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Old 05-27-2008, 06:05 PM   #1
Raiders112390
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George Lucas

While he is controversial now because of his creations and activities post 1997, can we at least here acknolwedge his uncontested brilliance and amazing imagination before that time? There's been a lot of hate aimed towards him because of the prequels, and KOTCS, but I figured we could take these thread to remember why exactly we do look up to him. The emotion and power of the original Star Wars is one rarely seen in movies and the adventure and fun of the original Indy movies is one uncontested in it's genre. So here's to George Lucas as he was once, and hopefully as he will be again =]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=B5-wiVF2UYg

I would also like to raise a toast if you will to the magic that John Williams once gave us a sense of with his amazing scores, and the memories and great films Steven Spielberg also gave us. Three great men. Hopefully they can find that spark of greatness again.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:33 PM   #2
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George Lucas is a genius. He has created some of the greatest modern day fables and his works have spawned, for many, a religion. As with all religion (which is why I don't subscribe to any) eventually factions arise and war breaks out. Some people take these things way too far - I call them Internerds.

He has been responsible for the way cinema is today in terms of film-making. ILM, THX, Skywalker sound, hell, even Pixar was part of his empire. He cannot be blamed for the STATE of cinema today - that is all the executives fault.

I don't really mind the critiques of his work but I cannot stand insults against the man himself. People are quick to attack him personally regarding his state of mind and physical appearance which I think is pathetic and cowardly. For the person who (in these folks mindset) has created 2 great trilogies and hours of fun when most of us were young to be turned on and lambasted for doing what he does - MAKING FILMS - is fair enough but nothing gives us the right to verbally abuse him.

People who say he "raped their childhood" are beyond help. I Am Legend is a horrible film and an insulting adaptation of my favorite book but it's not the end of the world. I don't wish death on it's director or star, nor do I seek retribution as I burn my book. These people shell out large sums to the Lucas Empire and then say He owes them something. To these people I say STOP IT THEN!

It reminds me of the old joke: A man walks into a Doctor's and says "Doctor it hurts when I move my hand like this" and the Doctor replies "Then don't move your hand like that". George Lucas owes you, me and everybody else nothing, in fact I feel I still owe him more for everything I got as a child.

I am not a fan of the prequels although I don't mind them. I am a huge fan of KOTCS and am seeing it a third time this week. I'm taking my kids who are big fans of the first 3 Indys. In time they will respect George Lucas as much as I do. It's scary that just a few years ago there were a handful of film critics and an army of fans. Now there are just critics - even fans feel the urge to write long winded reviews picking apart every detail. And we all know that everybody can never be satisfied.

Just think if he'd never made Episodes 1-3 or KOTCS we'd still be whining for more. At least we got something. Nobody ever suspected a 4th Indy film so why are so many people complaining about it? It'd be like coming home and randomly getting a briefcase full of money only to turn around and say "I don't like the color, the locks are sticking, why are all the notes not face up?????"
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:39 PM   #3
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Yup, almost exactly my feelings on the matter, Iandiana

Those who excoriate GL because they don't like the SW PT or KOTCS as much as the originals, consider this:

You're accusation against him boils down to this:
He's not living up to the lofty standards which he himself established.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:41 PM   #4
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The original Star Wars trilogy and the old Indy trilogy are the best movies out there. It takes a very creative mind and great talent to be able to create movies such as Raiders and Hope, which are my favorite movies of both trilogies I'm one of those fans who isn't disappointed at KotCS because to me, it was just like watching any Indy movie. I've seen it 3 times already, once on the 22nd. I've never been a fan of the Star Wars prequel trilogy because it destroyed what made the originals good: simplicity and epicness. Yesterday I rewatched The Phantom Menace and I actually like it now

Its a shame that I never watched any of the films during my childhood, rather 2 years ago when I was 14. But I enjoyed them nonetheless.

And Raiders112390, that's a great video. John Williams is the best composer out there. That SW theme is my favorite actually.

Here's the great Raiders March.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:43 PM   #5
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George Lucas's biggest downfall was that he hit nothing but World Series-winning grand slam home runs out of the park in the beginning....then people were let down when he would only come up to bat and hit regular season singles and doubles in the later years.

Jesus. I don't even like baseball, but somehow got to that analogy.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:49 PM   #6
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Love 'em or Hate 'em, George created Star Wars and Indiana Jones, pretty much the 2 biggest things in my life hobby-wise. Without him, movies would be different, collectibles would be different, fandom would be different, and we all wouldn't be discussing this. He's taken movies to a new level with CGI and special effects, hate it if you want.

He may have lost the touch he once had, but who has had an absolutely flawless career? George gave us great things.

I sort of despise him for what he became though. But he's still one of the most influential people today.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Z
George Lucas's biggest downfall was that he hit nothing but World Series-winning grand slam home runs out of the park in the beginning....then people were let down when he would only come up to bat and hit regular season singles and doubles in the later years.

Jesus. I don't even like baseball, but somehow got to that analogy.

I'm British and I even understand it!

Forgot to say thanks to Raiders112390. This thread will soon become littered with hate and bile but for now there's a lot of love in this place. I just read Saucermen from Mars - truly horrific.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:34 PM   #8
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Actually, I think Lucas's downfall is that he believed his own press. I remember the interviews that came out with Jedi (as well as some of his emerging professional habits of that time) and they were worrying. Where as, before, he had a skilled team of people who collaborated heavily, Lucas had turned into something of a 'camera dictator' with Jedi (beginning to simply just fire people who disagreed with him on any call), and even more so with the prequel trilogy.

I think that's the issue that sticks out with Lucas to me - he believes himself to be the 'genius and visionary' that certain fanbois (TM) praise him to be, and shows some open contempt for people that don't give him such accolades.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:43 PM   #9
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He was, indeed, a brilliant mind, and one of the greatest imaginations in cinema ever. He had a great mind for stories, and a great mind which created beautiful worlds and characters. He also got many talented writers (Kasdan) and many talented directors (Kershner) and one of the most talented film scorer's, John Williams, and like him, they were all at the height of their creative powers in the '70s and '80s. It was truly a great time for cinema, and for George Lucas' creativity. He was hitting homeruns with almost every film.

I think it's sort of a like a line from Ep. 3--Those who have power are afraid to lose it. Lucas, who got pushed around by the movie studio big wigs of the '
'70s, now commanded a lot of respect, acclaim and power by the early '80s. He was George Lucas, dammit, and he wasn't going to allow anyone to take that power away from him, ever again. So, he sort of became a control freak, perhaps even without knowing it. He'd been so used to other's editing, changing and guiding his vision that he saw anyone who tried to change his mind about his creations as a threat to his power and to his creative vision. The idea of the '97 Special Editions are also a rebellion from that old order. This his version of Star Wars, and not anyone else's.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:45 PM   #10
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I don't have any hatred for Lucas at all. I hate AVID though.... Ok, I am still learning it, but still....

Even so, I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't completely hate the prequels (though AotC could have been less lovey dovey and was the most annoying of the series). I don't hate Jar Jar. I don't love him either. He's just there for comic relief, which sometimes doesn't work. But you know, I was 11 and my cousin was about the same age when we saw TPM and we both loved the film. We would imitate Qui Gon and Darth Maul all the time after that. I used to collect Queen Amidala stuff at the time too. I had that doll where you could change the red costume. I did try to get the one where you could change her to Padme, but got too old when it was cheap enough.

I've seen the Ewok movies, American Graffiti, Land Before Time (I totally grew up with that and would love it), Willow (great film) and even his collaboration with Jim Henson on Labyrinth, another great film. I have yet to see his collaboration with Kurosawa, and am eager to get a look at that (I have a personal love for Kurasawa's work, my favourite being Yojimbo). He created a huge indie film enterprise and has given many indie filmmakers that dream, shown that it is possible even though their films are probably not quite as of the fantasy realm as Lucas works in.

In truth, I have respect for him. I wouldn't have FCP, AVID, HD cameras to play around with at film school, I would be still pulling out too much money to shoot on film. I can now spend money where it is needed on catering and transportation and production design. He's given much to the film students of today.

Indiana Jones was what started this passion I have. The films are important to me in that way. I'm grateful in a way, that they made KOTCS, as this was a great oppotunity for the younger fans like myself, to enjoy it on the big screen. I never had that chance with any of the others. I was born too late for that and born too late and in the wrong country to have been part of the production experience. Just to have been a production assistant, would have been awesome.

I would love to see Lucas do these supposed art films he was talking about in 2005. I want to see the next stage of this guy's career rather than just revamps of SW. I think there is way enough SW out there. The fans tend to keep it alive very well. There is enough of them. They even create their own mythologies now. There's books all the time and comics too. Collectables you swear you've seen a hundred times before but oh, it's a new collection called "The Force" or whatever.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:13 AM   #11
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The horror... the horror...

Last edited by Agent Spalko : 05-28-2008 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:30 AM   #12
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Lucas is responsible for some of my favorite child hood films: Star Wars, Indy, Willow, Labyrinth, Land Before Time. I can't even try to think of how many hours I spent as a kid watching his films, or dreaming of the universes he creatd or playing with toys based off of these properties.

As an adult I discovered American Graffiti and loved it. While I like the prequels, I don't love them, but they still helped me remember my childhood and love for Star Wars.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:36 AM   #13
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Well, if there is a director responsible of the state of cinema today, it is Lucas, but yeah, it is true that executives are really the ones who are to blame and Lucas just showed the way. I really appreciate Indiana Jones, and Star Wars too (although never been a huge fan), but otherwise, I donít really know what to say about this guy. Most of all, he is somewhat a shape sifter. He started out as this art-film guy, who hanged around with Coppola, complaining about the old Hollywood and studio bosses. Then, suddenly after American Graffitiís success, he starts making these popcorn movies himself. But maybe, in the heart, he never was Coppola, Scorsese, Palma or the other guys. More somewhat Steven Spielberg, a man who actually praised the old action and entertainment cinema, over the auteur-films and foreign cinema. Anyway, I canít say a good word of what George does nowadays.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:27 PM   #14
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I say we damn George Lucas for creating Star Wars and Indiana Jones in the first place. If he hadn't, then so many "fanboys" wouldn't be feeling like their childhoods had been raped right now.

DAMN YOU FOR FOND CHILDHOOD MEMORIES LUCAAAAAAAASSS!!!









(it's called sarcasm)
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:05 PM   #15
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Seems rather befitting seeing as how he has made a mockery of his own work.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Seems rather befitting seeing as how he has made a mockery of his own work.

In your mind. If you have nothing positive to add to this thread, make a Lucas haters thread.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet Indy
He created a huge indie film enterprise and has given many indie filmmakers that dream, shown that it is possible even though their films are probably not quite as of the fantasy realm as Lucas works in.

In truth, I have respect for him. I wouldn't have FCP, AVID, HD cameras to play around with at film school, I would be still pulling out too much money to shoot on film. I can now spend money where it is needed on catering and transportation and production design. He's given much to the film students of today.
.

Well said. I agree. Spielberg can be thrown in there as well.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:21 AM   #18
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It's become the "done thing" to diss Lucas these days, which is unfortunate.
As far as I'm concerned, that man's achievements and imagination has given me some of my all time favourite movies, and has enriched the film industry and the art of filmmaking itself immeasurably.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
In your mind. If you have nothing positive to add to this thread, make a Lucas haters thread.

Do we really need one? Most every thread is a Lucas haters thread. No one's made George Lucas more controversial then himself. With some of the boneheaded and blatantly greed-induced things he's done in more recent years, he's opened himself up to criticism. He has to take responsibility for that, yet he’s too stubborn and arrogant to admit to any flaws. This just makes him more unpopular with fans.

Quote:
He created a huge indie film enterprise and has given many indie filmmakers that dream, shown that it is possible even though their films are probably not quite as of the fantasy realm as Lucas works in.

Hey! Maybe when they hit it big and establish their own company they can sell out to greed and marketing ploys too! JOY! Admirably goals.

Last edited by MaxPhactor23 : 05-31-2008 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:07 AM   #20
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I don't think he sold it, any more than any other director out there has.
George's problem, I think, is that these days he has more of a CEO mentality than a young hungry artist mentality. It's evident in the Ep. 1 making of that he's got a very very hands on approach and views it in sort of a business like way. Also, on the prequels, every decision was approved by him, while on the originals I've heard it was more or less a collarative process.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I don't think he sold it, any more than any other director out there has.
George's problem, I think, is that these days he has more of a CEO mentality than a young hungry artist mentality. It's evident in the Ep. 1 making of that he's got a very very hands on approach and views it in sort of a business like way. Also, on the prequels, every decision was approved by him, while on the originals I've heard it was more or less a collarative process.

I'm pretty much with yah here. It's really rather annoying. That is a lot of the problem in my opinion. No one has the balls to speak against Lucas these days. The halls of ILM and his other offices are filled with sycophantic suck-ups. Somewhere along the like he developed this sort of god complex and demanded a sort of superiority. As far as I’m concerned, films greatly benefit from more then one mans narrow-minded vision. A collaborative process is how to get it done. A diverse flow of ideas can only improve. You don’t run your film like an office, and as a result the prequels were almost unanimously lacking. Lucas has derailed into some sort of self-absorbed fan boy himself. It’s all about the “me me me” mindset he’s got going. I’d much rather someone that cared about the fans and showed his appreciation. Films always come out superior that way. Always! It’s really rather sad compared to what he once was. The man was my hero, one of my main inspirations. Now he’s what I dread becoming the most, a greed-consumed Hollywood director more concerned with turning a profit then making art and telling a story.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by MaxPhactor23
I'm pretty much with yah here. It's really rather annoying. That is a lot of the problem in my opinion. No one has the balls to speak against Lucas these days. The halls of ILM and his other offices are filled with sycophantic suck-ups. Somewhere along the like he developed this sort of god complex and demanded a sort of superiority. As far as Iím concerned, films greatly benefit from more then one mans narrow-minded vision. A collaborative process is how to get it done. A diverse flow of ideas can only improve. You donít run your film like an office, and as a result the prequels were almost unanimously lacking. Lucas has derailed into some sort of self-absorbed fan boy himself. Itís all about the ďme me meĒ mindset heís got going. Iíd much rather someone that cared about the fans and showed his appreciation. Films always come out superior that way. Always! Itís really rather sad compared to what he once was. The man was my hero, one of my main inspirations. Now heís what I dread becoming the most, a greed-consumed Hollywood director more concerned with turning a profit then making art and telling a story.

I wouldn't say he's more concerned with profit than telling a story. He spent 5years of his life working on the prequels. He wanted to tell a story, but it's not the story that people wanted to hear, or not told as well as most people would like.
It's not that he's greedy, it's just on the prequels he should've let go of some of that creative control. The problem is, he was so used to other's editing his vision and changing it onhim that in retaliation he now finally had total creative control and was going to keep it. He wanted to prove with the prequels that he could tell a story on his own, and he wanted the prequels to be his versions, 100%, whereas he viewed the original Star Wars releases as only 70% of what he had envisioned.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I wouldn't say he's more concerned with profit than telling a story. He spent 5years of his life working on the prequels. He wanted to tell a story, but it's not the story that people wanted to hear, or not told as well as most people would like.
It's not that he's greedy, it's just on the prequels he should've let go of some of that creative control. The problem is, he was so used to other's editing his vision and changing it onhim that in retaliation he now finally had total creative control and was going to keep it. He wanted to prove with the prequels that he could tell a story on his own, and he wanted the prequels to be his versions, 100%, whereas he viewed the original Star Wars releases as only 70% of what he had envisioned.

I think you're somewhat in denial here. I can list off entire characters and plot directors in the prequels that almost irrefutably point to his only motive being for marketing. I don’t doubt that the money aspects were ingrained into the story-making process. It's blatantly obviously with a bit of analyzing. When you have a pre-established surviving villain, already fulfilling the required role of leader of the separatist army, you don’t kill him off in the first ten minutes of the next film, replace him with a gimmicky four-armed CGI cyborg, because it's the right move for the script. You don’t purposely eliminate any chance of giving your character some amount of relevance to the story at hand. Yet Lucas continued the long lineage of lavishly cool-looking but expendably useless and one-dimensional prequel villains. The fact of the matter is that an asthmatic android with an addiction to collecting lightsabers would sell more action figures then crusty old Chris Lee. That's the only reason the geriatric dark jedi lost his head so quick. Telling yourself differently would only confirm you're in denial. Once you start specifically axing the depth and psychology of your script, drastically altering it's direction to make room for fast food endorsements and subliminal product placement…you’ve sold out.

Last edited by MaxPhactor23 : 05-31-2008 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:18 AM   #24
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Though I don't hate George, I would like to have a word with him concerning the Star Wars prequels... Boba/Jango Fett involved with clone wars..George..come on over here...a minute...
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:39 PM   #25
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I'm a big George Lucas fan of course but I think he's starting to lose his touch a little. I don't know if I'd say "lost it" he's still a great director I just think he's turned away from some of his older movie styles like Raiders and Star Wars (the classic films). His movies these days, I don't know I think he's becoming way to obsessed with CGI when it comes to Star Wars. There are parts in episodes 1-3 where a stunt man could of been used easliy.
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