Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - initial impressions and casual discussion

son of Indy said:

QUOTE Some of us are people who are trying to do better, or who at least got their start in some fashion by what Lucas and Spielberg gave us. It's our profession, too. That makes us a slightly different set of viewer. Unfortunately, Lucas' "It's only a movie" is a wonderful way to make trivial what we've spent our live doing.

I, too, work in The Industry, and have done some work on SS films. I do mostly visual effects, and some small-time directing. But, that's what causes the problem for us: so many of us feel as though we're "above" the mere regular moviegoer, because we have some special "inside" knowledge of the process because we work in it, and our opinions are somehow more "legitimate" than Joe Blow down the street. But, Lucas is right: for all that we love our industry, it's still ONLY movies! We're not saving lives, or doing brain surgery, or going to the moon, or finding a new source of energy for our world. We're putting on a stepped-up version of skits in the barn. All we're doing is entertaining people, and while I do believe that at its highest form it can be a true art, as well as an engine for social change, in the case of an Indiana Jones movie, it's strictly made to put butts in theater seats and sell popcorn. It's only a treat, just for fun. There's no socially redeeming message per se, no use of film to change the world into a better place. If you want to talk about an IMPORTNT film that CAN act as a catylist for positive change, a better example would be AKEELAH AND THE BEE. At least that film showed a realistic person in a realistic situation and offered insights as to how anyone else could strive for the best.
Indy movies are GREAT fun, and maybe even somewhat inspiring for those who might become interested in the ancient worlds around us. But, they're still just POPCORN-selling movies.
And I love 'em!

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Great post. I used to be in the film business too, but got burnt out because the magic was lost for me when I watched films (plus living in LA everyone and their grandmother is a filmmaker), I liked the fluff and the fantasy. I decided I loved movies too much to let that happen so I got into finance.

I think people place a great importance on movies because of what they meant when they were young, but don't realize how hit and miss they can be and don't see them for what they are. Star Wars and Indy are B movies with A productions. Say what you want about the PT but they are made with top notch quality whether you like CGI or not. I also don't think Lucas went into the PT with a different mindset than he did with the OT, but you think differently when you get older so we got what we got, that doesn't make him a villain for it. The biggest difference in the PT and the OT is Harrison Ford.

Without him the OT and PT are very similar. Think about it! Harrison is unique and is a man's man, but I'm glad Lucas didn't just copy the OT and create a similar charcter or charcters. It keeps the OT special (just like never having the hyperspace stars in the PT). That's why this Indy is still Indy, CGI or not it's all about HF!

lynchpin said:

Remember, Raiders was nominated for an Oscar -- for best picture! Why can't other summer "popcorn" movies (especially those within the same genre, let alone series) attain the same feat. Films don't have to be Akleeh and the Bee to be *important* or great. A film that trades plot, story, motivation, and characterizations for slapstick and shock-and-awe is not a decent movie, regardless of the powers behind it. It's only a movie -- fine. But that's an excuse freshman film students give when they whine to their teacher about working with 16mm. "Your footage is unsuable, your story is undeveloped," says the teacher. "Hey, it's only movies," replies the student. "Oh, well, A+ because it's a movie!"

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The travesty of it is that when Lucas and Spielberg were making Raiders it was an ambitious effort to make the best movie they could make and an above average film and it turned out to be the film that raised the bar by which all other action films would be measured against and established a precedent and standard for that kind of movie making. Now Lucas feels he must trivialize it by making it just another B movie and not putting forth the same ambition and effort into making it an exceptional kind of film and therefore relegating it into the same class as the usual summer junkfood popcorn fare.

Agent Spalko said:

The travesty of it is that when Lucas and Spielberg were making Raiders it was an ambitious effort to make the best movie they could make and an above average film and it turned out to be the film that raised the bar by which all other action films would be measured against and established a precedent and standard for that kind of movie making. Now Lucas feels he must trivialize it by making it just another B movie and not putting forth the same ambition and effort into making it an exceptional kind of film and therefore relegating it into the same class as the usual summer junkfood popcorn fare.

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Yeah, it took 19 years to make it because they wanted to make a bad movie.

Lucas is trivializing it because fanboys are pathetic losers who bash the films because they have nothin better to do.

Im going to watch the Movie tomorrow and so far ive read about Aliens and the Worst Scenes Threads, so why make a Indy Movie about Crystal Aliens witch isent true in the real world yet, the other 3 Indy Movies were based on fact and Truth.

Any menchion of Willy and Short Round in this Movie.

Why wait almost 20 Years for another Indy Movie when Harrosen Ford is 65, why not make more Indy Movies after the third one.

sandiegojones said:

Yeah, it took 19 years to make it because they wanted to make a bad movie.

Lucas is trivializing it because fanboys are pathetic losers who bash the films because they have nothin better to do.

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After 19 years I'd expect better than "just another movie."

daventry said:

Im going to watch the Movie tomorrow and so far ive read about Aliens and the Worst Scenes Threads, so why make a Indy Movie about Crystal Aliens witch isent true in the real world yet, the other 3 Indy Movies were based on fact and Truth.

Any menchion of Willy and Short Round in this Movie.

Why wait almost 20 Years for another Indy Movie when Harrosen Ford is 65, why not make more Indy Movies after the third one.

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Isn't "true" in the Real World? Four words for you: How Do You Know?

There are plenty who could, rightly, put the Ark of the Covenant, Sankara Stones, and The Holy Grail, and aliens and flying saucers in the same category... fiction. These movies are about fantasy based on folklore, with just enough facts thrown in to make them logical.
As Indy himself once said, "If it's truth you're after, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall."
Honestly, who are we, sitting here in our computer rooms in the safety and sanctemoniousness of the Good Ole USA, to say ANYTHING about what's TRUE? Most of us in this country only "know" that which we're told by our TV sets. For all we know, ALL of the things I mentioned above could be "true" including Crystal Skulls. Part of the joy of these films is the wonder inherant in stretching the bounds of what we "know" to include that which we can only imagine.
I thought it was TRUE that the first jet engines for aircraft were tested in Germany in 1939. Why? Because History Channel said so, along with a number of encyclopedias. Imagine my surprise to read Martin Caidin's INDIANA JONES AND THE SKY PIRATES and find out, lo and behold, that the first jet engine mounted on an aircraft was by a Frenchman, Henri Coanda in 1910, using a biplane as his test bed. The test was a bit of a crash, but the engine worked. The second biplane jet he built is still on display today in a French aviation museum. He was also responsible for the designs of several craft that he called Lenticular Aerodynes. They were flat, rounded, and used the Bernoulli lift principle by using a jet to pull air across the top of the airfoil body, allowing the higher pressure to build beneath, creating VERTICAL lifting capability without any forward motion. They actually worked. They came to be called.... Flying Saucers!
So, as to what's True or not out there in the Universe... I suggest we keep an open mind.

Agent Spalko said:

After 19 years I'd expect better than "just another movie."

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Did you see it? It is just a movie. Raiders is great but it was not intended to be the greatest film ever no matter how much effort was put into making it. They succeded in accomplishing what they were after which is why it is so beloved, but lightning doesn't strike twice. Indy 4 is still good, even if it isn't Raiders.

Expectations for SW were higher than Indy. Lucas had to live though dorks lining up in Hollywood 3 months before the movie opened. I lived in LA then and saw these geeks in line fighting with plastic lightsabers and sitting on bean bags eating cheetos and drinking big gulps. People have very unrealistic expectations mostly becasue they have no lives. They place a relative amount of importance to meaningless things. I love movies but having jobs, family and friends and contributing to society is what matters. People were saying Star Wars was a religious experience and it's just a movie!

It's not just another movie. It's better. Otherwise it wouldn't be any different than The Mummy Returns.

son of Indy said:

Isn't "true" in the Real World? Four words for you: How Do You Know?

There are plenty who could, rightly, put the Ark of the Covenant, Sankara Stones, and The Holy Grail, and aliens and flying saucers in the same category... fiction. These movies are about fantasy based on folklore, with just enough facts thrown in to make them logical.
As Indy himself once said, "If it's truth you're after, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall."
Honestly, who are we, sitting here in our computer rooms in the safety and sanctemoniousness of the Good Ole USA, to say ANYTHING about what's TRUE? Most of us in this country only "know" that which we're told by our TV sets. For all we know, ALL of the things I mentioned above could be "true" including Crystal Skulls. Part of the joy of these films is the wonder inherant in stretching the bounds of what we "know" to include that which we can only imagine.
I thought it was TRUE that the first jet engines for aircraft were tested in Germany in 1939. Why? Because History Channel said so, along with a number of encyclopedias. Imagine my surprise to read Martin Caidin's INDIANA JONES AND THE SKY PIRATES and find out, lo and behold, that the first jet engine mounted on an aircraft was by a Frenchman, Henri Coanda in 1910, using a biplane as his test bed. The test was a bit of a crash, but the engine worked. The second biplane jet he built is still on display today in a French aviation museum. He was also responsible for the designs of several craft that he called Lenticular Aerodynes. They were flat, rounded, and used the Bernoulli lift principle by using a jet to pull air across the top of the airfoil body, allowing the higher pressure to build beneath, creating VERTICAL lifting capability without any forward motion. They actually worked. They came to be called.... Flying Saucers!
So, as to what's True or not out there in the Universe... I suggest we keep an open mind.

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Dude, make spaces next time, my brain hurts with all this one word reading.

I believe the Ark with the 10 Commandments and the Cup of Christ is real, because im a Christian and believe in the Bibel.

For the Sankara Stones and the Crystal Skull, they are fictional obviously.

Aliens, well we have to except eachother and kill the Racism nonsense before we actually meet an Alien in the next 50 or 100 Years because Aliens do infact walk among us everyday.

daventry said:

Dude, make spaces next time, my brain hurts with all this one word reading.

I believe the Ark with the 10 Commandments and the Cup of Christ is real, because im a Christian and believe in the Bibel.

For the Sankara Stones and the Crystal Skull, they are fictional obviously.

Aliens, well we have to except eachother and kill the Racism nonsense before we actually meet an Alien in the next 50 or 100 Years because Aliens do infact walk among us everyday.

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Okay, Dude, if you have trouble reading my words, go back to your comic books. That's about how much sense you seem to make. I'm not trying to be insulting to you here, but do you realize how many millions of people around the world YOU just insulted by saying the following:

I believe the Ark with the 10 Commandments and the Cup of Christ is real, because im a Christian and believe in the Bibel.

For the Sankara Stones and the Crystal Skull, they are fictional obviously.

For your information, Christianity is just one small factor in the world of spirituality. There are MANY people out there whose social and spiritual backgrounds feel that The Bible is "fictional, obviously" and that things such as Vishnu, Shiva, Crystal Skulls, and many other non-Western belief systems are the norm.
And, if you view the films closely, you'll see that Dr. Jones himself holds NO such beliefs in The Bible, or any other religious texts beyond the use of them for gathering possibly historic information.

Get out there in the world and learn of other cultures before you simply dismiss them and their very ancient belief systems with a flippant wave of your Bible.

daventry said:

Dude, make spaces next time, my brain hurts with all this one word reading.

I believe the Ark with the 10 Commandments and the Cup of Christ is real, because im a Christian and believe in the Bibel.

For the Sankara Stones and the Crystal Skull, they are fictional obviously.

Aliens, well we have to except eachother and kill the Racism nonsense before we actually meet an Alien in the next 50 or 100 Years because Aliens do infact walk among us everyday.

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Goodness, spell Bible correctly. All of those you mentioned are fictional and all the artifacts used in the films are supersitious.

Well im not going to debate in anyones believes, so lets move on shall we.

Im going to watch the Movie tomorrow and so far ive read about Aliens and the Worst Scenes Threads, i just hope the Movie will be good as the previous 3

Any menchion of Willy and Short Round in this Movie.

Why wait almost 20 Years for another Indy Movie when Harrosen Ford is 65, why not make more Indy Movies after the third one.

...................

I saw it a couple of hours ago.



The closer the film came to its end the more what was happening on screen felt like a kick into the stomach. The Crystal Skull centric finale and the whole famous five-chase leading up to it just wasn't as exciting, original and intense as it should have been. It's like the script drops the ball in a big way in the end.

When Indy sat down on that rock (which was actually a nice moment) after the destruction of that whole temple-thing (which just ...didn't do anything for me) it actually felt like an analogy to the whole final part of the film. That staircase for example was really cool but the real danger was missing from that setpiece as well as the captured-by-the-natives situation. I was almost wishing that, when Indy was trying to save greedy Mac, he'd get lost behind or end up in some sort of a life-threatening cliff-hanger situation.

You know in Temple, when Indy is standing on the bridge in that iconic moment of defeat and a crazy badass attempt to outwit the baddies and get out of the situation. Or in Crusade, that touching moment, in which Indy finally appears at the top of the cliff, completely whacked...
I have a hard time thinking of a classic and iconic "in over his head" - completely worn out moment in Crystal Skull.

It just feels weird that after all those drafts and years of preproduction Indy is opening one of those magic doors ...by ....whoooooo ....holding the skull right up against the head of that skeleton painting on said door. Whoooaaa.

Yeah, and then there's the good stuff. The great stuff. It's unfortunate that the disappointing part felt so strong in the end ... But basically I had a great time at the theater most of the two hours. Time passed by very fast (besides some ...scenes, that felt too long) and it was a great ride.
I actually can't wait to see the film again as soon as possible.

Some of the stuff that I loved:

-Indy & Marion=bliss
-That quicksand scene is great.
-Doomtown works really well.
-That scene in his living room with Jim Broadbent is just wonderful.
-His rapport with Mutt.
-The motorcycle chase was fantastic!!
-Indy explaining the nature of quicksand
-"if you want to become a good archeologist, you have to get out of the library!"
-Indy + Mutt reaction shot after Brody's statue has been beheaded
-"Marion Williams? Who's that?" ...Hahahahaa...
-The Diner scene was actually quite cool. Especially the way Indy
-Ray Winstone!
-Spalko works really well.
-John Hurt - now I know why "there wasn't much to act between the two of us"...I mean ...the Ox barely recognizes people... lol
-

*Oh, Harrison Ford! His charm as Indy is just breathtaking. And it's good to see him -not only be Indy again- but also bringing some new qualities to the character.


Mmmmhhh:

-"I've got a bad feeling about this" - WTF?!!!!


-So ...what Lucas liked about the Crystal Skull was the whole power-thing, I guess. Well, that's fine but during the film I pretty much didn't care about the Crystal Skull at all. So, I don't really get what's so great about it.

-Man ...Mutt's a total crybaby...

-Thank God Indy took his hat back from Mutt. I wanted to cheer when he did that.

-The wedding.... I was too shocked when I actually saw that scene play out...and I hope to get a better sense of the whole thing in a second viewing. Other than that I completely agree with that comment from Violet Indy:

The logic of Indy and Marion getting married seemed like there was something missing and ignored till the end, maybe something that was deleted from the film might explain that better.

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I'm tired as hell. I'm sure my mind will continue to replay some scenes as I fall asleep ...which will be rather cool.
It's gonna be important to watch the film again... and digest the whole experience...

Nice to know you had a somewhat postive experience. I can already start writing out a pros and cons list and I haven't even seen it yet. Hopefully my two hours are as fun and exciting as yours because I know for a fact I won't be jumping out of my chair in this movie.

Justr saw the midnight show of KOTCS in Dublin

I just caught the midnight show in Dublin and...

Its bad news I'm afraid. Let me preface this by saying i no axe to grind, have loves Indy since I saw Raiders in 81 when I was 9 and have bee so supportive of this film in any post I have written.

But, it is an unmitigated disaster. A Speilberg misfire equal or perhaps surpassing Hook in scale. I sat in the cinema in a state of pure shock with a growing sinking feeling as each scene unfolded. Everything you have heard on the net and thought, no they wouldn't do that... they did it!
The people feared that Shia would be Jar Jar in this movie were way off base. He's definately not the worst thing in it. Indy and Marions relationship is so juvenille, ridiculous and quite frankly butt clenchingly embarressing. The audience in the cinema were audibly groaning and squirming in their seats. To my horror, so was I.
I don't want to go into scenes, as I don't wish to spoil your experience if you haven't seen it yet (I know this is the spoiler section but just in case), however there is one scene invloving Mutt, a couple of monkeys and some vines that made me want to gouge my own eyes out and throw them at the screen. The ending is just, oh my God, I don't think I can even repeat how bad the ending was. Let's put it this way, someone on a post here a couple of days ago, perhaps it was a week or two, suggested a ending and was laughed off the site. Well, they should come back and demand an apology because it was bang on the money. It invloves Indy's hat. You may not believe it when you see it. This film had no danger, no tension, no sense that the characters might actually get hurt. It was Tom and Jerry cartoon stuff. Much of it didn't even look like an Indy movie. There was some dreadfull exposition. But the worst part for me was... Ford. This is incredibly painful to write. Harrison Ford has been my hereo since I was a kid. He was your go to guy for quality. He was your template for adventure. Well, he is now past it and should hang up the... do you know what? I'm not going to finish that. I'm going to stop right here. I love Harrison Fords movies and I especially love Indiana Jones. I even got a Raiders Wested from my girlfriend for a Valentines present. I am a die hard fan. And as such, I'll quit dissing this Indyfilm. Go and see it yourself. But this is one fan who is truly, genuinely dissapointed. The funny thing is I have to go see it again this evening with two buddies. Maybe I'll bring a book and a flashlight. Goodnight and Good Luck.

I am in shock!!!

Forrestal1972 said:

I just caught the midnight show in Dublin and...

Its bad news I'm afraid. Let me preface this by saying i no axe to grind, have loves Indy since I saw Raiders in 81 when I was 9 and have bee so supportive of this film in any post I have written.

But, it is an unmitigated disaster. A Speilberg misfire equal or perhaps surpassing Hook in scale. I sat in the cinema in a state of pure shock with a growing sinking feeling as each scene unfolded. Everything you have heard on the net and thought, no they wouldn't do that... they did it!
The people feared that Shia would be Jar Jar in this movie were way off base. He's definately not the worst thing in it. Indy and Marions relationship is so juvenille, ridiculous and quite frankly butt clenchingly embarressing. The audience in the cinema were audibly groaning and squirming in their seats. To my horror, so was I.
I don't want to go into scenes, as I don't wish to spoil your experience if you haven't seen it yet (I know this is the spoiler section but just in case), however there is one scene invloving Mutt, a couple of monkeys and some vines that made me want to gouge my own eyes out and throw them at the screen. The ending is just, oh my God, I don't think I can even repeat how bad the ending was. Let's put it this way, someone on a post here a couple of days ago, perhaps it was a week or two, suggested a ending and was laughed off the site. Well, they should come back and demand an apology because it was bang on the money. It invloves Indy's hat. You may not believe it when you see it. This film had no danger, no tension, no sense that the characters might actually get hurt. It was Tom and Jerry cartoon stuff. Much of it didn't even look like an Indy movie. There was some dreadfull exposition. But the worst part for me was... Ford. This is incredibly painful to write. Harrison Ford has been my hereo since I was a kid. He was your go to guy for quality. He was your template for adventure. Well, he is now past it and should hang up the... do you know what? I'm not going to finish that. I'm going to stop right here. I love Harrison Fords movies and I especially love Indiana Jones. I even got a Raiders Wested from my girlfriend for a Valentines present. I am a die hard fan. And as such, I'll quit dissing this Indyfilm. Go and see it yourself. But this is one fan who is truly, genuinely dissapointed. The funny thing is I have to go see it again this evening with two buddies. Maybe I'll bring a book and a flashlight. Goodnight and Good Luck.

I am in shock!!!

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Holy ****! It is true then. This movie blows. Jesus, I knew Lucas was going to **** this up like he did the Star Wars films. Oh, this really sucks.

Sounds like your expectations were too high. Even the critics who gave the movie a bad review seemed to like it more than you, and praised Harrison Ford's performance. Sorry you didn't like it, but I strongly suspect that I'll disagree with you 18 hours from now.

Forrestal1972 said:

This film had no danger, no tension, no sense that the characters might actually get hurt.

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I've seen this criticism a lot, and I really don't understand it. Did you really feel like Indy was in danger in the original trilogy (especially TOD and LC)? I never did.

The Indiana Jones movies are kind of supposed to be silly, so if you go into the movie expecting a Bourne movie or something, then you're likely to be disappointed.

Skipper said:

Sounds like your expectations were too high. Even the critics who gave the movie a bad review seemed to like it more than you, and praised Harrison Ford's performance. Sorry you didn't like it, but I strongly suspect that I'll disagree with you 18 hours from now.

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Skipper, I really hope you enjoy it. But let me respond by saying that I don't know what you base your assertion on that my expectation were too high. There is nothing in my post that lends itself to having too high of an expectation that the movie wouldn't be a jumbled mess. My expectaions were tempered by the long campaign to menage audience expectations by the film makers. I went in hoping for something better than the Mummy Returns (which is a film that should be wiped from the records). Unfortunately, I got something worse than The Muumy Return. I got the Mummy Returns in Space.
But I do hope you enjoy it and that you disagree with me. I just don't like being told that my expectations were too high by someone who doesn't know me.
See you back here after you've been to the theatre and we can see if the movie matches your expectations.

...I apologise if I seem rude. It's late and I'm still in shock.