is Lincoln. Few figures in the American Zoetrope have been as minutely examined and analyzed as the 16th President. None have been as mythologized. So where to begin? I doubt John Q. Public is interested in watching a treatise on Lincoln's expansion of executive powers? How about his views on when the United States came into existence? "Four score and seven years ago" when dated from the Gettysburg Address isn't the framing of the Constitution; it's the Declaration of Independence. How about why a group of ideologues called themselves "the Abraham Lincoln Brigade" during the Spanish Civil War?

Also a non-starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
“Are all the laws, but one, to go unexecuted, and the government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated?”

Anyway, the point: If Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is as historically accurate as the producers claim it's going to be, it could be an entry point for further study of Lincoln and the world he inhabited. Much like The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles were for a lot of us.

If Lincoln can survive this, he can survive vampires. Note: the following video isn't necessarily sufficient for work.

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