TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > Off Topic > Open Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-05-2009, 04:06 PM   #26
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
And what's wrong with Socialism? FDR, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Condoleezza Rice and many more also have or held some Socialistic views to some extent.

Besides if Socialism works well then mosey on along and stop complaining.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=111420898

What??? George Washington and Benjamin Franklin held no socialist views! They hated socialism!

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."-Franklin

"Repeal that [welfare] law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. ... Six days shalt thou labor, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them."-Franklin


No. Real Americans WON'T "mosey along". This country, AMERICA, was founded on certain principles that were AGAINST socialism. If you want socialism, go to Europe. How can you not care at all about our founding?
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 04:13 PM   #27
Insomniac
IndyFan
 
Insomniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In another dimension
Posts: 792
Im gonna develop a space program and develop a group of people who admire Isocracy and build a colony on mars and rename it "Isocracy rock" and declare my independence from the world!
Insomniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #28
WillKill4Food
IndyFan
 
WillKill4Food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York City, the Big Apple
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Your invective against Obama is astounding in that you manage to equate him with socialists and fascists in the same breath; that's amazing.
Nazi is short for Nationalsozialismus: National Socialism.
WillKill4Food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 06:35 PM   #29
Le Saboteur
IndyFan
 
Le Saboteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sham Shui Po
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trennas
Interesting discussion. I will not go into whether who I think is right or not, because I think you will probably eat me alive...

Pay attention to U.S. politics for any length of time, and you'll quickly learn that Strict Constructionists and True Americans () are not interested in an actual discussion of socialized health care/nationalizing the banks/whatever. To them, the Founding Fathers thought of everything, and the Constitution is not open to interpretation -- a dead object, instead of a living, breathing document.

They'd rather beat their chests, wave flags, and rend their garments instead of coming up with some sort of alternative. 74% of Americans believe in health care reform, and the Republican Party has taken its collective head and stuck it in the sand like an ostrich. You can note the shaping of this thread, and that other one on Obama's Speech to Muslims for evidence of this here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Marx
"A sympathy for the working class or proletariat and a belief that the ultimate interests of workers best match those of humanity in general."

It's this quote that the ideologically Right want to use to hang the 'Socialist' tag on Obama. Too bad that they're uninterested in actually asking a member of the socialist party if Obama conforms to their platform or not.

Human Events: Is Obama a Socialist?

Obama's No Socialist. I Should Know.

The Manifesto of the Communist Party

Das Kapital, Vol. 1

Paul Krugman of The New York Times also has an interesting article on health care. You can read about it here.

Oh, and I forget who mentioned it, but of course I direct you to The Huffington Post; it's where the counterpoint to the all nay-saying is going to come from. I'll also redirect you to the Fox Forum as the appropriate place for all your ranting and raving about AMERICA!
Le Saboteur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:49 PM   #30
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Pay attention to U.S. politics for any length of time, and you'll quickly learn that Strict Constructionists and True Americans () are not interested in an actual discussion of socialized health care/nationalizing the banks/whatever. To them, the Founding Fathers thought of everything, and the Constitution is not open to interpretation -- a dead object, instead of a living, breathing document.

They'd rather beat their chests, wave flags, and rend their garments instead of coming up with some sort of alternative. 74% of Americans believe in health care reform, and the Republican Party has taken its collective head and stuck it in the sand like an ostrich. You can note the shaping of this thread, and that other one on Obama's Speech to Muslims for evidence of this here.



It's this quote that the ideologically Right want to use to hang the 'Socialist' tag on Obama. Too bad that they're uninterested in actually asking a member of the socialist party if Obama conforms to their platform or not.

Human Events: Is Obama a Socialist?

Obama's No Socialist. I Should Know.

The Manifesto of the Communist Party

Das Kapital, Vol. 1

Paul Krugman of The New York Times also has an interesting article on health care. You can read about it here.

Oh, and I forget who mentioned it, but of course I direct you to The Huffington Post; it's where the counterpoint to the all nay-saying is going to come from. I'll also redirect you to the Fox Forum as the appropriate place for all your ranting and raving about AMERICA!

You have no idea what you're talking about. That was just proven when you said one couldn't be a fascist and a socialist at the same time.

The Founding Fathers WERE against socialism. Nobody's just assuming they were. Do some research. Read their quotes and speeches.

Of course the socialist parties won't say Obama's a socialist! They know people of America won't follow socialism! If they deny it, people like YOU will believe them and vote for socialists like Obama.

The Huffington Post, unlike Fox, is a HATEFUL website.

Your problem is you want to completely change America from what it was intended to be and always has been. If you don't like America and what it stands for, then leave!
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:18 PM   #31
bennihana123
IndyFan
 
bennihana123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 342
The Founding Fathers do not equal today's America. They wrote the Constitution with the thought in mind that it could be changed to fit the times and improved upon.

I'm just saying that the ideals of the Founding Fathers may not apply (is that the right word?) to today.
bennihana123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:31 PM   #32
Kevin
IndyFan
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
74% of Americans believe in health care reform, and the Republican Party has taken its collective head and stuck it in the sand like an ostrich.

But are that many Americans ready to say hello to a marginal tax rate of 50-60%? Like I said, Obama's own people (Geithner & Summers) refuse to rule out tax hikes on the middle class (those making less than $250K per year) as a way to pay for this plan. Such a tax hike would violate one of Obama's key promises, and would would seriously harm his chances for re-election (remember Bush Sr. and "read my lips"?)

Until Obama makes it clear how he plans to pay for this proposal, he can expect zero support from the House and Senate, because what they do will be remembered in the 2010 midterms coming up. They don't want to piss off their constituents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trennas
Interesting discussion. I will not go into whether who I think is right or not, because I think you will probably eat me alive, but Kevin's comment about surtaxes made me wonder how the US tax system actually works.. Here in the Netherlands we work with so-called tax scales. The amount of money you make puts you in a particular scale and you pay a higher percentage of taxes the further up in the scales you go. Seems to work pretty well here so far.

Here in the USA we have a similar system, called a Progressive Tax System. Basically the more you make, the higher your tax percentage. The proposed surtax would basically be a tax on top of the already levied tax, and would break down as follows:

1 percent surtax on AGI between $350,000 and $500,000 (singles between $280,000 and $400,000)

1.5 percent surtax on AGI between $500,000 and $1,000,000 (singles between $400,000 and $800,000)

5.4 percent surtax on AGI beyond $1,000,000 (singles beyond $800,000)
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:57 PM   #33
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennihana123
The Founding Fathers do not equal today's America. They wrote the Constitution with the thought in mind that it could be changed to fit the times and improved upon.

I'm just saying that the ideals of the Founding Fathers may not apply (is that the right word?) to today.

Absolutely false. The Founding Fathers constantly wrote about how certain things can NEVER happen or change in America. Socialism is clearly one of these.
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 10:53 PM   #34
Le Saboteur
IndyFan
 
Le Saboteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sham Shui Po
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
But are that many Americans ready to say hello to a marginal tax rate of 50-60%? Like I said, Obama's own people (Geithner & Summers) refuse to rule out tax hikes on the middle class (those making less than $250K per year) as a way to pay for this plan. Such a tax hike would violate one of Obama's key promises, and would would seriously harm his chances for re-election (remember Bush Sr. and "read my lips"?)

Of course they're not. Americans are still very much in the want category, but don't want to pay for anything. But they have forgotten Wilde's maxim about those that "know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
Until Obama makes it clear how he plans to pay for this proposal, he can expect zero support from the House and Senate...

Zero support is a stretch. If they really wanted to, the Democrats could ram it through the house, and probably the Senate. It'll take some work. That aside, there is the approximate $100-billion dollars a year we're currently wasting in the Iraq debacle. Priorities are going to need to be decided, then stuck to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Short Round
Your problem is you want to completely change America from what it was intended to be and always has been. If you don't like America and what it stands for, then leave!

Thank you for continuing to prove my point. Especially considering that socialism wasn't coined until around 1850.
Le Saboteur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 11:14 PM   #35
HovitosKing
IndyFan
 
HovitosKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 1,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnswman
http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-vi...ate-insurance/

It can't get any more simple than that.

This President has EVERY right to push for HIS vision of America. However, it should be understood by AMERICANS that this man is a long time socialist thinker.

This is the SAME type of plan that even the Nazi party tried to achieve. This can be best explained here: http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/e...ame=nazi_ideas

Now, I fully understand that MANY blindless followers still use the tired old defense that ANYONE who does not support this President is a Racist. However, that has now just proven that they simply are unable to defend this man's policies or beliefs.

In reality, Obama has and continues to show how much of a racist and Socialist that he is. The threats that this healthcare bill will bring to America and it's citizens are not only scary, they are proven to FAIL!

NONE of this is hidden well either...One simple needs to READ THE BILL...Here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

I have read it and am ASTOUNDED that any of these Socialist ideas could EVER be presented in an AMERICAN House Bill.

So, go ahead...Read it yourself...If you can't understand it, I'm sure your ignorant old "you are a racist...if you don't agree 100% with Obama" comments will help this Nazi like Administration succeed.

Seriously. Get a life.
HovitosKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 11:28 PM   #36
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Of course they're not. Americans are still very much in the want category, but don't want to pay for anything. But they have forgotten Wilde's maxim about those that "know the price of everything and the value of nothing."



Zero support is a stretch. If they really wanted to, the Democrats could ram it through the house, and probably the Senate. It'll take some work. That aside, there is the approximate $100-billion dollars a year we're currently wasting in the Iraq debacle. Priorities are going to need to be decided, then stuck to.



Thank you for continuing to prove my point. Especially considering that socialism wasn't coined until around 1850.

Sorry if hard working Americans don't want to be taxed to death. They aren't entitled to keep the majority of money they make, right?

It doesn't matter when the term "socialism" was coined, it's ideas have been around since the beginning. If you would actually learn something and read the quotes and speeches by our Founding Fathers, you would know that they were STRONGLY against socialistic ideas.
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 11:58 PM   #37
bennihana123
IndyFan
 
bennihana123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short Round
Absolutely false. The Founding Fathers constantly wrote about how certain things can NEVER happen or change in America. Socialism is clearly one of these.
There are these things called amendments...
bennihana123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 09:25 AM   #38
monkey
Guest
 
monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,068
some of you guys need to un-twist your panties. Calm down.

I like President Obama very much.

I think he is a GREAT President!! I fully support him.

He is a White guy, who has some African in his ancestry.

Anyway.........

What is wrong with Socialism? When it is combined with Nationalism, it becomes............GASP!!!! National Socialism. .....Actually, the BEST form of Government for its citizens.

There are many National Socialist Governments in the World today. .....Oh, they don't call themselves that........because they would be condemned and criticized for doing so, due to the artificial stigma attached to the words "National Socialist", but nonetheless they are indeed National Socialist.

Japan, Singapore,.....these countries are indeed National Socialist. I.E. the put the health, benefit, and welfare of their citizens above ALL!!

Translation: They don't allow the International corporations to RULE their countries, as the US does. They don't sell their people down the river for the benefit of the profit margin of the multinational corporations......as the US does! They don't OUTSOURCE jobs ........as the US does! They have PATRIOTISM, and love of Country,......as the US does NOT!

At least until now.

Now we have Mr. Obama.

He seems to love his country, and to want the best for it.

WHAT A HUGE CHANGE FROM THE LAST PRESIDENT!! Who sold his soul to the multinationals, and to a certain Foreign Country

("Beware of Foreign Entanglements" .........G. Washington).

President Obama wants to end senseless overseas wars, and bring Health Care to all of the American People. ..........wow, what a horrible concept!

Some of you guys need to calm the F@#$ down, and think about what you are ranting about.

Get a grip. Health card for AMERICANS is not a bad thing..........HELLO!
monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 01:53 PM   #39
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,671
Speaking of panties in a twist, here's Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi accusing her opponents of "carrying swastikas." (Maybe they're just Native Americans, trying to warn us about the miserable state of government health care on reservations?) For a fine collection of such accusations and the real history of 20th century ideologies, read this book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
Americans ready to say hello to a marginal tax rate of 50-60%?
That's where we're headed, a tax rate higher than France. Just think of every 2% as one week of servitude to feed the government, before you feed, clothe or house your own family. This is caring?
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 05:16 PM   #40
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey
some of you guys need to un-twist your panties. Calm down.

I like President Obama very much.

I think he is a GREAT President!! I fully support him.

He is a White guy, who has some African in his ancestry.

Anyway.........

What is wrong with Socialism? When it is combined with Nationalism, it becomes............GASP!!!! National Socialism. .....Actually, the BEST form of Government for its citizens.

There are many National Socialist Governments in the World today. .....Oh, they don't call themselves that........because they would be condemned and criticized for doing so, due to the artificial stigma attached to the words "National Socialist", but nonetheless they are indeed National Socialist.

Japan, Singapore,.....these countries are indeed National Socialist. I.E. the put the health, benefit, and welfare of their citizens above ALL!!

Translation: They don't allow the International corporations to RULE their countries, as the US does. They don't sell their people down the river for the benefit of the profit margin of the multinational corporations......as the US does! They don't OUTSOURCE jobs ........as the US does! They have PATRIOTISM, and love of Country,......as the US does NOT!

At least until now.

Now we have Mr. Obama.

He seems to love his country, and to want the best for it.

WHAT A HUGE CHANGE FROM THE LAST PRESIDENT!! Who sold his soul to the multinationals, and to a certain Foreign Country

("Beware of Foreign Entanglements" .........G. Washington).

President Obama wants to end senseless overseas wars, and bring Health Care to all of the American People. ..........wow, what a horrible concept!

Some of you guys need to calm the F@#$ down, and think about what you are ranting about.

Get a grip. Health card for AMERICANS is not a bad thing..........HELLO!

How is he a great president??? Please tell us WHY you think that?

America isn't a socialist nation! Do you care about our history? You are the most anti-American person I have ever come across.

Sorry but the US actually believes in the free market and giving people FREEDOM.

The founding fathers hated your views and you should just leave America since you hate what it stands for.

Get a grip. The Founding Fathers FEARED socialism!
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 05:54 PM   #41
Kevin
IndyFan
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Zero support is a stretch. If they really wanted to, the Democrats could ram it through the house, and probably the Senate. It'll take some work.

Not really a stretch. The surtax idea has proven to be a nonstarter in the Senate so far, probably because most Senators realize that rich people are smart people (or just hire smart lawyers) and will figure out ways around it.

So, when the surtax fails to fund the program, lawmakers will have no choice but to raise taxes on the middle class. Raising taxes is always unpopular, but doing so in the middle of (or just after, depending on who you believe) a recession is akin to political suicide.
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 08:08 PM   #42
Le Saboteur
IndyFan
 
Le Saboteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sham Shui Po
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Speaking of panties in a twist, here's Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi accusing her opponents of "carrying swastikas."

I've always liked George Orwell's essay on fascism. you can read it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Orwell
It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.
Le Saboteur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 10:38 PM   #43
WillKill4Food
IndyFan
 
WillKill4Food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York City, the Big Apple
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey
President Obama wants to end senseless overseas wars, and bring Health Care to all of the American People. ..........wow, what a horrible concept!
Oh, really? Barack Obama called for 20,000 new troops to Afghanistan and authorized the deployment of 17,000 troops to Afghanistan on February 17, 2009 and an extra 4,000 later in the year to supplement the training of Afghan security forces. The extra 20,000 troops will increase the US presence from 32,000 to 52,000, bringing the total international troop presence to roughly 60,000.
Read more: http://www.mahalo.com/afghanistan-tr...ge#cite_note-1

But while I agree that no one should have to do without health care, you have failed to acknowledge the issues of paying for universal health care and the treatment delays found in the single-payer systems of other countries.
WillKill4Food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 08:43 AM   #44
tnswman
IndyFan
 
tnswman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East, Tennessee
Posts: 1,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniac
For the first video in my viewpoint CLEVER EDITING!
I believe Obama is better than the dictator ship Bush and DICK tried to pull of our system Dick tried to crossover branches over our system to make him control multiple branches while bush had the other and hell dick shot a guy.
That and would most likely would have reoccur with McCain and Palin the takeover and the shooting!

BTW OBAMA is not a Nazi if anything he is mor of a communist and the communist system could have worked with a few adjustments of their system are made!

Personally Isocracy is the way to go!

Do you realize, you made the MOST un-American statement that you could EVER make!!

Way to go!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillKill4Food
Nazi is short for Nationalsozialismus: National Socialism.

Thank you for posting something that I forgot to.

If ANY of you have ANY doubt that Obama and his radical Statist White House have anything OTHER than NAZI-like interests, then you need to takea LONG HARD LOOK at the point that they are ASKING Neighbors to report each other to the White House! Just like Stalin's secret police.

This is NOT America...None of you that support this Tax raising and life ENDING Naziesque healthcare plan..you simply are too ignorant to UNDERSTAND the small details that will go into this plan that will DESTROY everything we know!

Here is your first clue, the Doctors are AGAINST this plan at the highest number. What does that say for the care that will be given?

You seem to simply think that it's a good idea. However, NONE of you can argue the points of the program because you OBVIOUSLY have not READ THE BILL!

So, Educate yourselves and COME BACK WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND!!

Until then, We will be fighting against the most Un-American President ever to be GIVEN the office.

THANK GOD, he will NEVER have a chance in HELL at re-election!! The American people are PI$$ED!! They will NOT vote for him ever again!!

Thank you for being a Socialist FOOL Mr. President!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bennihana123
The Founding Fathers do not equal today's America. They wrote the Constitution with the thought in mind that it could be changed to fit the times and improved upon.

I'm just saying that the ideals of the Founding Fathers may not apply (is that the right word?) to today.

You need to better understand both the Constitution and the Founding Fathers.

The Constitution is formed in a way that it does NOT answer ever human need because the FF wanted people to NOT look to the Government to be the end all answer. It is the most brilliant paper ever written.

It was given rules of AMENDMENT that will allow changes to be made. However, that process is NEVER easy because the Constitution already answers most needs.

They WERE thinking of the future, that is why the FF did NOT word the Constitution as life, Liberty and the right to own property as God given freedoms...at that time slaves were PROPERTY..so to empower property owners with a God Given right would lock in the constitutional rights of the slave owner.

try reading the Constitution deeper than your current understanding allows you to comprehend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HovitosKing
Seriously. Get a life.

Obviously, you are unable to debate....WAY to be a grown up...Thank god there are people who have the interest of IDIOTS like you in mind. Since your thought process won't allow you to process a true interaction.

Last edited by Moedred : 08-07-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: merged 2 posts
tnswman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 10:34 AM   #45
Finn
Moderator
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,917
Exclamation Mod note

The upkeep understands that this is a subject that's making emotions boil but The Raven is not the place to vent the extra steam. If you folks can't keep vitriol and insults out of your posts, this thread will end up locked quicker than you can say "tax raise".

Also, someone losing his or her cool in this thread from this point on becomes a subject for a week's involuntary leave from the forums. If you can't discuss this civilly, then there's no place for you here.

Now continue, but play nice.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 10:41 AM   #46
tnswman
IndyFan
 
tnswman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East, Tennessee
Posts: 1,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
The upkeep understands that this is a subject that's making emotions boil but The Raven is not the place to vent the extra steam. If you folks can't keep vitriol and insults out of your posts, this thread will end up locked quicker than you can say "tax raise".

Also, someone losing his or her cool in this thread from this point on becomes a subject for a week's involuntary leave from the forums. If you can't discuss this civilly, then there's no place for you here.

Now continue, but play nice.


Does that include venting anger toward politicians? That is a right to be angry correct?
tnswman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 11:39 AM   #47
HovitosKing
IndyFan
 
HovitosKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 1,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short Round
Sorry but the US actually believes in the free market and giving people FREEDOM.

The nice thing about the US is that the people (those CURRENTLY living within her domain) decide what is best for her. Not the founding fathers, not the religion du jour, not any delusional interest group. She's a living, breathing nation with a living, breathing constitution at her heart. As times change and people evolve, so does the nature of our government change to support her people. People like you, who fear change and despise the search for a better way through the exchange of ideas, are the shackles that our forefathers designed the constitution to break free of. This nation has always been one great big experiment; it's never been a stodgy set of unchanging rules meant to appease one small, insignificant segment of the population. That's what our forefathers intended. A country that adapts and changes to meet the needs of her people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnswman
Obviously, you are unable to debate....WAY to be a grown up...Thank god there are people who have the interest of IDIOTS like you in mind. Since your thought process won't allow you to process a true interaction.

This is no debate. This is pathetic. The fact that I restrain myself proves I'm an idiot, unable to debate? Fascinating logic, O wise sage.

Why fools are endowed by nature with voices so much louder than sensible people possess is a mystery. It is a fact emphasized throughout history.

-Hertzler

Last edited by Moedred : 08-07-2009 at 11:55 AM. Reason: merged 2 posts
HovitosKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #48
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,671
Merged double posts. Use the edit button folks, that's how you take your turn on the soapbox. And like I stated earlier, letters to congresspersons are a better outlet right now. They have paid office drones who are required to read and respond. Carry on, and don't make us report you to flag@whitehouse.gov...
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 01:17 PM   #49
Finn
Moderator
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,917
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnswman
Does that include venting anger toward politicians? That is a right to be angry correct?
Foul language is never appreciated, but at the minimum you should refrain from calling names to fellow forum members.

Still though, I do believe that there is a way to discuss this subject without any extra caveman effect at all. Which is desirable.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 03:18 PM   #50
Short Round
IndyFan
 
Short Round's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Valley of the Crescent Moon
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by HovitosKing
The nice thing about the US is that the people (those CURRENTLY living within her domain) decide what is best for her. Not the founding fathers, not the religion du jour, not any delusional interest group. She's a living, breathing nation with a living, breathing constitution at her heart. As times change and people evolve, so does the nature of our government change to support her people. People like you, who fear change and despise the search for a better way through the exchange of ideas, are the shackles that our forefathers designed the constitution to break free of. This nation has always been one great big experiment; it's never been a stodgy set of unchanging rules meant to appease one small, insignificant segment of the population. That's what our forefathers intended. A country that adapts and changes to meet the needs of her people.

-Hertzler[/i]

You obviously have no idea what America stands for. Have we ever been a socialist nation? No, we haven't. Have we thrived since the beginning of our founding? Yes, we have. Now, if YOU believe socialism is good, that is different than the COUNTRY believing it's good. Our forefathers intended this to be a FREE nation. That was number one. They spoke out against socialist views over and over again. They said they feared the day when these views would enter our government. This was their goal, to keep America a free nation, with limited government. They broke away from big government in order to do this. They fought, risking their lives, to create a free nation in which people could choose their own way to live and absolutely HATED the idea of taking money from the people who earned it to give it to the ones who DIDN'T.

America has become a great nation because of our freedom and opportunity and to change it to a socialist nation will result in complete failure.
Short Round is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 PM.