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Old 10-30-2010, 08:35 PM   #401
Attila the Professor
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Originally Posted by JP Jones
This news is making me think that we're going to get the dark knight again except even more realistic and gritty. What made Begins (and TDK I guess) great batman movies is that they had all the familiar batman elements and characters from the comics and cartoons, but presented them in a modern, realistic way.

Without the (Zodiac killer... COME ON! that would've been awesome) Riddler, all signs point to an unfamiliar villian that only batfans know.

'm thinking this franchise is drifting towards no longer being recognizable as "batman".

How many laymen were aware of either the Scarecrow or Ra's al Ghul before seeing Batman Begins? I'd wager that "not many" is the answer. I hadn't.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:04 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by JP Jones
This news is making me think that we're going to get the dark knight again except even more realistic and gritty. What made Begins (and TDK I guess) great batman movies is that they had all the familiar batman elements and characters from the comics and cartoons, but presented them in a modern, realistic way.

Without the (Zodiac killer... COME ON! that would've been awesome) Riddler, all signs point to an unfamiliar villian that only batfans know.

I'm thinking this franchise is drifting towards no longer being recognizable as "batman".

I actually think this is a good thing, since the original incarnation of Batman never truly did it for me. Christopher Nolan is the best thing that ever happened to Bats. He brought a gritty and plausible realism to the universe and characters. He single-handedly rescued "the Batman" from the sour memories of Batman and Robin. And it doesn't hurt that Christian Bale is THE best Batman on film. Feel free to disagree, but I think "Nolanverse" Batman is the greatest superhero of all time.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:27 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by kongisking
I actually think this is a good thing, since the original incarnation of Batman never truly did it for me. Christopher Nolan is the best thing that ever happened to Bats. He brought a gritty and plausible realism to the universe and characters. He single-handedly rescued "the Batman" from the sour memories of Batman and Robin. And it doesn't hurt that Christian Bale is THE best Batman on film. Feel free to disagree, but I think "Nolanverse" Batman is the greatest superhero of all time.
*clapping* couldnt have said it better myself. i totally agree with you.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:38 PM   #404
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*clapping* couldnt have said it better myself. i totally agree with you.

*Takes a bow.*
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:16 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by kongisking
*Takes a bow.*

Take another one.

Nolan's version was perfect to my idea of Batman - apart from the supposed death of Two-Face, which was a little like Burton killing off the Joker after one outing.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:56 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by kongisking
I actually think this is a good thing, since the original incarnation of Batman never truly did it for me. Christopher Nolan is the best thing that ever happened to Bats. He brought a gritty and plausible realism to the universe and characters. He single-handedly rescued "the Batman" from the sour memories of Batman and Robin. And it doesn't hurt that Christian Bale is THE best Batman on film. Feel free to disagree, but I think "Nolanverse" Batman is the greatest superhero of all time.
Well here's what I'm saying. One of my favorite movies of all-time is begins because of excatly what you said. It still felt like a comic book, but just "real life" instead of that stupid silly crap in batman and robin.

A lot of people will agree that begins "got batman right". So after all the praise, Nolan decides to go even further with the realism, which should not have happened. He got rid of a lot of the familiar comic book elements and as a result the film (aside from the joker and batman) didn't have that look that all batman movies need.

And you know TDK got praise, so I'm thinking Nolan is gointo take it up even one more notch to where we don't even get a recognizable villian. Mabye not even a batcave or batmobile because that might be too "silly".

This is my opinion, but I think Nolan is taking this too far. I grew up with the animated series, and that's how like to see my batman... movies (Christian Bale is the best) A dark real-life comic book.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:08 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by JP Jones
Well here's what I'm saying. One of my favorite movies of all-time is begins because of excatly what you said. It still felt like a comic book, but just "real life" instead of that stupid silly crap in batman and robin.

A lot of people will agree that begins "got batman right". So after all the praise, Nolan decides to go even further with the realism, which should not have happened. He got rid of a lot of the familiar comic book elements and as a result the film (aside from the joker and batman) didn't have that look that all batman movies need.

And you know TDK got praise, so I'm thinking Nolan is gointo take it up even one more notch to where we don't even get a recognizable villian. Mabye not even a batcave or batmobile because that might be too "silly".

This is my opinion, but I think Nolan is taking this too far. I grew up with the animated series, and that's how like to see my batman... movies (Christian Bale is the best) A dark real-life comic book.

I understand, friend. I still think it's in the character's best interest to keep it as plausible as possible, especially since TDK's realism was so successful with critics and audiences, that now people refer to Batman as "the Batman" and Heath Ledger's Joker is now the Joker everyone thinks of when they hear his name. Face it, Batman is transcending his origins as a mere comic book superhero and is now becoming (as Alfred said), "something more."
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:49 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by kongisking
I understand, friend. I still think it's in the character's best interest to keep it as plausible as possible, especially since TDK's realism was so successful with critics and audiences, that now people refer to Batman as "the Batman" and Heath Ledger's Joker is now the Joker everyone thinks of when they hear his name. Face it, Batman is transcending his origins as a mere comic book superhero and is now becoming (as Alfred said), "something more."

I agree. I like the approach Nolan took with Batman Begins. It was like deconstructing a household name, and creating him again along more plausible lines: showing how in the 'real world' a human could become a super-hero.

I also liked Watchmen for the same reason, and the Ultimates version of the Marvel heroes. When you begin to ground characters in a more familiar everyday environment, you can more easily feel their pain and triumph.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:57 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by kongisking
I understand, friend. I still think it's in the character's best interest to keep it as plausible as possible, especially since TDK's realism was so successful with critics and audiences, that now people refer to Batman as "the Batman" and Heath Ledger's Joker is now the Joker everyone thinks of when they hear his name. Face it, Batman is transcending his origins as a mere comic book superhero and is now becoming (as Alfred said), "something more."
We might just have different visions of what Batman should be. I think Begins did it perfectly and you think Dark Knight did it perfectly. I think the series is headed down a worse path and you think it's heading towards a better path. Unfortunatly, I'm a minority in that regard so, you could say... "I'm screwed"
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:04 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by JP Jones
We might just have different visions of what Batman should be. I think Begins did it perfectly and you think Dark Knight did it perfectly. I think the series is headed down a worse path and you think it's heading towards a better path. Unfortunatly, I'm a minority in that regard so, you could say... "I'm screwed"

These paths are only temporary. After Nolan Bats will get re-invented again. There was a time when I thought Burton's version couldn't be topped - that Nicholoson's Joker was the ultimate version.

The creepiest Joker, in my mind, will always be Caesar Romero. (Creepy clown!)

The best Joker so far, however, was Heath Ledger.

Nothing's forever, and we can always return to the comics and pick our favourite incarnation of Batman.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:40 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
These paths are only temporary. After Nolan Bats will get re-invented again. There was a time when I thought Burton's version couldn't be topped - that Nicholoson's Joker was the ultimate version.

The creepiest Joker, in my mind, will always be Caesar Romero. (Creepy clown!)

The best Joker so far, however, was Heath Ledger.

Nothing's forever, and we can always return to the comics and pick our favourite incarnation of Batman.
Exactly. There is so much batman and I love all of it. It's life in movies is just heading the wrong way in my opinion.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:45 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by JP Jones
Well here's what I'm saying. One of my favorite movies of all-time is begins because of excatly what you said. It still felt like a comic book, but just "real life" instead of that stupid silly crap in batman and robin.

A lot of people will agree that begins "got batman right". So after all the praise, Nolan decides to go even further with the realism, which should not have happened. He got rid of a lot of the familiar comic book elements and as a result the film (aside from the joker and batman) didn't have that look that all batman movies need.

And you know TDK got praise, so I'm thinking Nolan is gointo take it up even one more notch to where we don't even get a recognizable villian. Mabye not even a batcave or batmobile because that might be too "silly".

This is my opinion, but I think Nolan is taking this too far. I grew up with the animated series, and that's how like to see my batman... movies (Christian Bale is the best) A dark real-life comic book.

Script wise, casting wise, TDK was def on par w/ or maybe even better than BB (yeah, I'm also one of those guys that prefers BB). But my main gripe about the film is its look: Gotham is waaaaay too cleaned up for my tastes. Now not all of it, at some points in the film we enter some gritty, seedy looking areas (such as behind Maroni's club, where Dent is holding the Asylum patient captive), but for the most part its just another American city. If they had established that we were in Gotham's upper class district and had also shown us the Narrows and such, I would've been okay w/ that. But as it stands, BB to me represents a Batman film at its purest.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:48 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by TheMutt92
Script wise, casting wise, TDK was def on par w/ or maybe even better than BB (yeah, I'm also one of those guys that prefers BB). But my main gripe about the film is its look: Gotham is waaaaay too cleaned up for my tastes. Now not all of it, at some points in the film we enter some gritty, seedy looking areas (such as behind Maroni's club, where Dent is holding the Asylum patient captive), but for the most part its just another American city. If they had established that we were in Gotham's upper class district and had also shown us the Narrows and such, I would've been okay w/ that. But as it stands, BB to me represents a Batman film at its purest.
Yeah, that's a problem I had too, and I've said it before. If you look at any shot of the city (for the most part mind you) you just can't call it Gotham. "Just another American city' sums it up beautifully. Where's Wayne Tower? Where's the Narrows and Arkham Asylum? Where's the monorails? What made BB so great was to see these familiar landmarks and elements in a real gritty, dark Gotham Ciy.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:58 PM   #414
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Also, and I know this isn't everyone's reaction, but being from Chicago, I get taken right out of the movie at several points. Too many instantly recognizable landmarks for me to believe it's "Gotham".
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:28 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by TheMutt92
Script wise, casting wise, TDK was def on par w/ or maybe even better than BB (yeah, I'm also one of those guys that prefers BB). But my main gripe about the film is its look: Gotham is waaaaay too cleaned up for my tastes. Now not all of it, at some points in the film we enter some gritty, seedy looking areas (such as behind Maroni's club, where Dent is holding the Asylum patient captive), but for the most part its just another American city. If they had established that we were in Gotham's upper class district and had also shown us the Narrows and such, I would've been okay w/ that. But as it stands, BB to me represents a Batman film at its purest.

I think the idea behind this is that under Batman and Gordon's watch, the city has literally "cleaned" itself up. It's anyone's guess if Gotham reverts back to its dirty, grimy Batman Begins self in The Dark Knight Rises as a result of crime running even more rampant in the wake of all the crime lords being wiped out by Harvey Dent (I hate to call him the derogative term Two-Face with the knowledge of how tragically messed up he is) and Joker.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:18 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Jones
A lot of people will agree that begins "got batman right". So after all the praise, Nolan decides to go even further with the realism, which should not have happened. He got rid of a lot of the familiar comic book elements and as a result the film (aside from the joker and batman) didn't have that look that all batman movies need.

And you know TDK got praise, so I'm thinking Nolan is gointo take it up even one more notch to where we don't even get a recognizable villian. Mabye not even a batcave or batmobile because that might be too "silly".

Begins was filmed about half-and-half on soundstages and on location in Chicago - the stages allowed them to construct whatever they wanted and make it more "Gothamy". Knight, on the other hand, was filmed almost entirely in Chicago with little (if any) stage work.

So anyway, you will probably be pleased to know that they've said the shooting of Rises is going to again be split about half-and-half with locations and sets.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:06 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Nolan's version was perfect to my idea of Batman - apart from the supposed death of Two-Face, which was a little like Burton killing off the Joker after one outing.
Two Face's death was the only flaw I could point to in The Dark Knight. Nolan's treatment of Batman, and the evolution of the character, was dead on, as was his handling of the Joker. But Dent should live on. He is one of the enduring villains of the Batman canon and should survive to threaten Gotham and his nemesis again in the future.

For those interested in the comics, Jeph Loeb's treatment of Two Face in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory is well worth reading.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:52 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow
Also, and I know this isn't everyone's reaction, but being from Chicago, I get taken right out of the movie at several points. Too many instantly recognizable landmarks for me to believe it's "Gotham".
me too i see so much of chicago it just hard to see it as gotham
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:39 AM   #419
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Exactly. There is so much batman and I love all of it. It's life in movies is just heading the wrong way in my opinion.

I like the hard egded Batman, and Batman cross-overs are cool. Like this Batman/Spawn and Joker/Violator art.

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Old 11-02-2010, 03:46 PM   #420
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Maybe its not Catwoman? Still, take these as rumors...

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/11/02/batman-rumors/

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Take this with a truck full of salt, but the rumor goes that Charlize Theron has been offered the role of Sarah Essen, and that Kacie Thomas and Vera Farmiga have auditioned for the role of Julie Madison. Why would those characters be noteworthy?

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Sarah Essen was invented by Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli as part of their Batman: Year One storyline, and is an officer with whom Jim Gordon (Gary Oldman) has a brief affair. In a later appearance, she and Gordon married. If she ends up in the film, that would suggest that we’ll see a bit more substantive material for Gordon as well, and that’s a good thing. Gary Oldman will love having meatier scenes, and I’d love to see him play them. And, sure, Charlize Theron would be right for the character.

Julie Madison, meanwhile, appeared in Detective Comics right after Batman made his own first appearance in the late ’30s. At the time, the character was engaged to Bruce Wayne and unaware of his alter-ego. She was menaced by the actor Basil Karlo, the first incarnation of Clayface, so the rumor of the character’s inclusion in the script for The Dark Knight Rises is already leading to speculation that Clayface will appear as well.

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Old 11-02-2010, 06:16 PM   #421
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I am loving the hell out of this. Including Sarah Essen and Julie Madison would be just way to awesome. How 'bout some Silver St. Cloud as well?
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:25 PM   #422
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Maybe its not Catwoman? Still, take these as rumors...

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/11/02/batman-rumors/

It's not catwoman.

It's Hugo Strange.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:54 PM   #423
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It's Hugo Strange.

Well, from your lips to God's ears. We have good reason to hope.

Also, I suppose that the potential inclusion of Essen gives further credence to the rumor of Tom Hardy as Harvey Bullock, what with the focus on Gordon that Essen implies.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:20 AM   #424
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Can a brotha get some Black Mask up in dis here movie?

I'd really like him to appear. I read he was in an early draft of The Dark Knight, so that tells me Nolan and company are at least familiar with the character. They could really play up the dual lives that Roman and Bruce share.
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Old 11-05-2010, 09:31 PM   #425
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y'know, there is one thing that happened in both movies that i think would be kinda cool to see in The Dark Knight Rises: remember in both movies when Batman fights the thugs with guns, and he takes the arm of one guy with a pistol and shoots the other thug in the foot? in Batman Begins, it was at the same scene when Batman gives Crane "A taste of his own medicine", and in The Dark Knight, it was when Batman captures Lau in his office building. remember what im talking about??
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