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Old 11-28-2007, 09:03 PM   #51
Indyologist
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Yeah, I remember saying in a thread long ago that I hoped that aliens wouldn't raise their ugly gray heads in Indy IV. Aliens are such a beaten-to-death cliche' that, to me, I feel that their presence would cheapen the Indy film. Maybe that's what Koepp was talking about when he said the fans (meaning us) were going to "hand him his a-s on a platter."

But, meh... who knows. It's already been made and it is what it is. I'll go see it even if E. T. himself shows up and gooses Marion.

E. T. "Maaaareeeeoooon..."
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:32 AM   #52
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At first when I heard of Aliens making a appearance in a Indiana Jones movie, I was disgusted. But the more I think of it, there is one way you could have them in there where they would fit. Imagine Indy is in this temple, which is also a alien spaceship. He sees a throne with 2 aliens sat on it. But they are only bodies. Long dead. It could work. I mean hell, we got golden boxes that shoot out ghosts, people ripping other peoples hearts out, and then healing itself and living, and a cup that heals any wound and grants eternal life. Aliens, at least the long dead bodies of aliens, isn't exactly that far fetched when you think of it now.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:22 AM   #53
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if it relates to archeology, the ancient astronauts or mayan "gods," could be acceptable for me.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:59 AM   #54
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The 1950s were the era for Saucer Mania! Why would it be surprising to see or hear alien allusions somewhere along the way in a movie based in those times? Maybe we'll see Indy scoff at this movie poster from 1957:

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Old 11-30-2007, 09:48 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipper
Wow, the alien in that poster... it's Morbo! Here's a bigger version:
http://www.progblog.de/uploads/filme...Saucer-Men.jpg
And here is Morbo for you:
http://losers.nnov.ru/files/morbo.gif
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:26 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Matinee Idyll
Does nobody else kinda like the idea of Indy in a temple in South America and on a couple of stone slabs are some decayed, mummified beings - with elongated limbs and strangely shaped skulls...

Absolutely. And considering this is an Indy film dealing with ancient cultures and archeology, I'm pretty sure we'll see something like that. Not like the ending of Close Encounters, even if they actually are the same aliens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishLuck1980
I mean hell, we got golden boxes that shoot out ghosts, people ripping other peoples hearts out, and then healing itself and living, and a cup that heals any wound and grants eternal life. Aliens, at least the long dead bodies of aliens, isn't exactly that far fetched when you think of it now.

Yes. And if all that worked (and it did), why wouldn't a cameo appearance with aliens, dead or living?

Got to say that as great as all those sequences are, there's also so much more in each film to remember them by.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:31 PM   #57
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My thoughts on some of the (controversial) facts and rumors:
- The story is set in 1957, in the age of science fiction and early space exploration. This makes the setting quite different from that of the other movies and a few scenes will probably reflect the spirit of the era. There's no question in my mind that this will be great if done right.
- The Atom bomb. This too could be great if done right. For example as part of an opening scene where Indy scrambles into a nuclear test site in the desert to save some artifact in before it is blown to smitherines in a nuclear test.
- Area 51. This location in itself is just fine, but whether it will work is highly dependent on the context. A few scenes set there don't necessarily have to deal with aliens and UFOs and if the location is instead connected to nuclear testing it could work out nicely. It depends.
- The Ark. We've heard rumors that this is in the movie as well. Apart from the Map Room theme that goes along with it (which is SO Indiana Jones), I just can't see how it can be integrated well into this movie, based on what we know about the storyline so far. The only way I could see it work is if they show it in the opening scene and disregard it for the rest of the movie somehow, sort of like the idol in Raiders.
- Aliens. If portrayed as mummified remains of ancient gods from the sky this could be turn out to be pretty cool. I don't really want to see living creatures from outer space in an Indiana Jones movie though.
- Aztec spaceship pyramid. Sounds like a really poor idea if you ask me. I fail to see how this can be done well, but if it's the only bump in the road of an otherwise great ride it won't matter too much.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:24 AM   #58
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I personally disagree. I don't think it's the same thing for me. At least, I think it would depend on the context.

That's absolutely my standpoint as well. I think there's a comfort level for the supernatural in the Indiana Jones movies- and everyone is going to have their own threshold. I think what attracts people to the IJ movies is that by and large they are action/adventure movies taking place in the real world, where hints at the supernatural are an uncommon experience, even for Indy. If you look at RAIDERS, Indy seems as surprised as anyone that the ark and it's supernatural power. In fact, they way I'd always read RAIDERS (until I knew that DOOM came before it) was that the ark was Indy's first brush with the supernatural. The early parts of RAIDERS certainly don't lead the audience to believe that Indiana is anything less than highly skeptical of the ark's power- "I'm going after a find of huge archeological significance and you're talking about the boogyman!". Taken on it's own, RAIDERS reads like a Republic serial meets Twilight Zone.

So, once we see more and more supernatural elements (Shankara Stones in DOOM, Grail in CRUSADE), my tolerance level for just how much supernatural there is in Indy's world increases. And I guess some people perceive more of a split between religious supernaturalism and aliens than I do. As long as aliens are treated the same way that the religious supernaturalism is in the first 3 movies- a power that few are aware of, and that Indy doesn't completely understand, then they serve the same function.

I think a lot of the suppositions you make about how aliens are integrated into the story are just that. And until we see more of the movie it's hard to tell exactly how integrated aliens will be into the entire story- they may only be a maguffin that appear at the end of the movie. Who knows?
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:37 AM   #59
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WOW, you kinda took the words that I would have said, lol. But I do agree, if they keep it to were Indy doesn't understand it like he does in the other films then I'm fine with it. But if they turn this film around making it all Sci-Fi, then I'm not sure how I'll like it then.
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:32 PM   #60
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I Agree, as crazy as it might sound to some people, I think we might tend to think of god, supernatural powers, and legends such as the grail as more real than beings from another planet.

If the film suggests alien involvement with earths past civilizations, or even alien bones towards the end of the film then I wouldnt have a problem.

However, I think I speak for all of us when i say we dont want any living CGI aliens walking around in the film and talking to Indy is english....................I dont want jar jar binks appearing at the end of the film, or E.T, or a "Grey" who approaches indy from a flying saucer, shaking his hand, and saying "your species are not ready yet" type statement before flying off and leaving us with the credits.

I dont think Indy 4 will be like this at all and I have full confidence that Spielberg will produce what we all want. It probably wont meet the expectations of some (beating the previous films) but it wont be the worst either and it will just give us another great Indy experience.

Whatever happens, I know when I visit this board in June next year, either there will be some members (who we all know) who will say "It was sh*t, and I told you so" or the film will be great and we will all be calling for Indy 5 before Harrison starts using a walking stick.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:09 AM   #61
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An useless bit of trivia about Close Encounters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Paul Schrader wrote the first-draft script for Close Encounters, entitled Kingdom Come.

If the alien puppets really do make a cameo appearance in KotCS, that's a funny little thing linking the two movies.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:29 PM   #62
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I can live w/ dead aliens on an altar but if a maiyan temple rips itself from the ground and takes off twoards jupiter you better believe im driving right to Mr. Lucas's house to punch him in the mouth.

On another note there better not be some cave challange where he has to play that tune from close encounters that richard dreyfus figures out. I mean hey while were at it lets have Indy fight Bruce the Shark and then he can go get Shindler's List. Or maybe he can Save Private Ryan or get revenge on the Munich terrorists.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Deckard
I can live w/ dead aliens on an altar but if a maiyan temple rips itself from the ground and takes off twoards jupiter you better believe im driving right to Mr. Lucas's house to punch him in the mouth.

On another note there better not be some cave challange where he has to play that tune from close encounters that richard dreyfus figures out. I mean hey while were at it lets have Indy fight Bruce the Shark and then he can go get Shindler's List. Or maybe he can Save Private Ryan or get revenge on the Munich terrorists.


HA!!

Don't hit him too hard or his Chin may flop back and hit you on the rebound.

I have to say, He will deserve it if the temple is a space ship....a dead Alien would be ......O.K.??? Maybe? Yea, I can go with that like the Crusader.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:40 PM   #64
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As the debate goes on, I will reiterate that I think the concept of aliens themselves is inherently OK. Yes, it has potential to be really bad, but as others have said so did the 800 year old knight. That was handled beautifully, IMO. It had an atmosphere of awe and seriousness, which was balanced with that great line of humor ("He chose...poorly."). I'm confident if aliens do somehow make an appearance it will receive the same cautious attention, and Spielberg will use his supreme command of craft to make it work.

One way I can see it working is similar to Marion stumbling into the room full of corpses in Raiders--something that's brief but definitely makes an impression. Indy could sneak into a room in Area 51 (or whatever military base set they built), and have a sudden awe-struck, terrified encounter with some Close Encounters aliens..maybe dead on a table, or perhaps alive behind a pane of glass...and as that brief moment of terror peaks he's yanked out of the room by a Russian officer, who has a snarky line that brings things quickly back to "reality." It might only be 5 seconds of screen time for the aliens.

Last edited by commontone : 12-06-2007 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:37 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commontone
As the debate goes on, I will reiterate that I think the concept of aliens themselves is inherently OK. Yes, it has potential to be really bad, but as others have said so did the 800 year old knight. That was handled beautifully, IMO. It had an atmosphere of awe and seriousness, which was balanced with that great line of humor ("He chose...poorly."). I'm confident if aliens do somehow make an appearance it will receive the same cautious attention, and Spielberg will use his supreme command of craft to make it work.

My thoughts exactly!
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:52 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Zorg
My thoughts exactly!


I think we are ALL thinking that if handled with care it would fit in quite well with the other movies. However, If the Pyramid shoots off to outer space, That would be like the Knight getting up and fighing Like Yoda in Episode 2.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:21 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by tnswman
I think we are ALL thinking that if handled with care it would fit in quite well with the other movies. However, If the Pyramid shoots off to outer space, That would be like the Knight getting up and fighing Like Yoda in Episode 2.

Even that could be underplayed. If the characters are inside the pyramid for most of it, with walls shifting and closing everywhere- then by the time they exit a tunnel entrance they turn and see this giant hole in the ground where they pyramid once stood. Then they look up and see this giant pyramid silhouette floating in the sky. Then- with a flash- it's gone.

All it will take is a bit of finesse to make these things work. As long as they're not obvious about it, it won't read as "sci-fi" but more like a twilight-zone episode where you're motivated to think a bit more broadly about the world around you, where not everything has a rational answer.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by 11thIndian
Even that could be underplayed. If the characters are inside the pyramid for most of it, with walls shifting and closing everywhere- then by the time they exit a tunnel entrance they turn and see this giant hole in the ground where they pyramid once stood. Then they look up and see this giant pyramid silhouette floating in the sky. Then- with a flash- it's gone.

All it will take is a bit of finesse to make these things work. As long as they're not obvious about it, it won't read as "sci-fi" but more like a twilight-zone episode where you're motivated to think a bit more broadly about the world around you, where not everything has a rational answer.


Indiana Jones does not need to mirror the Twilight Zone.. Indy should maintain it's own reality.. and with any reality, some things can push the barriers too far....The bad part is that Lucas really thinks some of his bad ideas are REALLY good. Even a bad idea that would be handled great by Steven and the crew could still be silly and "off"
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:28 PM   #69
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Well, all of this adds to the excitement when the lights go out in the movie theater on May 22.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:43 PM   #70
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Imagine if the internet boards were around during the production of ET. What would you say if you were told, "There will be a sequence where the boy is riding his bike with ET, and ET uses his powers to launch them into the air, so he's riding his bike across the sky."

Sounds pretty lame in synopsis, doesn't it? But it's become an iconic image, that of the bike flying across the full moon.

Spielberg is great at that stuff. But if you *still* think the above part in ET is lame, well, it probably doesn't matter how the pyramid is done, you probably won't be into it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:44 PM   #71
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by commontone
Imagine if the internet boards were around during the production of ET. What would you say if you were told, "There will be a sequence where the boy is riding his bike with ET, and ET uses his powers to launch them into the air, so he's riding his bike across the sky."

Sounds pretty lame in synopsis, doesn't it? But it's become an iconic image, that of the bike flying across the full moon.

Spielberg is great at that stuff. But if you *still* think the above part in ET is lame, well, it probably doesn't matter how the pyramid is done, you probably won't be into it.
veeeeeryy well put.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:05 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commontone
Imagine if the internet boards were around during the production of ET. What would you say if you were told, "There will be a sequence where the boy is riding his bike with ET, and ET uses his powers to launch them into the air, so he's riding his bike across the sky."

Sounds pretty lame in synopsis, doesn't it? But it's become an iconic image, that of the bike flying across the full moon.

Spielberg is great at that stuff. But if you *still* think the above part in ET is lame, well, it probably doesn't matter how the pyramid is done, you probably won't be into it.

well said sir.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:44 AM   #73
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I'm pretty certain that the entire pyramid will not fly away at the end. A couple of months ago, I posted my could-kinda-sorta-be plot summary where I tried to tie together all known information. If anyone remembers that, which I doubt you do, I made mention that the Aztecs and Mayans built their temples around already existing previous temples - with each new incarnation being larger and taller than the last. They didn't demolish them and start over from ground zero. Lucas has said that they try to tie in historical fact in everything they do Indy related, and keeping all this in mind, what if the Mayans simply built their temple around and on top of an already existing spaceship? The most sacred innards of the temple would actually be the interior of this ship.

OMG dood, that would suck!!!11 Spaceshipz doo not belung in Indy Jonez!! LOL!!1 You r an idot!

Well. You know. With a few sacks of acme dust and vines draping everything, I bet you almost wouldn't notice. Maybe the architecture of the Mayans is taken from the decoration of the spaceship because they regarded it as a vehicle of the gods. In this way, everything would retain that Meso-American, old world Indy look. As an added bonus, it would actually make sense this time when the crew has to exit the temple in a hurry because everything is tumbling in around them. Outside, they see the ship crowning out of the temple and sloughing off tons of quarried limestone rocks.

And these Close Encounters aliens?

Like it has already been mentioned, if they appear, it will almost certainly be in the same fashion as that R2D2 and C3PO "cameo" in Raiders.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:12 PM   #74
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That's right: The Entire pyramid will NOT fly away at the end. We are talking about an Indiana Jones-Movie... part 4 of the greates movies ever made.
We don't talk about Stargate-BS... :-)
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:55 PM   #75
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I have faith that Spielberg will have the control as always in this movie. I trust his judgment. George Lucas on the other hand needs to just sit down and count his money.
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