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Old 01-31-2010, 06:36 PM   #76
lairdo
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Mac is certainly referring to WWII. As for when Mac and Indy spied on the Reds - well, I think that's left up in the air. It could have been in WWII or just after. I would make a guess that Indy is not in the army in 1947 because it sounds like he was dragged from somewhere else. Can't really say that for sure, but the way Indy relates the Roswell incident, he infers he was pulled in from the outside. Of course, he couldn't have been drafted back during the 1950's too.

Lucas borrowing/reusing/stealing from himself is common. Indy, as mentioned in this post, is full of discarded ideas resurfacing later. And Clone Wars is absolutely that way too. It's just how he thinks and works.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:32 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by lairdo
Mac is certainly referring to WWII. As for when Mac and Indy spied on the Reds - well, I think that's left up in the air. It could have been in WWII or just after. I would make a guess that Indy is not in the army in 1947 because it sounds like he was dragged from somewhere else. Can't really say that for sure, but the way Indy relates the Roswell incident, he infers he was pulled in from the outside. Of course, he couldn't have been drafted back during the 1950's too.

It's great that you're here, Lairdo, to set us straight!

When Mac said "double agents in Berlin" I immediately had images of the early Cold War, and all those John Le Carre style novels of spies leading double lives in the post-war Soviet Sector of the city. At any time up to 1949 the city could be referred to as Berlin (as opposed to East or West Berlin). Yet, spying on the Reds during wartime would have been just as relevant, as Stalin was an uneasy bedfellow for the allies - and Churchill at least feared that the Red Machine would not stop moving west once it reached Germany.

The life of Indiana Jones is such a fertile ground for more stories - I would really love to see his WW2 exploits, but will have to make do with imagining 'Force 10 from Navarone' as an Indy story!
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:57 AM   #78
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I prefer to think that Indy spied only during WW2, not after. In 1945 he worked again as archaeologist.

It's interesting that he had a past as spy, like Connery's Bond and that was the origin of the concept of Indiana Jones in 1977.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:46 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Wilhelm
I prefer to think that Indy spied only during WW2, not after. In 1945 he worked again as archaeologist.

It's interesting that he had a past as spy, like Connery's Bond and that was the origin of the concept of Indiana Jones in 1977.

I agree that it's more satisying to think that Indy was only a spy during wartime for the benefits of the war effort, rather than during the Cold War when spies tended to be playing a game inspired by misguided ideology or lured by foreign money (as Mac is in KOTCS).

Indy was disillusioned by the official reaction to the Ark at the end of Raiders, and I get the feeling that it took a lot to get him back into espionage during the war, and was probably glad to be out of it and back into archaeology after the war. Though he does occasionally get called in as an advisor, as in 1947 with the Roswell incident.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:50 AM   #80
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If Indy was only spying during WW2 I don't understand the phrase "After all those years we spent spying on the Reds". It could be more logical to say "After all those years we spent spying on the NAZIS" or just "After all those years we spent spying".

I don't know if he could spy Reds and Nazis during WW2, but saying "All those years" seems to be that he's refering to WW2 and not recent years during Cold War.

I also think that 1947 was the last time he was involved with the OSS/CIA and that his activities during WW2 involved archaeology mixed with spies. In Berlin they could try to recover the art stolen by the nazis. And in Yakarta an adventure mixing native warriors (Amnnesic darts) and japanese army. Is Mac also an archaeologist? If he was digging in Mexico perhaps his original profession is archaeology.

Last edited by Wilhelm : 02-01-2010 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:54 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by lairdo
My pleasure. Glad I found the stuff and could share it.

Not that I know of. One of my goals for this year is to actually catalog and post my Indy collection. It's nothing like Ravenwood - probably smaller than most everyone's collection as I didn't collect figures other than one or two. But almost all of it has special meaning to me. Targeted would be how I describe it. I even have a whip on order from Midwest Whips which I cannot wait to get. But I digress onto the collecting page. Anyway, I consider my notes from my time on YIJC to be part of my collection.
Thankfully you kept your notes and I, for one, am extremely grateful. Thanks for answering all my other questions, as well. More later! Don't worry, not everyone here has a huge Indy collection. Mine is limited to only video, literature & other printed material but I do have a hat and whip.

Do you know how far the Berlin episode developed beyond your synopsis? To your knowledge, was there ever a full script or was anything ever filmed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm
If Indy was only spying during WW2 I don't understand the phrase "After all those years we spent spying on the Reds". It could be more logical to say "After all those years we spent spying on the NAZIS" or just "After all those years we spent spying".

I don't know if he could spy Reds and Nazis during WW2, but saying "All those years" seems to be that he's refering to WW2 and not recent years during Cold War.
You seem confused, Wilhelm. Indy could have easily been in Berlin post-WW2 spying on the Russkies. Using an unrealized idea is natural for any artist but the connection between the unfilmed "Berlin" episode and the line from "Skull" is slim, IMO. I'm all for talking about Indy's spying activities in the '40s/'50s but, please, let's try not to derail this topic. Here are some related threads:

Indy as a spy
"Do you know how many medals this *** won?"
what do you think happened to Indy in WW2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The life of Indiana Jones is such a fertile ground for more stories - I would really love to see his WW2 exploits, but will have to make do with imagining 'Force 10 from Navarone' as an Indy story!
..and "Hanover Street"! One of the unfilmed YIJC stories that really intrigues me is "Alaska" because it would have showed Indy IN THE SNOW and the adventure which solidified his choice of ADOPTING A WHIP as one of his permanent accoutrements!
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:28 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Thankfully you kept your notes and I, for one, am extremely grateful. Thanks for answering all my other questions, as well.

My pleasure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Do you know how far the Berlin episode developed beyond your synopsis? To your knowledge, was there ever a full script or was anything ever filmed?

Sorry Stoo, I don't know. I think there was as a script because it was planned for season 2 originally, but I certainly never saw that or any footage.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:14 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I agree that it's more satisying to think that Indy was only a spy during wartime for the benefits of the war effort, rather than during the Cold War when spies tended to be playing a game inspired by misguided ideology or lured by foreign money (as Mac is in KOTCS).

Indy was disillusioned by the official reaction to the Ark at the end of Raiders, and I get the feeling that it took a lot to get him back into espionage during the war, and was probably glad to be out of it and back into archaeology after the war. Though he does occasionally get called in as an advisor, as in 1947 with the Roswell incident.

I agree. The movie (seemed to) imply that Indy continued working as a spy, which I found utterly ridiculous, offensive and wholly out of character.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:03 PM   #84
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I remember that Lucas said in a interview for Lucasfilm magazine that he had a complete chronology for possible Indy's adventures until the year 1950.

I'm sure that he have written brief synopsis for all his exploits during WW1 and WW2.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:27 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Laird. Laird. Laird. THANK YOU a 1000 times over for these EXCLUSIVES! There is too much to comment on so I’ll approach your revelations bit by bit (otherwise my post would be longer than a Tolstoy novel!)

"My sentiments exactly."

It's kind of bizarre to me to have someone who actually worked on this series posting here just like any other fan, Laird, but I'm sure we're all incredibly grateful. I do look forward to fully absorbing your accounts of the creation of the show, and your insight into all the adventures yet-untold...

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Old 02-02-2010, 01:26 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Stoo
..and "Hanover Street"!

I stopped myself adding Hanover Street, as I think Harrison played a pilot. As of 1938 he only knew how to fly a plane, but not land one!

And yes, Stoo, we have drifted off topic a bit, so no more 1940s/50s spying. Instead I'll echo your thanks to Laird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Laird. Laird. Laird. THANK YOU a 1000 times over for these EXCLUSIVES! There is too much to comment on so I’ll approach your revelations bit by bit (otherwise my post would be longer than a Tolstoy novel!)

All further revelation will be gratefully received.
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:06 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Crack that whip
It's kind of bizarre to me to have someone who actually worked on this series posting here just like any other fan, Laird, but I'm sure we're all incredibly grateful. I do look forward to fully absorbing your accounts of the creation of the show, and your insight into all the adventures yet-untold...


Totally fun for me. It was a great time in my life (and I have been very fortunate to have a wonderful life). (Ha ha, YI Music just came up as I type this in iTunes DJ - End Credits for Trenches. Synergistic!) I only wish I had been a bit older as I would have probably have enjoyed it even more. And I met my wife while living in Marin County (where I lived), so the time also became personally the foundation of all that has followed.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:46 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by lairdo
Hi all,

I finally found my Young Indy file back from my time at LucasFilm. Apologies if this is already online, but I didn't see it in the thread. This is the description from the season 2 notes of YI. The document is dated 8/3/1992.

---snip---

Just wanted to join the army of others and to send EPIC THANKS for all the info that you posted.

I know this is a long shoot but do you maybe know the identity of this person that posted few years ago about Young Indy on Usenet group rec.music.movies. His nick was Capt. Damage. If I can remember correctly his email prefix was "Parker72".

He was also working on Young Indy productions. Original post at the text below:

Source: http://tinyurl.com/2ddbkk

start of quote
______________

News group: rec.music.movies

From: [Parke... @ aol.com (Capt.Damage)]
Date: 28 Oct 2002 15:58:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Young Indiana Jones Chronicles

I actually had the opportunity to work on this series many years ago,
and agree that it's a shame this type of programming doesn't get made
more often. The reason, of course, was that Lucas financed it entirely
out of his own pocket, and was determined to bring together the best
writers, directors, and composers he could find for the project. This
is where he began his longterm relationship with EP1 and EP2 Producer
Rick McCallum, EP2 & EP3 co-writer Jonathan Hales, and also where
Frank Darabonte got his directing start (read his screenwriting
biography sometime for a few surprises).

And since 'Young Indy' was independently financed, Lucas was
determined to finish it at any cost (and the cost became
considerable), whether a network picked it up or not. He was making a
project close to his heart, and (for once) didn't care about the
profit. So when ABC canceled it after 32 episodes, and it moved to
cable in expanded form, Lucas was already eyeing an eventual video
release to reach the audience he really intended: history classrooms.
The whole idea was to bring history alive by re-enacting it through a
familiar hero's eyes.

Fortunately, I think the spirit of feature-quality storytelling (and
score composition) for television continues in such efforts as HBO's
"From the Earth to the Moon" and "Band of Brothers".

To answer your question about music, though, the two principal
composers for the entire series were McNeely and Rosenthal. Fred
Talgorn and Curt Sobel were brought in to score some of the later (and
expanded) episodes that aired once the series moved to cable - I don't
think any of their music has been released yet.

More info than anyone probably wanted, sorry. I really enjoyed the
series, thought it deserved a bigger audience than it got. I'm glad
it's still playing in other countries.

-Capt.Damage

>News group: rec.music.movies

>From: [Jostein Hakestad ]
>Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:30:42 GMT
>Subject: Young Indiana Jones Chronicles

>They're showing this series here on a channel called TV3, and I'm VERY
>impressed by it. The series is being aired two episodes at a time, glued
>together to make series of TV movies, if you will.

>The production value, the acting, the stories presented in this series, are
>all marvellous. The past few episodes have been dealing with the horrors of
>the first World War, and they have been as gripping and horrifying as
>anything seen in cinema. A couple of the episodes have had Saving Private
>Ryan-esque sequences 6 years before that movie was even made. There's also a
>lot of humour and romance. For example, Indy becomes involved with Mata
>Hari, and there was also a "Great Escape" -like episode where Indy was a
>prisoner in a war camp.

>Anyway, the scores by such talented people as Lawrence Rosenthal, Joel
>McNeely and Frederic Talgorn, have all been excellent so far. It's some of
>the finest TV scoring I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. The episode I
>saw today (about Indy being a motorcycle courier for the French army) even
>had a big choral cue, which worked very well indeed.

>I'm one of the people who missed this show when it aired in the early 90's,
>so it's an absolutel delight to be able to watch it now.

>--
>Jostein H


end of quote
_______________
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:37 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by lairdo
Totally fun for me. It was a great time in my life (and I have been very fortunate to have a wonderful life). (Ha ha, YI Music just came up as I type this in iTunes DJ - End Credits for Trenches. Synergistic!) I only wish I had been a bit older as I would have probably have enjoyed it even more. And I met my wife while living in Marin County (where I lived), so the time also became personally the foundation of all that has followed.

Wonderful times.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you in the future about the show, particularly the unfilmed episodes.

For now, my first question is this: do you remember / know whether the unfilmed "Jerusalem" episode with young Indy meeting Abner includes any mention of Abner's little girl - would she have been born (or at least conceived) yet (and for that matter, any mention of Marion's mom / Abner's wife [assuming Abner was indeed married to Marion's mom - likely, but since one never knows...])?
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:09 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Wilhelm
I prefer to think that Indy spied only during WW2, not after. In 1945 he worked again as archaeologist.

It's interesting that he had a past as spy, like Connery's Bond and that was the origin of the concept of Indiana Jones in 1977.

I always got the feeling that he just spied during the war and once it was over he went back to his love, archelogy. It sounds like he is out of the military by the time he gets called upon by the military to check out Roswell.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:21 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Crack that whip
Wonderful times.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you in the future about the show, particularly the unfilmed episodes.

For now, my first question is this: do you remember / know whether the unfilmed "Jerusalem" episode with young Indy meeting Abner includes any mention of Abner's little girl - would she have been born (or at least conceived) yet (and for that matter, any mention of Marion's mom / Abner's wife [assuming Abner was indeed married to Marion's mom - likely, but since one never knows...])?

What I'd also like to know if possible! (Where's the please/begging to know emoticon?)
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:31 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Crack that whip
Wonderful times.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you in the future about the show, particularly the unfilmed episodes.

For now, my first question is this: do you remember / know whether the unfilmed "Jerusalem" episode with young Indy meeting Abner includes any mention of Abner's little girl - would she have been born (or at least conceived) yet (and for that matter, any mention of Marion's mom / Abner's wife [assuming Abner was indeed married to Marion's mom - likely, but since one never knows...])?

The Ultimate Guide records Marion as being born March 23, 1909 (which would be about right, as Indy is ten years older than her), so in Jerusalem June 1909 she'd be 2-3 months old. It would be pretty odd to see a ten year-old Indy with the baby girl that would eventually become his wife. What a great put down in their married life if Indy was to say, "Remember, Marion, I changed your nappy!"
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:00 PM   #93
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Yeah,that would be a little awkward.
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:27 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Crack that whip
For now, my first question is this: do you remember / know whether the unfilmed "Jerusalem" episode with young Indy meeting Abner includes any mention of Abner's little girl - would she have been born (or at least conceived) yet (and for that matter, any mention of Marion's mom / Abner's wife [assuming Abner was indeed married to Marion's mom - likely, but since one never knows...])?


Sorry, I never saw the script for Jerusalem, and I certainly don't recall anyone mentioning if baby Marion was included. We were so busy getting the shows completed (especially in season 2 when we had hard airdates to hit), that I never took the opportunity to read the scripts until they came into post-production. Shame as I am sure I could have gotten copies if I had asked. But you have to realize in the middle of the show in 1992, we had no concept we weren't going to make those great season 3 episodes. At least I didn't know.

One does wonder if the show had started (or initially included) more of the tie in elements to Raiders - the Abner shows and Belloq ealier than season 3 - would it have caught on more? In the past few years, I've gotten around to watching Smallville. I'm almost done with season 7. And while I find it uneven, there are enough Superman tidbits to keep me going. Can you imagine if they had started that without Lex Luthor? It never would have survived.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:29 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by lairdo
One of my goals for this year is to actually catalog and post my Indy collection. It's nothing like Ravenwood - probably smaller than most everyone's collection as I didn't collect figures other than one or two. But almost all of it has special meaning to me. Targeted would be how I describe it.
Scan whatever documents you can. I have a virtual "collection" of transcripts and documents, found through my profile. Yours sounds far more intriguing and unique!
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:29 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by lairdo
Sorry, I never saw the script for Jerusalem, and I certainly don't recall anyone mentioning if baby Marion was included. We were so busy getting the shows completed (especially in season 2 when we had hard airdates to hit), that I never took the opportunity to read the scripts until they came into post-production. Shame as I am sure I could have gotten copies if I had asked. But you have to realize in the middle of the show in 1992, we had no concept we weren't going to make those great season 3 episodes. At least I didn't know.

Ah, well. Thanks for replying, anyway.

For now, I guess this episode remains one of the most tantalizing lost pieces of the big Indy puzzle (at least for me)...
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:51 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The Ultimate Guide records Marion as being born March 23, 1909 (which would be about right, as Indy is ten years older than her), so in Jerusalem June 1909 she'd be 2-3 months old. It would be pretty odd to see a ten year-old Indy with the baby girl that would eventually become his wife. What a great put down in their married life if Indy was to say, "Remember, Marion, I changed your nappy!"

It would also make his relationship with an adolescent Marion in 1926 seem kind of perverse, if not more so than it already is--I mean it's borderline since she was 17, but--It'd be kind of weird for a guy to have a relationship with a girl he remembers seeing as a baby.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:20 PM   #98
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It would also make his relationship with an adolescent Marion in 1926 seem kind of perverse, if not more so than it already is--I mean it's borderline since she was 17, but--It'd be kind of weird for a guy to have a relationship with a girl he remembers seeing as a baby.
That date is actually a politically correct airbrushing by Lucas--in the script she was 15 at the time of the affair (an age suggested, the story conferences say, by Lucas himself. Inconsistency much?). So she'd have been born in 1911, and thus presumably was not present in the episode.

Of course I don't know exactly when Marion's age got revised upward to be more "acceptable," so maybe it had been done already by the time this Young Indy episode was written.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:47 PM   #99
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That date is actually a politically correct airbrushing by Lucas--in the script she was 15 at the time of the affair (an age suggested, the story conferences say, by Lucas himself. Inconsistency much?). So she'd have been born in 1911, and thus presumably was not present in the episode.

Of course I don't know exactly when Marion's age got revised upward to be more "acceptable," so maybe it had been done already by the time this Young Indy episode was written.

Probably sometime in the mid-late 90s as I've noticed Lucas got a lot more PC about his characters around then (for example having Greedo shot first in the '97 Star Wars). Personally, even if it's wrong I'd prefer her age to be 15--It definitely adds more rogue-ishness to Indy's character, and makes Marion saying "It was wrong and you knew it!" more realistic and would make her implying he ruined her life all the more true from her point of view. But not a borderline woman Marion. Even Lucas says in the story conference that it would get uninteresting storywise if Marion was over 15. He actually at first proposes she be 11 or 12!

A 17 year old girl and a 27 year old man is both legal, not THAT really morally questionable and rather common, today, and I imagine even more common back in 1926--I mean back then marriages between adults and child wives, literally children, were still uncomfortably common even in the States, so 17 and 27 probably wasn't too looked down upon.

A 15 year old with a 27 year old is still considered risque today and adds depth, even if it's a negative side, to Indy's character. Perhaps after the horrors of the war, the beginning of the slip of his goodness to becoming the near n'er do well we see in TOD, and the loss of Molly and Deirdre to untimely tragedy he was attracted both to her innocence in a world of sadness and horror--As Marion, while a tom-girl, isn't all that tough in actuality, and her spunkiness.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:26 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Matinee Idyll
I'd love for them to get Flannery back after Indy IV (not sure how old he looks now) and film a couple more episodes... Particularly if there are Raiders/Ark connections in Indy 4.

"Had the series been renewed for a third season, Young Indy would have been introduced to younger versions of characters from Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981): Abner Ravenwood ('Jerusalem, June 1909') and René Belloq ('Honduras, December 1920'). Other episodes would have filled in the blanks between existing ones ('Le Havre, June 1916', 'Berlin, Late August, 1916'), and there would even have been some adventures starring a five year old Indy (Including 'Princeton, May 1905')."
I'd love that!

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