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Old 06-08-2008, 03:42 PM   #26
Stevens25
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I love the entire series. I've been a Spidey fan since I can remember and I've loved Venom since he came on the scene in the late 80's. Part 3 is a bit overstuffed but it was alot of fun and,unlike most action movies,it had heart. My major complaint is the lack of screentime and development for Venom/Eddie Brock.
Rumors of running would that Lizard and Kraven will be in part 4. I'd like to see Tobey,Kirsten and Sam return but at this point I'm not counting on it. By the end of part 3 they really seemed to be tired of doing the films,especially Kirsten,who wasn't exactly great promoting Spidey 3.
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Old 06-08-2008, 04:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stevens25
I love the entire series. I've been a Spidey fan since I can remember and I've loved Venom since he came on the scene in the late 80's. Part 3 is a bit overstuffed but it was alot of fun and,unlike most action movies,it had heart. My major complaint is the lack of screentime and development for Venom/Eddie Brock.
Rumors of running would that Lizard and Kraven will be in part 4. I'd like to see Tobey,Kirsten and Sam return but at this point I'm not counting on it. By the end of part 3 they really seemed to be tired of doing the films,especially Kirsten,who wasn't exactly great promoting Spidey 3.
According to the Spidey 3 commentary, the original idea for #3 was to have Ben Kingsley play Vulture. That could have been cool. It's okay to have two villains in one film as long as they don't partner up, that always fails. They should have one villain to start the film and another to end it, but somehow make them tie together without having the villains plotting revenge together for a finale.

Maybe they could have the new one start with Kraven coming to NY to hunt the rumored "Giant Lizard". While hunting through the city streets Kraven runs into Spidey who's trying to stop him because his hunting tactics put civilians in danger, but then Kraven now wants to hunt Spidey instead. Up to this point, Spidey will not have seen the Lizard yet. By the middle of the film Spidey eventually gets Kraven out of the way with the unexpected help of the Lizard. Spidey now has to get the Lizard and finds out it's Dr. Conners. Rather than Mary Jane or yet another girlfiend of Peter's being held as a victim in the end, Dr. Conners could have his wife hostage (similar to the comic). This would create an emotional scene in the finale since Spidey doesn't want to hurt him as he's a mentor of his (similar to the end of SM2).

They also need a better effects company like ILM (Transformers and Iron Man were awesome). Other than the Sandman transformation scene, Spidey 3 had lackluster effects, especially when Harry and Peter are fighting in the alley and when black Spidey and Sandman are fighting in the subway. Some of the crapiness took me out of the scene. I don't know how it got worse when Dr. Octopus was so cool looking in #2. I guess they rushed it all.

I like Raimi and most of what he did, but after 3 movies it's needs a new perspective to give it some "juice". They should get a whole new cast and get more serious with the films. Spider-Man is the star no matter who's in it. As long as Peter is cast right then there'll be no worries. No more Mary Jane and the puppy love crap. Mary Jane was presented as a selfish b!tch in all of the films, especially 3. Peter's saving lives and stuff while going to school and working and is barely able to make rent and she's upset she doesn't get enough attention! By the end I didn't care whether she'd fall from a building or not. I like Gwen better anyways. It would be nice to have a Spidey film not so dependent on girlfriend issues. I watch movies for escapism, not to re-hash my high school relationships.

Call the new ones the "Amazing" or "Spectacular" Spider-Man, in the same way this new Hulk is now the "Incredible" Hulk. Let people know it's new, but not a total do-over.

EDIT: Oh, a new theme would be cool too. I'd like to see John Williams attempt to do a new hero score. If not for Spidey then maybe Captain America (with all of the patriotic music he's written, he's got to be the #1 candidate for that!). Most of the films he's scored lately are dramas or in the case of SW and IJ relied on re-used themes. Something new and adventurous would be cool!

Last edited by sandiegojones : 06-08-2008 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sandiegojones
According to the Spidey 3 commentary, the original idea for #3 was to have Ben Kingsley play Vulture. That could have been cool. It's okay to have two villains in one film as long as they don't partner up, that always fails. They should have one villain to start the film and another to end it, but somehow make them tie together without having the villains plotting revenge together for a finale.

Maybe they could have the new one start with Kraven coming to NY to hunt the rumored "Giant Lizard". While hunting through the city streets Kraven runs into Spidey who's trying to stop him because his hunting tactics put civilians in danger, but then Kraven now wants to hunt Spidey instead. Up to this point, Spidey will not have seen the Lizard yet. By the middle of the film Spidey eventually gets Kraven out of the way with the unexpected help of the Lizard. Spidey now has to get the Lizard and finds out it's Dr. Conners. Rather than Mary Jane or yet another girlfiend of Peter's being held as a victim in the end, Dr. Conners could have his wife hostage (similar to the comic). This would create an emotional scene in the finale since Spidey doesn't want to hurt him as he's a mentor of his (similar to the end of SM2).

They also need a better effects company like ILM (Transformers and Iron Man were awesome). Other than the Sandman transformation scene, Spidey 3 had lackluster effects, especially when Harry and Peter are fighting in the alley and when black Spidey and Sandman are fighting in the subway. Some of the crapiness took me out of the scene. I don't know how it got worse when Dr. Octopus was so cool looking in #2. I guess they rushed it all.

I like Raimi and most of what he did, but after 3 movies it's needs a new perspective to give it some "juice". They should get a whole new cast and get more serious with the films. Spider-Man is the star no matter who's in it. As long as Peter is cast right then there'll be no worries. No more Mary Jane and the puppy love crap. Mary Jane was presented as a selfish b!tch in all of the films, especially 3. Peter's saving lives and stuff while going to school and working and is barely able to make rent and she's upset she doesn't get enough attention! By the end I didn't care whether she'd fall from a building or not. I like Gwen better anyways. It would be nice to have a Spidey film not so dependent on girlfriend issues. I watch movies for escapism, not to re-hash my high school relationships.

Call the new ones the "Amazing" or "Spectacular" Spider-Man, in the same way this new Hulk is now the "Incredible" Hulk. Let people know it's new, but not a total do-over.

EDIT: Oh, a new theme would be cool too. I'd like to see John Williams attempt to do a new hero score. If not for Spidey then maybe Captain America (with all of the patriotic music he's written, he's got to be the #1 candidate for that!). Most of the films he's scored lately are dramas or in the case of SW and IJ relied on re-used themes. Something new and adventurous would be cool!

One of the major things that did bother me about part 3 is the villain team up. Venom wants to kill and humiliate Spider-man/Peter Parker by himself and he's never wanted help. Especially in part 3,Venom was kicking Spidey's ass all over the place. Why would he team up with anyone? And why would Sandman,who's a decent guy inside,want to team up with this "monster" he just met and doesn't trust?
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Stevens25
One of the major things that did bother me about part 3 is the villain team up. Venom wants to kill and humiliate Spider-man/Peter Parker by himself and he's never wanted help. Especially in part 3,Venom was kicking Spidey's ass all over the place. Why would he team up with anyone? And why would Sandman,who's a decent guy inside,want to team up with this "monster" he just met and doesn't trust?

In the novelization AND the video game, Venom comes to Sandman and tells him to help kill Spidey. When Sandman refuses, Venom reveals that he's kidnapped Sandman's daughter and will kill her if Sandman doesn't help. Thus leading to their "partnership". I wish they would've done something like this in the film.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:31 PM   #30
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In the novelization AND the video game, Venom comes to Sandman and tells him to help kill Spidey. When Sandman refuses, Venom reveals that he's kidnapped Sandman's daughter and will kill her if Sandman doesn't help. Thus leading to their "partnership". I wish they would've done something like this in the film.
That would have been more effective. But I don't really think that would have made any serious impact on improving the film... the film was just mucked up, through and through.

This really sums it up:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HoNgMVFQNBI
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DocWhiskey
In the novelization AND the video game, Venom comes to Sandman and tells him to help kill Spidey. When Sandman refuses, Venom reveals that he's kidnapped Sandman's daughter and will kill her if Sandman doesn't help. Thus leading to their "partnership". I wish they would've done something like this in the film.
They should have just stuck with Sandman and not gone the black Spider-Man/Venom route. Venom just never worked for me. Especially with Topher Grace, although that (what you stated from the book) would have been a better story line in the film. Venom looks cool as art but is just a character that doesn't translate to film. Green Goblin is kinda like that too although I think they did the best they could with him. Dr. Octopus is the best villain. Electro (or Shocker), Lizard or Mysterio could be done too, but Rhino and Venom/Carnage and Vulture are too far out I think.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:44 AM   #32
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They should have just stuck with Harry. I'm sorry, the way they handled the last part of his story arc was just lame. Both Spidey 1 and 2 leave off with hints of what's to come, and in one (crappy) action scene, he bonks his head and has amnesia? No, I'm sorry, that was stupid. I'm no fan of the comic so not sure what becomes of Harry in there, but this was lame. Sandman should have been left out of it, Gwen Stacey should have been left out of it, and Eddie Brock should have just been introduced for a sequel, not introduced, turned to the darkside, and killed off shortly thereafter! LAME!!!

I'm for a reboot in the future (I'm talking 5-10 years) called "The Amazing Spider-Man" and to have it less silly. I liked the goofy humor Raimi used, but if they're rebooting it, let's have a different take on the character.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by sandiegojones
Electro (or Shocker), Lizard or Mysterio could be done too, but Rhino and Venom/Carnage and Vulture are too far out I think.

What exactly makes a guy with a horn on his head farther out there then a guy with a fishbowl head? Plus just so you know, Electro and Shocker don't have the same abilities. That’s somewhat of a misconception. The Shocker is named after shockwaves and/or sound waves; not electricity. His gauntlets shoot out a concentrated blast of air that causes extreme vibrations. Electro and Shocker are very different.

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Old 06-09-2008, 11:42 AM   #34
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What exactly makes a guy with a horn on his head farther out there then a guy with a fishbowl head or giant gecko? Plus just so you know, Electro and Shocker don't have the same abilities. Thatís somewhat of a misconception. The Shocker is named after shockwaves and/or sound waves; not electricity. His gauntlets shoot out a concentrated blast of air that causes extreme vibrations. Electro and Shocker are very different.
The names are pretty close from a marketing standpoint. I know the difference between the two, but I wouldn't suggest using both in one or even multiple films. You have to pick one or the other I think. Unless maybe you were to have "An electrifying sequel with a shocking twist!"

Mysterio would work because he's got no real power. He's a guy pretending to have powers so the costume works as a joke I think. It's a costume with no real function, he's almost like a Batman villain. Lizard is plausible on film since we have characters like the Hulk and others who make transformations (kind of like a werewolf). The Rhino is just silly, even in the comic. On film I think he'd be ridiculous, it'd be hard to believe that a costume could do the damage Rhino does. Same goes for the Scorpion, except the tail could be done similar to the Dr. Ock effect so it might work.

I think they've already used the best villains. Spider-Man's villains are good, but not necessarily in a movie. Batman is fortunate to have more realistic villains since they're usually just crazy and do not have super powers. The Kraven and Lizard storyline appears to be the most plausible right now. unless they can find a "real" Kingpin!
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:20 PM   #35
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I just re-watched Spider-man 3 and it's not so bad. I only saw twice before. There's too much going on but I think Mary Jane/Dunst is the real problem. A couple of here selfish "attention" scenes could have been used to establish Venom better.

If they stick with the same cast, I think they can easily jettison Dunst in #4 by having her get a big acting break in LA and Peter unable to go because NY needs Spidey. They've already established Gwen and Betty Brant so they should use them. I like Elizabeth Banks and Bryce Howard. With Dunst and Franco out of the picture Tobey can build new chemistry with other actors. Maybe they can have Gwen get killed like in the comic (except in a different way since they did a similar scene in #1) and go for real drama and anguish in Peter. He will have lost Mary Jane in the beginning and Gwen in the end, maybe Dr. Conners dies too if the Lizard is the villain (they could tie them together since Gwen is in Dr. Conners class). Maybe Kraven kills the Lizard and Gwen in the process? It could set up a good 5th film!
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:48 PM   #36
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:23 AM   #37
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The Lizard is my second favorite villain after Venom,of course. He's a sure bet for part 4 but I wanna see him as a vicious cold blooded reptile. Since Raimi failed with making Venom scary(he is obviously a pretty terrifying monster),then creating a scary Lizard could give Spidey 4 a bit more edge to it.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:01 AM   #38
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I think the reason one villain works for 1 and 2 is the villains were bigger, more well known. Sandman's story was ok. Venom was horribly mis-used and I can't imagine they will tackle him again this soon which makes Lizard the obvious choice imo. The thing is Lizard rarely is as threatening as say Venom, because deep in him is Connors, Peter's friend, mentor, teacher and even he doesn't like that he has become Lizard. Where as Venom even at his "core" as Brock still flat out Hates Spiderman and wants him dead. So I think to really make it more threatening they should bring in a 2nd Villain, Kraven seems to be the best choice to be hunting Connors. But Connors still has that symbiote and I have to think it's too good too waist and we'll get another Venom or Carnage in 5.

I just like the idea of more grounded villains like Black Cat or Mysterio but they seem to be going the entirely opposite way w/ a man who mutates into a lizard or a space creature.

Also can we all agree, no one can or should replace J.K. Simmons as Jameson?
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:23 AM   #39
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The concept of the Lizard is similar to the 50's movie "The Fly". Plus in this casr Peter has a relationship with Dr. Conners which is by Dr. Ock worked so well. If for most of the film Peter is unaware that Dr. Conners is the Lizard then they could have the Lizard be pretty brutal, therefore making it a devastating shock when he finds out. They also already have the perfect actor for Kraven....Bruce Campbell!
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:28 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by sandiegojones
If for most of the film Peter is unaware that Dr. Conners is the Lizard then they could have the Lizard be pretty brutal, therefore making it a devastating shock when he finds out. They also already have the perfect actor for Kraven....Bruce Campbell!

Campbell is PERFECT for Mysterio. He has mysteriously popped up at some of the most important moments in Peter's life. When he first makes his debut and Bruce freakin named him! Then in 2 he screws Peter because he won't let him get in the theatre to see Mary Jane. Then in 3 he witnessed Peter fail at proposing, he should pop up and reveal he's been folowing him all along and have some big speech only to end up doing himself in.

For Kraven I vote for Mickey Rourke!
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:50 AM   #41
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Venom is my all time favorite(and Spidey's greatest foe,imo)and I find the whole saga of the symbiote/Brock and black suit Spidey very fascinating and a wonderfully dark and tragic kinda story. Venom/Brock was REALLY misused in Spidey 3,but I think his character got screwed over so much that I don't think we'll see him again untill the series gets rebooted. If anything he completes the unholy 3 of Spidey's greatest villains(Doc Ock,Green Goblin and Venom). He deserved a much better story and a much better fate then he got in Spidey 3.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:50 AM   #42
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Tick-Tock...

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22781
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:15 AM   #43
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Makes ZERO sense. Spider-Man is a proven draw already. Why this need to always secure a release date before everything else? Don't they see how half-assed the rushed Spider-Man 3 turned out?!
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:32 AM   #44
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Makes ZERO sense. Spider-Man is a proven draw already. Why this need to always secure a release date before everything else? Don't they see how half-assed the rushed Spider-Man 3 turned out?!

Apparently not. Is the script even finished? I started this thread about three weeks back with Raimi stating that a screenplay is months off yet.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:23 PM   #45
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Makes ZERO sense. Spider-Man is a proven draw already. Why this need to always secure a release date before everything else? Don't they see how half-assed the rushed Spider-Man 3 turned out?!
They did it with Spider-Man 2 and it worked, but apparently they had worked on a Dr. Ock story for SM1. For #3 they had to pick a villain and then were forced to use a second (Venom) which is what screwed up the plot.

All of the rushed Marvel films are sub-par - Daredevil, X-Men 3, Fantastic Four.

I just hope they get rid of Kirsten Dunst.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:18 PM   #46
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What other villians are yet to be used?


carnage, becuase what about the symbonite Dr. conners still has, and the lizard, because dr. connors lost his arm and trys to grow it back by using somekind of lizard technology! and it grows his arm back but makes him a giant evil lizard.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:41 PM   #47
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carnage, becuase what about the symbonite Dr. conners still has, and the lizard, because dr. connors lost his arm and trys to grow it back by using somekind of lizard technology! and it grows his arm back but makes him a giant evil lizard.
Carnage should never be used. Venom never should have either!

Some villians just don't work well on screen. Sandman could have been really cool if they had devoted more screen time to him.

I was never a Green Goblin fan. Dr. Ock is the best and translated that way on film. The Lizard would work, so would Mysterio maybe Shocker or Electro.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:53 PM   #48
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Personally I hate Carnage. I absolutely loathe him. The Lizard is a given. Why would you put Carnage in the same film? Why not make villains that actually mesh? Personally I say Kraven the Hunter. Have rumors of a giant Lizard man in New York. This brings Kraven the Hunter to come and hunt him. Kraven stumbles upon Spider-Man battling the Lizard. Spider-Man defeats him and thusly Spider-Man is now the top hunt. Kraven now tracks Spider-Man.

Last edited by MaxPhactor23 : 06-23-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:02 PM   #49
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Personally I hate Carnage. I absolutely loathe him. The Lizard is a given. Why would you put Carnage in the same film? Why not make villains that actually mesh? Personally I say Kraven the Hunter. Have rumors of a giant Lizard man in New York. This brings Kraven the Hunter to come and hunt him. Kraven stumbles upon Spider-Man battling the Lizard. Spider-Man defeats him and thusly Spider-Man is now the top hunt. Kraven not tracks Spider-Man.

whats wrong with carnage?
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:20 PM   #50
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Personally I hate Carnage. I absolutely loathe him. The Lizard is a given. Why would you put Carnage in the same film? Why not make villains that actually mesh? Personally I say Kraven the Hunter. Have rumors of a giant Lizard man in New York. This brings Kraven the Hunter to come and hunt him. Kraven stumbles upon Spider-Man battling the Lizard. Spider-Man defeats him and thusly Spider-Man is now the top hunt. Kraven now tracks Spider-Man.

I like that. I couldn't think of a way that Kraven could logically fit into SM 4 till now.
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