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Old 09-27-2013, 07:21 PM   #1
RKORadio
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Would TOD have better if Short Round was a girl

I mean this just occured to me as i was watching it today. Imagine it: a kick-ass Asian little girl would provide a great contrast with the cowardly Willie.
As it is, the only women we really see in the story are "greatful" mothers who are overjoyed when Indy returns their children to them, and Willie's back up singers.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:31 AM   #2
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Indy having a daughter might have made Kingdom Of the Crystal Skull better, but I really don't think Short Round being a girl would improve Temple of Doom.

It's already a little unrealistic Shorty would bee as effective of a sidekick as he is in real life, making a young girl as effective would be even more so.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #3
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It might have made the character a bit more interesting, and indeed it was talking about to make Indy's sidekick a princess, but they change it for some reason.

I think short round needed to be a boy to connect with Indy.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurlock
It might have made the character a bit more interesting, and indeed it was talking about to make Indy's sidekick a princess, but they change it for some reason.
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate." ...What could they possibly be implying?
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:07 AM   #5
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I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

Not saying Indy would be like that, I think it would just be in better interest if that possible thought was destroyed.
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurlock
I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

Not saying Indy would be like that, I think it would just be in better interest if that possible thought was destroyed.

I doubt that thought would've entered most people's minds. Is that how some people think? That a grown man can't be around a small girl without accusations being slung around?
Sure, Marion was young when she and Indy porked, but a 10 year old girl? Nah.

Anyway, I don't think it would've made Doom any better. I love it just the way that it is. Indiana already had one female tagging along, and even if the girl could have held her own, we already seen the cliched tough-female type in Marion previously.
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Phlip
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate." ...What could they possibly be implying?

This afternoon I've been watching Sonny Chiba's Street Fighter and Return of the Street Fighter (both 1974).

An odd coincidence but the idea of a female Short Round came up.

Chiba's character, Tsurugi, who fights like an animal (a bit like Indy) has a quirky young female sidekick called Pin Boke (Kitty) in the second film.

While he's working out, she's talking to him:

"If you hadn't picked me up when I was starving, where would I be?"

Then she turns to him, smiles, plays with her pigtails and attempts to seduce him clumsily, saying "I owe you a lot." She slips over and Tsurugi ignores her.

Going by his past form, Indy's potential young female sidekick might not have gotten off so lightly!
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #8
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The previous movie had some light (or not-so-light) implications with Marion that robbing the cradle was actually not beneath Indy, so some people might not have put it past him. Or at the very least made him the butt-end of some very unpleasant jokes.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbidden Eye
Indy having a daughter might have made Kingdom Of the Crystal Skull better, but I really don't think Short Round being a girl would improve Temple of Doom.

It's already a little unrealistic Shorty would bee as effective of a sidekick as he is in real life, making a young girl as effective would be even more so.

I dunno, you saying that having a kick-ass young girl sidekick is 'unrealistic' sounds sort of sexist (not saying you are, just saying that's how it sounds).

If anything, having Shorty be a girl would have helped balance out the overwhelmingly negative stereotype that Willie was, by giving audiences an example of a female who is loyal, brave and a competent fighter, age be damned. Hell, they could have made a running gag out of the idea of a full-grown woman character who acts like a child, and a child character who is more mature.

But alas, the film is done, released, and attained "underrated classic" status, so we will have to accept what we were given.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurlock
I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

"I was a child! I was in love!"

"You knew what you were doing."
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:27 PM   #11
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Meh, I still don't see Indy trying anything with a girl Short Round's age. Marion was older was she not?
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:56 PM   #12
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Well a grown man certainly can't admit to liking Shirley Temple films the way a grown woman can. It's a factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drifter
Is that how some people think? That a grown man can't be around a small girl without accusations being slung around?
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
Well a grown man certainly can't admit to liking Shirley Temple films the way a grown woman can. It's a factor.

Why not?
Because you'll label him? So, you can accuse ToD of being racist and insensitive toward the people of India, but yet you'll label a grown man for liking a Shirley Temple movie?
Are you for real?
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:15 PM   #14
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I'm not labelling anyone. I'm just saying the general public perception of a man who watches for example Shirley Temple films, is suspect.

I don't say it's justified or OK but it's reality.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I'm not labelling anyone. I'm just saying the general public perception of a man who watches for example Shirley Temple films, is suspect.

I don't say it's justified or OK but it's reality.

Not really.
Anyone who would suspect a man for watching Shirley Temple flicks have problems of their own.
I hate to do this, but I am going to use a video game for an example. The Last of Us has the hero traveling with a young girl throughout most of the game. In all the message boards that I have visited about the game, and the countless posts by masses of people; I never came across one post of anyone suspecting the main character of what you are implying. Not to say there isn't any out there, but most people didn't think that way.

I don't even think that I know of anyone personally who would throw that label at Indiana if Doom had a young girl instead of Shortie, and for sure none would 'suspect' a man watching Shirley Temple's Heidi.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:35 PM   #16
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I don't think the concerns about Indy running around with a 10 year old girl are warranted at all. In ToD, Indy, Willie and Shortround end up representing a (very dysfunctional) family unit anyway; it would have been the same if Shortround were a girl.

Alas, I can't imagine that would have happened back in 1984. Representation of women in Hollywood action movies wasn't too crash hot back then (though I'm sure someone could dig out some examples to contradict that claim.)
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:20 AM   #17
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I presume the proposed 10 year old Asian Princess would have been from a fictional country (ala Ragaan in the 1990s Australian tv series Embassy)?

A kick-ass asian child Princess would have been a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" ( Tv Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast with "I want to go to Delhi!" Willie.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlip
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate."

Yet - they decided the Hindu stereotypes that were sure to incite racial backlash were A-Ok!
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I presume the proposed 10 year old Asian Princess would have been from a fictional country (ala Ragaan in the 1990s Australian tv series Embassy)?

A kick-ass asian child Princess would have been a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" (© Tv Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast with "I want to go to Delhi!" Willie.

Why are you all about sexism and racism? Every time I see your name on a thread I cringe because I know it will be more drivel about sexism or racism. Also, you don't ever push conversations forward. You either avoid questions and run or you just repeat yourself over and over. TOD would not be improved by a female character in place of Shorty. You would prefer if Indiana Jones was an Indian woman from what I can tell. Lets make all the heros Indian women and all the villians white men? Would that make it better?
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:29 PM   #20
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RKO is not here is to add anything to the enjoyment of the world of IJ. Her use of language is admirable: "...a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" (c TV Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast...." In fact, it seems extraordinary for a fourteen year old, not to mention her references to TV shows aired before she was born. She certainly has been reading a lot, sharpening up those literary critiquing skills, and catching up on previous decade's viewing.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:51 PM   #21
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How about Willie, would the character have been better if she was a he, and Short Round was a Short Roundette? Honestly that's the only way I could imagine Short Round being a girl would make sense. That way they'd still contrast each other.

But of course if Willie was a boy, they'd need to change her from a singer and dancer to something less... ga- out of place. And it'd be a lot of work to change everything. And lets not forget, there always needs to be a love interest, so you'd need the addition of another character.

Let's just say Short Roundette makes everything too complicated.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:53 PM   #22
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TOD was awesome and as good as Raiders, so no need for any changes. Thank you very much. Now as far as Last & the other one.... rom for man many improvemnts
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:14 PM   #23
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I know about the TV show Embassy for 2 reasons - one it was on the "Flags of the world" site on fictional countries flags and ive seen the show on old VHS copies

Besides you are talking to someone that could read when they were two
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurlock
How about Willie, would the character have been better if she was a he, and Short Round was a Short Roundette? Honestly that's the only way I could imagine Short Round being a girl would make sense. That way they'd still contrast each other.

But of course if Willie was a boy, they'd need to change her from a singer and dancer to something less... ga- out of place. And it'd be a lot of work to change everything. And lets not forget, there always needs to be a love interest, so you'd need the addition of another character.

Let's just say Short Roundette makes everything too complicated.

Agreed, the film is a mess as it is.

But still a gloriously badass mess!
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I know about the TV show Embassy for 2 reasons - one it was on the "Flags of the world" site on fictional countries flags and ive seen the show on old VHS copies

Besides you are talking to someone that could read when they were two

Isn't that just wonderful!
But, you still haven't gave reason why you continue to skirt around these issues that you bring up. You sling accusations around, and when someone disagrees, you ignore the very issues that you presented. What gives?

Quote:
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Agreed, the film is a mess as it is.
How is the film a mess as it is? I'n not saying you're wrong, as it's your opinion, but I'm just curious.
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