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Old 05-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #101
Dr Bones
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Just watched an episode of the CGI Clone Wars and it wasn't half bad for a kids show.

It was the fist time I have seen it and by coincidence the epsisode I happned to watch had what looked like a Crystal Skull in a trophy room.

Apparently there are other Indy relics such as the staff of Ra and the Ark in other episodes.

Cheesey but a nice nod to Indy.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:19 PM   #102
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huh, i never noticed. i will have to watch them all over again and try and spot them.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:59 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by JRJENNINGS86
huh, i never noticed. i will have to watch them all over again and try and spot them.

A quick google search will tell you which eps to view.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:03 PM   #104
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Sci-Fi Scandal! Second Sy Snootles Speaks, Claims Lucas Was “Keeping Company” With First Snoot

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One of the more curious points uncovered by our research for said article concerned the timeline of the two most famous “Lapti Nek” recordings: While Internet resources generally suggest that the Michele Gruska “Club Mix” of the song was recorded and released after Lucasfilm lost the master tapes of the Annie Arbogast version actually heard in the film, several behind-the-scenes videos that predate Jedi’s completion (all easily found on YouTube) clearly feature variations of the Gruska recording.

If Lucasfilm already had a couple different takes of “Lapti Nek” under their belt by Gruska, including the widely released “Club Mix”, why did they drop Arbogast’s version into Jedi’s final cut? No disrespect to Annie—her “Lapti Nek” is spunky and classic, and she also wrote those delightfully wacky Huttese lyrics—but she was just an in-house sound engineer for Lucasfilm whereas Gruska was apparently an independently contracted professional session musician. An e-mail to Lucasfilm yielded no help (“I apologize, but I do not know the answer to that,” wrote PR person Amy). Intellectual curiosity growing by the minute, we tracked Michele Gruska down (via Facebook, of course) to see if she could drop some knowledge. Did she ever!

“I auditioned [in Los Angeles] to sing for Return of the Jedi, then they asked me to sing ‘Lapti Nek’ for the Jabba The Hutt scene,” wrote Gruska (pictured, left), who currently works as a vocal coach in California. “It was both another day’s work and challenging on two counts—one, learning this new made-up language on the spot was not too easy, [and] two, it was unnerving singing for [20th Century Fox music supervisor] Lionel Newman, THE John Williams, and George Lucas.”

Gruska got the job and, ecstatic, shuttled to San Francisco to record the final version(s) of “Lapti Nek” some time before Return of the Jedi was completed. So how did Annie Arbogast’s “Lapti Nek”, which can be assumed was merely a scratch track before Gruska was hired, wind up in the final cut?

“My version was definitely going in the scene,” remembers Gruska. “But unfortunately at the time the rumor was Anne was keeping company with George Lucas. Oh well.”

Scandalous, if true! Perhaps that explains why the Arbogast master tapes were mysteriously “lost” and why George later digitally scrubbed “Lapti Nek” out of every post-1997 Jedi release. Maybe the affair ended badly. On the other hand, there’s just as much reason to believe absolutely nothing ever went on between George and Annie in a non-professional capacity. Maybe George just thought Annie sounded more like an alien than Michele Gruska, so he put the former in the movie and saved the latter for the commercial vinyl releases (where polished, professional singing counts for more). Shame on you, Kevin Burns, for missing this subplot in your otherwise great Empire of Dreams documentary.

But I kid the Schenectady-born director who also helmed Behind the Planet of the Apes. The tales of Carrie Fisher partying all night with Harrison Ford and big handfuls of yay on the set of Empire Strikes Back are admittedly leagues more interesting than any canoodling that went on between the Supreme Beard and one of his underlings. Still, if either party wishes to come forward and refute (or confirm!) this wild accusation made by Michele Gruska, by all means hit us up. This story is sort of the Schwartzenegger love child deal of the Star Wars universe.
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Old 05-25-2011, 05:47 PM   #105
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Another Jedi song, an earlier take on Yub Nub...
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:15 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Wo...it was explicitly stated that the X-wings & Y-wings were old, outdated ships! (Can't recall the source, sorry.)

This is my recollection as well.

They might have been top of the line in their day but the kind of X-Wing Luke was flying was a "used model."
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:19 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
This is my recollection as well.

They might have been top of the line in their day but the kind of X-Wing Luke was flying was a "used model."
Indeed. If one looks closely at the ILM models, there are bits & pieces which are not white (ex. yellow & light blue/gray) which suggests they were patched together with spare parts.
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I have loads of official Lucasfilm guides to Star Wars, and they all say the same thing. The X-Wing was top of the line. In at least one report the Incom T-65 was a secret project that was snatched away from under Imperial noses, and handed to the Rebellion.
Poorly researched 'fan fiction' nonsense with the word "official" stamped onto it.
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Exactly, the Rebel ships are supposed to be cutting edge but vastly outnumbered by the inferior Tie Fighters who attack in swarms. The only reason the Rebel ships look beat up is because they cannot afford to worry about aesthetics like the Empire can. They have to worry about practicality not pomp and circumstance.
What the rebels "cannot afford" is a fleet of brand new, cutting edge, top-of-the-line, fighters. (At least, that was the story back in the late '70s.) Even the snowspeeders were originally planned to be modified, Y-wing cockpits because the idea was that the rebels didn't have enough cash to buy new ships.
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
In fact in TCU2 the Rebels still do not have X-Wings and that game is supposed to be like a year before ANH.
Just because they didn't have X-wings a year before "A New Hope" doesn't necessarily mean those fighters were the latest & greatest. After being crippled so badly, the Alliance must have acquired some outdated fighters out of sheer desepration.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:23 AM   #108
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there wouldn't be an aliance with out Starkiller. he didnt need no spaceship. i imagine if givne the chance, he could have crushed the Death Star with a snap of his finger. Luke is a wimp compared to Starkiller.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:15 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRJENNINGS86
there wouldn't be an aliance with out Starkiller. he didnt need no spaceship. i imagine if givne the chance, he could have crushed the Death Star with a snap of his finger. Luke is a wimp compared to Starkiller.

Starkiller is fun in a game but come on. Anakin has more "medichlorians" than Yoda and doesn't rip stardestroyers out of the sky. You have to amp things up for game play. But really? Starkillers the most powerful Jedi ever? That's kinda what the game implies if you compare ability levels to the movies. I like the character but comparing a movie character to one that has only appeared in EU is like comparing apples and oranges. Plus going off EU, Lukes no chump in the books after ROTJ.

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Old 06-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
Starkiller is fun in a game but come on. Anakin has more "medichlorians" than Yoda and doesn't rip stardestroyers out of the sky. You have to amp things up for game play. But really? Starkillers the most powerful Jedi ever? That's kinda what the game implies if you compare ability levels to the movies. I like the character but comparing a movie character to one that has only appeared in EU is like comparing apples and oranges. Plus going off EU, Lukes no chump in the books after ROTJ.


i know, i was trying to get a rise out of the hardcore fans. i enjoy TFU and TFU 2, however, nothing will comapre to the true stories. i do love how Starkiller helps fill the gap between the 3rd and 4th movie story lines though.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:45 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRJENNINGS86
i know, i was trying to get a rise out of the hardcore fans. i enjoy TFU and TFU 2, however, nothing will comapre to the true stories. i do love how Starkiller helps fill the gap between the 3rd and 4th movie story lines though.

Agreed, they do help progress the story between 3-4. Especially TFU 1.

Have you read the book? I read the first one. Its basically the game storyline but still a good read. TFU 2 was to easy to beat and needed a stronger story but still a good game.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:38 PM   #112
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oh yeah i read the books. both were good. i agree TFU 2 needed more to it. i can only hope that TFU 3, if there will be one, will conclude the tale of Starkiller and have hours of awesome game play and a gripping story.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:30 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Indeed. If one looks closely at the ILM models, there are bits & pieces which are not white (ex. yellow & light blue/gray) which suggests they were patched together with spare parts.
Poorly researched 'fan fiction' nonsense with the word "official" stamped onto it.
What the rebels "cannot afford" is a fleet of brand new, cutting edge, top-of-the-line, fighters. (At least, that was the story back in the late '70s.) Even the snowspeeders were originally planned to be modified, Y-wing cockpits because the idea was that the rebels didn't have enough cash to buy new ships.
Just because they didn't have X-wings a year before "A New Hope" doesn't necessarily mean those fighters were the latest & greatest. After being crippled so badly, the Alliance must have acquired some outdated fighters out of sheer desepration.

ok Stoo, you can keep believing that just as you still think Old Indy is canon . There is no sense arguing because no matter what we say you will ignore it.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:48 PM   #114
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Dr.Jones1986, I'm not really ignoring what you say but, rather, the changes to the movies that have taken place over the years.

Put it this way, I rarely refer to the 1977 film as "A New Hope" (yes, I know I did in my previous post) unless it's to not confuse the movie with the overall saga. To me, the film is called "Star Wars" like it was when it was released, in the same way that Han shot Greedo first and the X-wings were originally intended to be outdated ships.

Call it 'personal canon', if you will.

P.S. Are you back from Italy?
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:37 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Dr.Jones1986, I'm not really ignoring what you say but, rather, the changes to the movies that have taken place over the years.

Put it this way, I rarely refer to the 1977 film as "A New Hope" (yes, I know I did in my previous post) unless it's to not confuse the movie with the overall saga. To me, the film is called "Star Wars" like it was when it was released, in the same way that Han shot Greedo first and the X-wings were originally intended to be outdated ships.

Call it 'personal canon', if you will.

P.S. Are you back from Italy?

Ok I get where your coming from. I mean Lucas current versions are the offical canon...though that can change whenver he decides he wants to change things. That is the reason I stopped reading the books. His new cartoon show altered alot of the EU stuff.

Yes I just got back from Europe. I seem to remember you talking about seeing a volcano go off on an island off the coast. I saw Stromboli go off when I was in Italy very impressive. I assume this is the volcano you saw as well.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:02 AM   #116
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Now, that I'm back from Supanova, I would just like to geek out SW for this one post.

I got to meet my fave SW authors Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta (and got Kevin's autograph too!). My favourite series of theirs was the Young Jedi Knights series- I totally wish still had them after all this time, but alas, wasn't meant to be (the copies I had were worn out from too much moving and me constantly reading them as a kid).

But yeah, both very nice people.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:35 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Violet
I got to meet my fave SW authors Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta (and got Kevin's autograph too!)...But yeah, both very nice people.

Kevin is also one of my favourite SW authors. Reading his Tales books really brought back the feelings I had when reading Brian Daley's early expanded universe novels.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:58 PM   #118
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Does anyone believe this year's blu-ray edition will be the final changes to the Star Wars saga? Has anybody heard anything about changes besides digital Yoda in TPM and Luke's lightsaber construction in ROTJ?
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:37 AM   #119
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Are any of you guys excited about Star Wars Kinect and Star Wars The Old Republic?

Personally, I'm looking forward to the new Seth Green project for Lucasfilm Animation which is rumored to be called 'Star Wars Detours'. Plus the new trailer for SW Clone Wars season 4 is looking very close the ambiance of Revenge of the Sith.
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Old 06-26-2011, 01:38 AM   #120
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nope.....
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:15 PM   #121
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LEGO Star Wars TV special

A promo poster was spotted for an upcoming LEGO Star Wars TV special likely in late September.

Based on the popular video game series, the LEGO TV special is being created in addition to a second, previously announced Star Wars cartoon series. That new series has been given the following official update:

Today, George Lucas is hard at work on a second animated series that will complement 'The Clone Wars', taking 'Star Wars' in a completely new and fun direction.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:21 PM   #122
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A History of Jabba, from man to slug via walrus

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/jabba.html

From The Secret History of Star Wars by Michael Kaminski:

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Jabba the Hutt: "Wonderful Human Being"


Call this an attempt at a Star Wars myth-buster if you want, but the following issue has been one that I have wanted to investigate for some time now; that issue is the notion that Jabba the Hutt was always intended as an alien. His deleted scene in Star Wars has attracted much attention, and Lucas has long held that he intended to super-impose a creature into the scene and finally realized this with the 1997 Special Edition. Most people have never really called this into question since the only form we have ever known the character in is the gross slug from Return of the Jedi, so it seems natural--that, and the fat Irish "stand-in" seen in the original Star Wars footage is too ridiculous to be believed to have been sincerely considered.

But, I will argue that there is very persuasive evidence to show that Jabba was intended as a human gangster. The large Irish version seen in the original Star Wars, played by Declan Mulholland, seems a bit odd considering where the Jabba character was taken in Return of the Jedi , but without that context this early human version isn't that out of place. Comparatively ineffective, yes--and that I think is one of the reasons the scene was exercised to begin with. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here.

To begin with, we should examine what Lucas himself says about the scene:

"When I first shot the scene with Jabba the Hutt, I knew I was going to create some kind of stop-motion creature...I had to have somebody--an actor--play the part so Harrison had someone to play against, so we just picked a big guy and put him in a fuzzy vest. I, at that point, felt that he may be a character somewhat like Chewbacca, a big furry character. We shot that. As we were cutting the movie, [we] realized relatively quickly that we didn't have the time or the money to actually shoot that scene [the stop-motion optical]. That ILM was pressed way beyond what it could pull off as it was. So I had to abandon that sequence pretty early on. I had to cut back on special effects shots and that sort of thing because ILM just couldn't handle it." (Making Magic CD-ROM)

Now, this seems perfectly believable at first glance--and yet, no one has ever corroborated this story. On the other hand, evidence and documentation from the time of production seems to speak of a very different version--that actor Declan Mulholland was the genuine article.

For starters, actor Declan Mulholland's costume is just that--a complete costume. On a rather modestly-budgeted film such as Star Wars, where the budget was constantly scaled back to maximize every penny, it is very strange that designer John Mollo created and outfitted a complete costume, especially when the budget was being stretched past its limits as it was; and if the "stand-in" was meant to represent an alien, why is the costume consistent design-wise with all the other "scum and villainy" of the space-port? Lucas talks about Mulholland wearing a "fuzzy vest" to represent a furry creature, but in fact the vest is simply one part of a fully decked-out costume that is perfectly in keeping with the other characters of the location; in fact, the pelt vest is part of the "old west" cowboy style of costuming for the Mos Eisley sequence, and if you watch films like Rio Bravo you will see the same sort of costume on display. Not only that, casting director Dianne Crittenden was involved in finding a suitable actor, as Declan Mulholland was a prominent character actor in the UK. He wasn't just a stand-in: Declan Mulholland was meant to be the real thing.



More importantly, while John Mollo and Dianne Crittenden were involved in creating this Declan Mulholland Jabba, there is absolutely no indication that ILM was. Jonathan Rinzler's meticulous book uncovers not a single meeting, nor even a single reference , to Jabba the Hutt even being considered a special effect at this time, nor does any source contemporary to the film's release--nor, in fact, does any source outside of Lucas himself. Not only that, before the scene was ever filmed, when all the other elements of the film were designed, the Jabba creature would have to be designed--but there are no Jabba designs. Only John Mollo's costume sketches (this will be discussed later).

Taking this further, anyone who has worked in post-production would instantly recognize that the way in which the scene was filmed is not at all appropriate for visual effects. There were no plates shot for background elements, and the unrestrained interaction between Han and Jabba--touching each other, physically overlapping, walking around each other--is far beyond any technology available in 1977. In fact, even in the 1997 Special Edition ILM computer wizards had a very hard time restoring the sequence with a superimposed creature, an effort which consumed nearly a year of work using state of the art digital technology--the scene is simply shot without any regard for visual effects. And not only that, there was no visual effects supervisor on-set: a practically mandatory requirement for any special-pass or visual effects elements. ILM was also shooting all of its live-action special-pass optical shots using the Vistavision format, in order to gain quality when ILM composited the extra optical--but the Jabba scene was shot using regular 35mm Panavision cameras. In short, there is no indication from the way the scene was made that there was any consideration for a special effect, and no documented efforts to design or attempt this "creature" were ever made.

But what of the technical issues Lucas maintains plagued the scene? Well, there were indeed technical issues that complicated its filming--but these were not effects-related. They were camera related: lens issues. Often times scenes will have to be re-filmed when the dailies are screened due to focus issues, either by faulty lens optics or simple human error of the focus puller. Gary Kurtz remembers:

"Well, the original idea was that [the Jabba scene] was supposed to be there. It is in the script ... but it was a guy, a human being, this sort of fat guy... looked a bit like Sydney Greenstreet... and the scene is pretty much, I mean dialogue wise, it's exactly what you see in the Special Edition. But it was a person that was there, and we had technical difficulties with that scene. We shot it over three times for camera problems, focus problems, and film stock problem, and then abandoned it because we ran out of time. We just said, "Well, the bulk of the information that comes across in that scene, about Jabba threatening Han Solo and wanting his money and all of that, we could get across in the scene in the Cantina, with Greedo." It's basically the same kind of information. So we just added some bits to the Greedo scene to make it a little bit longer that gets across that information, and then jettisoned that other scene. This all happened while we were shooting. It wasn't done in the cutting room."
(http://movies.ign.com/articles/376/376873p3.html)

The Making of Star Wars seems to corroborate some of this, stating that the daily production reports indicate a faulty 40mm lens caused difficulty during the shooting of the docking bay scenes the week of Monday, April 12th, 1976, although it's unclear if this is second-unit or not (p. 167).

As to the scene's deletion from the film, we again find an answer that is entirely unrelated to any sort of "creature" complication: the scene simply wasn't necessary. With Greedo already confronting Han on behalf of Jabba, it was redundant. The Making of Star Wars claims that it was because ILM didn't get the stop-motion Jabba created in time (p.232)--but no one can corroborate this. Not only that, there is no evidence that it was ever attempted, not even in the meticulously detailed Making of Star Wars itself. All that editor Richard Chew says about its deletion in that book is: "George also thought there were too many phony-looking green Martians that looked like Greedo in the background." (p. 232) Indeed there was. Editor Marcia Lucas gives us the most detailed account in John Peecher's 1983 book:

"Jabba was a big debatable item. George had never liked the scene Jabba was in because he felt that the casting was never strong enough. There was an element, however, that I liked a lot because of the way George had filmed it. Jabba was seen in a long shot and he was yelling, while in the foreground, in a big close-up, Han's body wiped into the left corner of the frame and his hand was on a gun and he said, 'I've been waiting for you, Jabba.' Then we cut to Han's face and Jabba turned around. I thought it was a very verile moment for Han's character; it made him a real macho guy, and Harrison's performance was very good. I lobbied to keep the scene. But Jabba was not terrific, and Jabba's men, who all looked like Greedo, were made of molded green plastic. George thought they looked pretty phony, so he had two reasons for wanting to cut the scene: the appearance of Jabba's men and the pacing of the movie. You have to pick up the pacing in an action movie like Star Wars , so ultimately, the scene wasn't necessary." (p. 89)

Lucas himself even alludes to this: "The scene with Greedo tells the same story, which is Han is wanted by a bounty hunter and that's his motivation for taking these guys on this trip." (Making Magic CD-ROM)

Last edited by Montana Smith : 07-04-2011 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:22 PM   #123
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Continued...

Quote:
But we may only turn to the script itself to discover the obvious. When the script was publically released in 1979's The Art of Star Wars it was forged--"Episode IV A New Hope" was added to the title, but there was more than that: some of the content was altered as well. By 1979, when the script was released, Lucas had made plans to showcase Jabba in the third film (as evident by Lando's last line in Empire referencing rescuing the frozen Han Solo from Jabba), and by then had re-developed him as an outrageous slug alien--the description here is an early one, two years before the Return of the Jedi art department developed him in 1981. This 1979 "public" version of "A New Hope"'s screenplay included the discarded Jabba scene:

INT. DOCKING BAY 94 - DAY

Jabba the Hut and a half-dozen grisly alien pirates and purple creatures stand in the middle of the docking bay. Jabba is the grossest of the slavering hulks and his scarred face is a grim testimonial to his prowess as a vicious killer. He is a fat, slug-like creature with eyes on extended feelers and a huge ugly mouth.

JABBA
Come on out Solo!

But in fact, this is a subtle alteration--the real script has no reference to him being an alien. All that is said is that he is a hulking and gross gangster--very much like actor Declan Mulholland was cast as. From the actual revised fourth draft:

AA53. INT. DOCKING BAY 94 - DAY

Jabba the Hut and a half dozen grisly pirates and purple aliens stand in the middle of the docking bay. Jabba is the grossest of the salivering hulks and his scarred face is a grim testimonial to his prowess as a vicious killer.

JABBA
Come on out Solo!

When Han Solo thanks him as "a wonderful human being", audiences in 1997 thought it was a clever bit of irony. But the line originally had a more literal meaning. Han was still being sarcastic--the joke is not that Jabba's not a human being, but that he's not a "wonderful " one; it's false courtesy being shown to a criminal that earlier in the day sent an assassin to kill him.

But what of Lucas' claims about wanting to replace the human actor with a stop-motion puppet? Where do such claims originate from? Is there any validity to this element? There may be, actually. To loop back around to the very beginning here, let's go back to the mid-70's. Lucas says that he originally envisioned Jabba as an alien--this is not unbelievable, at least on face value. Perhaps not the over-the-top slug of Return of the Jedi--if Declan Mulholland and the shooting script are any indication of descent from a hypothetical original concept, he's fat and menacing and dangerous, sort of like the Kingpin character from Spiderman; if he was to be an alien, he need not be as over-the-top outrageous as the giant slug from Jedi . Likely, he was conceived in slightly more realistic terms, perhaps simply as an actor in makeup or with an animatronic mask (which is sort of the impression that Alan Dean Foster's novelization gives--that book described Jabba in human terms but more exaggerated than the result Declan Mulholland provided, describing Jabba's hanging jowls shaking when he laughs). But it certainly is allowable that Lucas had first thought up the character as some kind of obese alien crime pirate.

However, budget cuts had a profound influence on the fourth draft screenplay--here, the film had now been green-lit and moved into pre-production, and Lucas had to confront practical reality and make some judicial changes with cost and feasibility in mind. The art department also had much of its budget scaled back at this point. So, perhaps, instead of an obese alien crime pirate, which would have required some sort of mask, or perhaps even a stop-motion puppet, Jabba was scaled down into an obese human crime pirate instead.

Lens problems plagued the scene first, and then editorial problems plagued it in post-production. At this stage the stop-motion idea comes into the picture--Lucas states in The Making of Return of the Jedi that he was contemplating requesting extra money from Fox to shoot a stop-motion puppet to matte in over Declan Mulholland, and that when this was denied the scene was dropped (see below).

Part or all of this may or may not be true--it seems slightly dubious. For one, Lucas ought to have been aware of the impracticality and downright impossibility to accomplish this, given the way the scene was shot--even if he genuinely believed it could be done, he would have quickly found out upon attempt that this would not work, thus Jabba would remain as written and shot as a person. However, another reason to doubt this, at least in the manner Lucas tells it, is because the request to shoot additional material came long after the Jabba scene was totally dropped. As stated, the scene was among the early material cut in 1976, back when Marcia Lucas was still working on the edit, however it was not until early 1977 that Lucas proposed to Fox to film additional material to liven up the film, among them reshots of much of the cantina footage. The only explanation reconcileable here is that Lucas briefly contemplated resurrecting the already-deleted Jabba scene with his stop-motion idea, but then discarded this notion when Fox denied him the money to do so. Lucas tells his version of the story in John Peecher's 1983 book The Making of Return of the Jedi:

"The original idea was that he'd be a monster. But then we couldn't make him a monster, so we cast him as a human. I was going to superimpose or matte in a monster over the actor. I asked Fox for extra money for more creatures in the Cantina, to shoot some more stuff in the desert, and also to do this bluescreen Jabba to fit into that scene. I needed about $80,000 to do it all, and Fox said: 'We'll give you 40.' So we actually cut the scene out before we got to the point of shooting the monster part. If I had the money, I might have shot it anyway. If it still didn't work, I'd probably have cut it out." (p.89-90)

It should be noted, however, that all that has ever been talked about by anyone regarding these re-shoots is the cantina close-ups and Tatooine pick-ups. Gary Kurtz, in The Making of Star Wars , goes into detail about how negotiating the budget for the cantina pick-ups was a big deal because of the expensive monster masks, but is silent about an item as significant as attempting to budget Jabba as a special effect.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:23 PM   #124
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However, the hypothesis that Jabba may have been first conceived of as an alien and then scaled back into a human is also contradicted by the earliest drafts of the script. It is curious that this "original" monster depiction is absent from the earliest writings--even the ones from the second draft, when Lucas was more unrestrained with his imagination and less conscious of budget issues. The earliest reference to Jabba comes from a writing note made for the second draft, probably in late 1974, for a scene that was never written: "Jabba in prison cell." In draft two, Han Solo has to outwit a space pirate named Jabba the Hutt--so the character that was written and filmed in 1976 is basically the same character as his first depiction. In fact, his description in this second draft is almost identical to his description in draft revised-four:

Two gruff and grisly pirates are playing a kind of dice game with thin little sticks. The larger and mangiest of the two slavering hulks, JABBA THE HUTT by name, throws his dice at Chewbacca.

This second draft sees Han serving on a pirate ship under Jabba the Hutt, whom he tricks into giving him the ship to transport Luke (Han fakes a reactor overload, causing Jabba and the crew to flee, allowing Han to steal the ship). In draft three, this scene is reprised, only now it is in Mos Eisley. Just after Han agrees to transport Ben and Luke, he bumps into Jabba and his men. Jabba intimidates Han into taking a job for him since Jabba helped build his ship; Han, clearly outgunned, agrees, but he cleverly tricks Jabba through sabotage and steals the ship as a transport for Luke and Ben. Once again, Jabba is described as per draft two.

A commotion filters down from the entry gantry and Chew- bacca whines pessimistic comment. A dozen or so gruff and grisly pirates approach the ship. The grossest of the slavering hulks is JABBA THE HUTT. His scarred face is a grim testimonial to his prowess as a vicious killer.

HAN
You're back early.


JABBA
A shipment of Covina just took off for Gordon. I thought we might reroute it back here.

He laughs maniacally. Han is not amused.

HAN
You'll have to get yourself another boy, Jabba. I've got a charter.

JABBA
Forget it. We settled this before, remember? There's no getting out. Now get this 'can' started...

It's a moment of great tension. Han glances at the four pirates standing near them. Two of the greasy brigands have their weapons pointed at him. The young starcaptain stands firm for a few moments with his hand resting on his utility belt only inches from his blaster. Chewbacca sways back and forth as he adjusts his weight from one foot to the other.

JABBA
Well??

Han turns and reluctantly boards the ship. Jabba walks alongside Han and puts his arm around him.

JABBA
Han, after all we've been through, I'm disappointed we're not closer. You're getting soft now that the ship's finished. You may have built this bucket, but never forget who paid for it, 'cause if you try to take her out again, I won't be so understanding.

As Han and the pirates are about to depart from the docking bay in the pirate ship, Han jams a piece of metal in the engine, causing smoke and fire. The crew runs out of the ship and Han signals for Luke, Ben and the droids to get onboard.

59. EXT. MOS EISLEY SPACEPORT - ALLEYWAY - NIGHT

A lumbering Jabba the Hutt and the remains of his terrified crew stop in the street and try to collect themselves.

JABBA
What happened? Han? Montross, where's Han? Montross? Where is everybody?

A strange assortment of alien creatures and robots watch Jabba from their cool alcoves along the edge of the street. The ground trembles and the pirates turn to see the mighty pirate starship riding above the dingy slum dwellings. The pirates stand dumbfounded, as the starship quickly disappears.

JABBA
He took the ship. He took the ship!!

The next draft eliminated Jabba in favor of Han and co. being stopped as they are about to leave by an Imperial Bureaucrat named Montross, whom Han outfoxes. The revised fourth draft changed the heroes tense escape from an Imperial bureaucrat to being confronted by stormtroopers, but it also brought back the Jabba character to better define Han. Han is now the owner of the ship, simplifying the side-story of him working with a gang of space pirates, but like in the third draft, Jabba has come to collect an old debt, now with an additional scene involving Greedo.

So, as you see, though Lucas' previous description seems to be legitimate, there is indeed very good reason to still doubt it. Jabba was envisioned from the beginning as a hulking space pirate--and apparently human. The only possibility one gets from this history through the drafts is that perhaps Jabba as an "alien" would simply be a human actor with a few bumps and prosthetics glued on his face like the original Star Trek series often did. But even still, this is a far cry from a creature so outrageous that it requires a special effect to portray the character--and if Lucas had indeed conceived a more simplistic alien angle, he probably would have been able to portray this in the shoot. John Mollo did a sketch for Jabba like this while he was designing the costume, making him a scrawny humanoid with a third eye, (Rinzler, p. 111) but Lucas must have rejected this in favor of the "gross hulk" as the script describes, though, as Marcia Lucas states, the casting of Declan Mulholland as this original version was not as strong as envisioned.



In all likelihood, Lucas came up with the matted-in creature idea after the scene had been already been shot, possibly in time for the request for additional footage in early 1977, or possibly not, explaining why the scene was filmed with Declan Mulholland in mind as the genuine article. Whenever the idea germinated, it was before November 1979, when the alien-Jabba was integrated into the Art of Star Wars screenplay, and before July, 1977--in that month, the comic adaptation of the film was released, featuring a humanoid-alien Jabba (probably designed at the artist's discretion solely on the instruction of "make Jabba an alien"--Lou Tambone believes the artists simply recycled one of the cantina designs).



Lucas admits in the Making Magic CD-ROM that at the time the scene was shot, Phil Tippet, who was doing the stop-motion for the film (ie the holographic chess pieces), had not yet designed a creature, and that, as he saw ILM being pushed past their limits, he let go of the idea of attempting a stop-motion creature--perhaps indicating the idea was a spontaneous one that came to him in post-production but quickly dissipated due to its total impracticality, only to be feasible for Return of the Jedi and the Special Edition years later when it was properly planned.

(note: I also believe that the matted-in puppet idea was attempted in 1981 when Return of the Jedi was in pre-production; storyboards were comissioned, seen on Lou Tambone's page, showing how an early Jabba concept (this one with feet, to allow walking with Han), could potentially be matted in to the original discarded scene. Perhaps this was done with the 1981 re-release in mind, which also contained the addition of having Episode IV A New Hope in the title crawl. The Jabba design here coresponds with Jedi pre-production artwork circa 1981, as does the inclusion of Salacious Crumb.)



09/15/08








And now preserved for posterity in The Raven!
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:25 PM   #125
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Love ribbing me Irish cousins that Jabba the Hutt is Irish!
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