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Old 06-03-2008, 05:42 PM   #101
James
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benraianajones
Also, not a deleted scene - but has anyone else here seen the promo movie pictures, where Marion and Mutt are on the motorbike in the Warehouse between all the boxes? Just found it interesting, since neither appear there.

Yeah, it's one that Annie Liebowitz took for the Vanity Fair article.
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:43 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor

I have to say, the stuff that appears in the novel, if any of it was filmed, it's a shame that it was cut from the film. If the pacing seemed right to me, I might say otherwise, but some more of the character bits would have helped this film along. It needed those quiet moments that were used for more than just exposition (although that was still pretty well done, just as it was back in the '80's).

I agree, in a way. I complained a lot about the lack of elaborate set pieces and/or action scenes in the last third of the film. But part of that complaint was indeed the overall lack of anything significant (or interesting in terms of inventiveness) Indy would do or be actively involved in during the last twenty minutes.
And in fact that problem ties right into the complete lack of development of the Indy-Mutt-Marion relationship(s) after the three major bickering scenes in the camp, in the sand and the truck.
It's bickering and dysfunctional family here and "sitting on his lap", "junior" and all-happy-family a couple of minutes later. I mean ...didn't Spielberg ...or Ford ...or Allen at one point think that maybe that was a little bit scarce?


Quote:
There's the Area 51 scene where Indy is held by two Russian soldiers, while Mac's life is being threatened. The scene is depicted on a trading card, and was also the first footage of the movie that was shared on the official site. (The footage just contained a second or two of Indy's reaction as he is restrained by the soldiers.)


This really sounds (and looked) too good. We must get our hands on this.

Last edited by torao : 06-03-2008 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:48 PM   #103
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Oh, yeah, that was that dolly-in towards Indy -shot wasn't it?
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:26 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by torao
And in fact that problem ties right into the complete lack of development of the Indy-Mutt-Marion relationship(s) after the three major bickering scenes in the camp, in the sand and the truck.
It's bickering and dysfunctional family here and "sitting on his lap", "junior" and all-happy-family a couple of minutes later. I mean ...didn't Spielberg ...or Ford ...or Allen at one point think that maybe that was a little bit scarce?

I agree here- considering the grudge held for all those years the first time around, Marion certainly gave up a bigger, 20 year bone with Indy awful fast. One "they weren't you, Honey" and she's swooning. At least Mutt didn't come around quite that quickly- but it was still fast for everyone.

On one hand, on an "epic" level, I see it as appropriate- they're older, have just found each other again after many years, and he's pretty much admitted that she's been the only one for him, ever- but still, I would have preferred a bit more characterization. One boon to these movies for me has always been the human side of relationships that's always been done well, in addition to the action and adventure- this last installment had both, but needed a bit more to flesh it out.

If the book has more fully fleshed character drama in it, I will be happy to buy it for myself, to augment the story as it is on film.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:15 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yure
Some of the pictures from the motorbike chase showed Harrison driving the bike... were those just promotional shot or is there a deleted scene with Indy driving?

I also I missed such a scene in the movie. Because, we saw Harrison driving the bike on YouTube.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:59 PM   #106
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Just noticed one of the novel's scenes is included in the trading card set:

Spalko and Mac
One plot point is that the skull will not communicate with Spalko, which frustrates her. During the convoy, she takes the skull from Oxley, who tries to get it back. Mac then watches as she attempts to stare into it. He doesn't believe in the psychic nonsense and she tells him of psionic experiments the USSR has been performing.

In one, baby rabbits were taken on a submarine and systematically killed. The mother rabbit was left on the shore and monitored using an EEG. At the precise death of each, the mother registered a strong reaction. Spalko explains: "There is an organic mind-body link shared by all living creatures. If we could control that collective mind..."

Trading Card: Jungle Raiders

This gives us four deleted scenes that were filmed, and at least two that were dropped from the script. Anyone know of any further scenes included in the trading cards?

1. Mac's Life Threatened at Area 51
Seen in trading cards and video footage on official site

2. Indy Confronts Mac in Sedan
When Indy is pulled off the motorcycle and into the sedan, he discovers that Mac is among the occupants. This was edited out of the film, but is included in the trading cards: Pic.

3. Motorcycle Chase Through the Football Stadium
As noted in the "Complete Making Of" book, this scene was in the shooting script, but dropped once they got on location.

4. Cemetery Warrior Fight
Indy using his whip has been well documented, in promotional videos, photos, and the trading cards.

5. Burial Chamber Collapse
Mutt crashing through the floor can be seen in concept art, and the scene's editing makes it appear that the stunt was originally included. Not sure if any photos exist, though.

6. Mac and Spalko
The jungle scene, as noted above.

Last edited by James : 06-14-2008 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:41 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroc
Did anyone else notice that "teacher/part time" lines were delivered differently in the film than in the trailer??


it was brilliant in trailer.. but seemed a little flat in actual movie... i was kind of waiting on it though.. so thought at ime maybe i just heard it wrong.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:47 PM   #108
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Yeah he said it differently in the movie.

I can't wait for the DVD so I can watch all the deleted scenes. Hopefully they'll explain more about the CS and the ETs.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:47 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macca1980
it was brilliant in trailer.. but seemed a little flat in actual movie... i was kind of waiting on it though.. so thought at ime maybe i just heard it wrong.

Nah they were definately delivered differently. In the trailer he asserts it. In the film he just states it normally.
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:22 PM   #110
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2. Indy Confronts Mac in Sedan
When Indy is pulled off the motorcycle and into the sedan, he discovers that Mac is among the occupants. This was edited out of the film, but is included in the trading cards: Pic.
I suppose that the writing on the trading card is merely a mistake. The actor happens to look a bit like Winstone from behind, that's all. (We also mistook him for Winstone when we spotted him on some pics taken in New Haven a year ago.)
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:40 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torao
I suppose that the writing on the trading card is merely a mistake. The actor happens to look a bit like Winstone from behind, that's all. (We also mistook him for Winstone when we spotted him on some pics taken in New Haven a year ago.)

You could be right, since I wasn't really sure how Mac would've fit into the scene- even with editing. Am I correct to assume that the card reveals more of the fight than we saw in the finished film?
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:18 PM   #112
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Yeah, I don't get why they didn't use the whip scene in the cemetary.

?????

Thats good material Lucas.
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:48 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Part three:

Indy and Marion
Indy squeezed and later held Marion's hand during the duck escape, and here they lie beside each other after surviving the waterfall. Marion kids him about being tired, and says it's no wonder, considering the way he's always running all over the world. This prompts Indy to reply: "It ain't the mileage, honey, it's the years."

This exchange MADE the novel for me- I so wish it had been in the film. While I'm glad there weren't too many "old" jokes/gags throughout the film, this is one that needed to be there. I would have taken this one line over the entire revisit of the snake gag any day!
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:17 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by gear guardian
Yeah, I don't get why they didn't use the whip scene in the cemetary.

?????

Thats good material Lucas.

I think that whip scene involved Mutt's switchblade. They deleted or changed a lot of the knife action because they were going to have ratings trouble.



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Old 06-15-2008, 02:06 AM   #115
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Ratings trouble? Over a switchblade? If said blade was used to bloody and kill and maim, we might have issue, but the use of a knife does not automatically mean ratings trouble. All depends how its used.

I call shenanigans on that story.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:25 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gear guardian
Yeah, I don't get why they didn't use the whip scene in the cemetary.

?????

Thats good material Lucas.

Yes if there's one thing the film could do with it's more use of the whip. He uses it three times in the opening warehouse scene and then only once at the end. Cutting whip usage in the cemetary is crazy. That would have been a perfect time for old reliable to be put into use.
However I can quite believe the switchblade/ratings story. Bearing in mind that back in 1984 they cut the bit out in the UK where Indy raises the pick axe as if to strike the giant thugee guard because of the mere implication of violence. Nothing would surprise me in our modern nanny state.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:44 AM   #117
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On the soundtrack, it seems like there is a lot more fight that should have happened at the cemetary, including some music that sounds like falling. Now, I haven't read the novel, but in the comic there i one panel of Indy whipping some of the Cemetary warriors off a cliff. And the whole chunk that got cut out is apparent, it starts when Indy dives after the warrior with whip in hand and ends just before he reappears across the graveyard, pistol drawn. If I'm disappointed with anything in the movie at this point, it's the potential of this "lost scene". They should release a longer full cut on the DVD like the Lord of the Rings extended cuts
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:46 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow
They should release a longer full cut on the DVD like the Lord of the Rings extended cuts

I was actually thinking that myself. Since it's Indiana Jones I seriously doubt it but who knows, one day when Lucas decides he needs some cash, he might just give us the full cut. It's highly unlikely it'll happen on initial DvD release.
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:50 AM   #119
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Someone from the UK (can't remember where exactly) mentioned ratings were strict for knife violence and cuts are made depicting knife violence.

Mutt used his switchblade a lot more during shooting. There are pictures of him holding the bloody switchblade and brandishing it against enemies. They though it was fine to shoot these scenes, so I can only assume they changed their minds in the editing room to avoid ratings problems.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:04 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macca1980
it was brilliant in trailer.. but seemed a little flat in actual movie... i was kind of waiting on it though.. so thought at ime maybe i just heard it wrong.
no, it is definitely two different versions.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:02 PM   #121
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Another factor for the cemetery fight could've been pacing. In the film, it's a pretty fast-paced action scene, with the warriors flying in and out of frame. Maybe Spielberg decided that the whip moment slowed that momentum too much?

Anyway, just reading through the comic adaptation, and many of the scenes from the novel are included. This suggests that they were probably in the screenplay, and not among the stuff Rollins created for the novelization.

-The football stadium.
-During the flight, Indy teaches Mutt about the Nazca lines.
-The conquistador wrappings are made of the same material as the Roswell alien's wrapping.
-Indy cries tears of blood while looking at the skull.
-Spalko and Mac discuss the skull. The conclusion of this scene has Mac 'testing' Spalko's ESP. She replies, "If I feel the slightest need." We then learn that the question he was thinking of was, "Will Spalko cut my throat when we reach Akator?" (This exchange was also in the novelization.)
-Indy and Mac escape the throne room by running together, and Mac tries to convince Indy he's still on his side. Indy sums up Mac's character by saying, "It's whoever's in the room, isn't it, Mac?"

A few other things of note:

-During Indy's interrogation, he tells the FBI he has many friends in Washington. The FBI man simply replies, "Do you?" This is similar to the exchange that was in Darabont's script.

-At the end of Dean Stanforth's talk with Indy, he mentions that he wishes Indy had found the right woman. He then wonders if Indy ever did, and just didn't realize it at the time. (As Indy reacts, we see the whip and hat in the background.)

-When Indy gives his "we were at the University of Chicago" speech to Oxley, he mentions that they were both in Abner Ravenwood's class.

-During the finale, Indy explains that the aliens were teachers. This is why the skull spoke to him and Oxley, and why it refused to speak to Spalko. They sensed the same greed in her that the conquistadors had possessed.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:08 AM   #122
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Don't anyone think that these deleted scenes can be the saving grace for KOTCS. It has no chance or hope of being elevated to the heights of the original trilogy.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:10 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Mothy
Don't anyone think that these deleted scenes can be the saving grace for KOTCS. It has no chance or hope of being elevated to the heights of the original trilogy.

You are correct... in that no matter what they'd offered there would be some who'd argue that Indy's leather jacket in TOD was a better cut and more fitted than his cheap jacket in KOTCS...
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:21 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
-The football stadium.
-During the flight, Indy teaches Mutt about the Nazca lines.
-The conquistador wrappings are made of the same material as the Roswell alien's wrapping.
-Indy cries tears of blood while looking at the skull.
-Spalko and Mac discuss the skull. The conclusion of this scene has Mac 'testing' Spalko's ESP. She replies, "If I feel the slightest need." We then learn that the question he was thinking of was, "Will Spalko cut my throat when we reach Akator?" (This exchange was also in the novelization.)
-Indy and Mac escape the throne room by running together, and Mac tries to convince Indy he's still on his side. Indy sums up Mac's character by saying, "It's whoever's in the room, isn't it, Mac?"

All of this is great and really should have been put in, definitely in place of the distracting critter shots. Bah!
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:32 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Darth Vile
You are correct... in that no matter what they'd offered there would be some who'd argue that Indy's leather jacket in TOD was a better cut and more fitted than his cheap jacket in KOTCS...

or the temple crumbling down should have been a matte painting instead of CGI, so they could get a "sense of danger". Like Indiana Jones was going to die in an Indiana Jones movie, or something.
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