?The Breaking Point: Hemingway & Dos Passos

Stephen Koch’s new book “The Breaking Point: Hemingway, Dos Passos, and the Murder of José Robles” (Counterpoint; $24.95) brings to mind how I judge people. There are three kinds of people in this world.

1. People who I would not want to share a car on a cross-country road trip. This first category is by far the largest and consists of many types: bores, egotists, sloths and pigs. I have no use for people in this first category.

2. People who I would want alongside me for a cross-country road trip. This is a much smaller but still varied group. Members of this group range from someone like Bill Clinton (who on many levels I find contemptible but I know if I'm on a roadtrip with this guy he may steal my wallet but I'm sure gonna have a blast before its all over) to someone who is quiet, considerate and will do their share of the driving and not snore at night.

3. And lastly, there is the person that I want in the same fox-hole with me. Essentially, this 'fox-hole' person is someone that will cover my back and can fend for him or herself. These people are rare. They may even have the traits of someone from category #1 but their faults are overlooked because they are capable, self-sufficient and loyal.

My guess is that Dos Passos was a needy category #1. Hemingway may have been an egotistical #2 but he knew a thing or two and I would like to think he rates a #3.

[As for Packer claiming that Hemingway 'stumbled' in Spain and accepted the Communists lies, I've got to wonder if Packer has ever actually read 'For Whom The Bell Tolls'.]

Joe Brody said:

[As for Packer claiming that Hemingway 'stumbled' in Spain and accepted the Communists lies, I've got to wonder if Packer has ever actually read 'For Whom The Bell Tolls'.]

Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm no Hemingway expert, as you know, but this...

George Packer said:

Hemingway?s hero Robert Jordan, an American volunteer in the International Brigade, carries himself through revolution and war with all the stylized, self-conscious poise of a lonely matador in the ring.

Click to expand...

...is a really strange quote.

Interesting descriptions of your three kinds of people. I spent a semester of college bumming around Europe by train. I've discovered that the ability to travel with people is a true mark of friendship. I can get along with some people perfectly well in a normal environment, but taking that show on the road is totally different. I think moving through unfamiliar environments, where you don't have all the answers brings out a different side of a person's psyche.

Where are we? Where are we going? How will we get there? What will we eat? Where will we sleep? These question add weight to a relationship, that often enough, can't be handled. A good traveling companion is hard to come by.

Joe, you aren't going to rate the rest of the Raven according to your types, are you? Well, if you do, at least let me make some predictions first...



To me, there are also just three kinds of people: those who are good with numbers, and those who aren't.

Deadlock said:

I've discovered that the ability to travel with people is a true mark of friendship. I can get along with some people perfectly well in a normal environment, but taking that show on the road is totally different. I think moving through unfamiliar environments, where you don't have all the answers brings out a different side of a person's psyche.

Click to expand...

I hold this as a universal truth and it was largely this belief that led to my three part ranking system.

To me, there are also just three kinds of people: those who are good with numbers, and those who aren't.

Click to expand...

Not good with numbers -- but can do what I need to do to do my job. I feel that my self-worth just went down through the floor.

The fox hole is a very weird thing to me, I never want to be in a fox hole with anyone, as people who are in fox-holes are usually ont he defense, and will be overrun, maybe with the exception of Sgt. York and Chesty Puller, I never want to be in fox hole, and how would you know

Sgt. York was a pacifist, who just happened to know how to use Kentucky windage to his advantage, would you want him guarding your back?

Chesty Puller was a Charles Askins like solider, who did more with a K-bar than most will ever do with a rifle, in a Rambo movie.

Robert Jordon, is and probably always will be the greatest fictional hero (anti?) ever, but would I want him in my fox-hole, no way too moody.

I agree that you can learn much about a given person, in some instances more than you desired to, when you go traveling with them. It's interesting to observe how taking away familiarity and a few comforts can impact a given person's behavior. I've always thought that how someone deals with the small changes imparted by a trip provides insight into how that person handles adversity. If they can't handle the minor alterations of travel, crisis is likely not going to be where they shine. I think traveling also demonstrates a great deal about how flexible and giving a person is. It's odd that a simple journey can be so revealing of a person's character, but at least within the realm of my limited experience, they always have been. Interesting too that the closest friends I have are individuals that I have had good experiences traveling with.

In thinking about trips, long and short, I couldn't help but think about my favorite traveling companion: my wife. On our honeymoon, we went to New Mexico, and one of the side roads available to us amongst the sights we saw was to Lincoln, New Mexico, site of the infamous Lincoln County War and several of the notable exploits of one William H. Bonney, a.k.a. Billy the Kid. It is amazing how many of the buildings from that period have remained intact and we spent a fascinating afternoon touring the old courthouse (and seeing the markers where two deputies were shot dead as the Kid escaped confinement there), seeing the store once owned by John Tunstall, examining the site where Alex McSween's home stood before being burned to the ground to force McSween, the Kid, and their companions out in the open, and many other points of interest. Speaking of flexibility in traveling companions, I don't think that my wife was as enthused as yours truly about visiting Lincoln initially, but despite going to appease me, she went with an open mind, and ended up enjoying herself as much or more than I did.

roundshort said:

The fox hole is a very weird thing to me, I never want to be in a fox hole with anyone, as people who are in fox-holes are usually ont he defense....

Click to expand...

Usually???? Even the fastest moving advancing elements have to stop from-time-to-time and put up a perimeter, which means fox-holes.

Paden said:

I don't think that my wife was as enthused as yours truly about visiting Lincoln initially, but despite going to appease me, she went with an open mind, and ended up enjoying herself as much or more than I did.

Click to expand...

Last year, my wife deferred to me and we took our vacation on the Rio Grande down by Big Bend National Park. It was late at night as we made our way to our lodgings and my wife nearly hyper-ventalated (sp?) over the desolation (no people, no radio reception, coyotes crossing the road in front of our car, etc.). It was not the type of vacation she would have picked for herself. But we had some great hikes, a great day at the pool (in February) and found some great food. She wound up having a great time.

Joe Brody said:

Usually???? Even the fastest moving advancing elements have to stop from-time-to-time and put up a perimeter, which means fox-holes.

Click to expand...

<i>The phrase 'there are no atheists in fox holes' does not suggest there is no atheism. It suggests there should be no fox holes.</i>
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

So either this quote means only true believers stop by to think their defense, <i>or</i> too many wars are waged due to religion. Hmm.

...and, oh yeah, I'm off-topic.

Finn said:

<i>The phrase 'there are no atheists in fox holes' does not suggest there is no atheism. It suggests there should be no fox holes.</i>
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Click to expand...

Ralph was right of course -- but on the grand triptik of our species we are still closer to the state of nature than not.