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Old 04-12-2003, 01:27 PM   #1
swords
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I just read this idea from one of the members at the Indyfan forum, and it sounds fantastic. Spielberg used a very high dosage of the bleach bypass effect for both Saving Private Ryan and Minority Report, it involves the drainage of colour. It has been used for other films too, such as Pitch Black. I never knew what it was called before, but I did notice the difference in the picture when watching Saving Private Ryan and Minority Report, the colour scheme is definitely toned down to the point of pale and dark complextion.

Now I don't know if I defined "bleach bypass" correctly, but I know what it drives at, and Spielberg's SPR is an example of it. And like the other member said at the other forum, it gives a dirty, gritty look, could we possibly see this effect in Indy 4? An kind of innovated grittiest in comparison, yet contrasted to, Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Or is it perhaps an too extreme approach, that it might dampen the picture if you will?

Well I certainly prefer this to digital perfection...
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Old 04-14-2003, 05:12 PM   #2
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i`m completely with you.

that dirty style would fit perfectly to the adventure and (now) 50s look of indy4.
indeed all the films of the trilogies have been grainy and dirty...

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Old 04-14-2003, 05:46 PM   #3
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I don't think it would really work for Indy. The trilogy always had a slightly unfinished, imperfect quality to it, with something intanglible to Raiders, Temple being somewhat reminiscent of those old 50's claymation action scenes (you know, Sinbad, Jason, and all of that), and Crusade having factual errors everywhere.

I think the bleach bypass effect looks too "professional," if that's the word.
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Old 04-14-2003, 07:28 PM   #4
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Good points. I agree with torao, and yet I understand what Attila's driving at. The Saving Private Ryan look was achieved simply my munipulation of the picture(if thats a appropriate way of describing it), which was simply achieved by technical aspects. The Raiders look is more authentic I guess.

In case no one's seen Saving Private Ryan, heres some screenshots:

http://www.beaconschool.org/~kmadera/index2.html

Beware, theres kind of a graphic shot near the bottom[rather quickly I looked for a site with a bunch of shots, just to show what it looks like]

So hopefully if anybody knows how the bleaching process works by all means post it, if not this is what I mean. Heads up to the guy at the other forum if he's reading this, I like your suggestion.

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Old 04-14-2003, 10:31 PM   #5
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I want Indy 4 to look like Indy 1-3. I don't like the idea of meshing that idea with the last Indiana Jones movie.
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:49 PM   #6
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a pretty good explanation:

http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/html/bleach_bypass.html


well...you could be right attila! i think i maybe was a bit wrong with my imagination of what it finally really looks like because that bleach bypass effect doesn`t make the picture more grainy looking(though i had that in mind too from spr or mr). so i think they should use that filter(if there`s anything like that) that could make it more grainy and could include some flaws into the pic. maybe there are any experts around here who have a good knowledge on that and can help us...
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Old 04-16-2003, 03:57 PM   #7
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Thanks for the link, I understand the process a lot better. So it's not really a manipulation of the picture so to speak, more like a draw back on colour saturation.

Well since I presented the idea in the first place, I feel obliged to support it, and not that it's a burden or anything, but I truly believe it would fit an Indiana Jones adventure. I guess it's really just a question who has more say in the matter, already SS has said no to GL's filming it digitally, in fact now this option is open if they want to do it. Has anybody seen MR? Spielberg intended it to be film noirish, and the bleach bypassing certianly helped.

Not that Indiana Jones is in that category, it's not a film noir, but the technique still works for other gendres, as Minority Report held some adventure and action and looked just as good on screen using this process. It didn't detract from the action at all, in fact I found it added to it(or maybe it's just Spielberg's direction Im praising here!), well direction or camera colour scheme, they both were executed well.

But not like I would complain if they just used the ordinary process, as you two have explained already.






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Old 04-16-2003, 04:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Attila the Professor
I don't think it would really work for Indy. The trilogy always had a slightly unfinished, imperfect quality to it, with something intanglible to Raiders, Temple being somewhat reminiscent of those old 50's claymation action scenes (you know, Sinbad, Jason, and all of that), and Crusade having factual errors everywhere.

I think the bleach bypass effect looks too "professional," if that's the word.

I agree with you in that I am not for this bleach bypass, but for a different reason:

-It would through the whole series off! we go from LC to indy 4, with VERY different film quality!!! I just don't think it's for indy, indy's not that kind of film, if they had done that for raiders, I would be annoyed by it

and I didn't like the film quality of SPR and MR
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Old 05-03-2003, 05:18 PM   #9
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i surely hope Spielberg will use another dp for INDY 4 cuz i hate Kasminski's work.
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Old 05-03-2003, 10:01 PM   #10
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Kasminski just rang a bell for me and apparently theres already a thread which I seemed to have innocently stolen as a idea for this thread, just no mention of Kasminski(forgive me:

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/sh...?threadid=3708

Hmmm, am I the only one who likes his transfer? Seriously though, if you had to choose between filming it digitally or this, which one would be more ideal? I already explained why its a good idea, but we'll see what the future has in store.

In other words, I want a good arguement in support of this opposition(of my thread). Already it was noted that it is "too professional", but filmaking is for professionals.

I will predict that we will be seeing this style in Indy 4.

Yep, Steven Spielberg is going to have it this way, who doesn't think so and why?
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Old 05-10-2003, 09:29 PM   #11
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star wars ot was just as gritty as indiana jones. look at anh...its grittier than rotla. the gritty look makes it more realistic. when i watch an 80s film i often end up reminding myself an hour after its over that it wasnt real. now i see stuff with cgi and morphing and im like...dude that is so fake. the new star wars everything in them works perfectly and no blaster shots make marks on the walls. in the ot, han solo has to hit the millennium falcon just to get it to work, and even then it rarely does. thats the realness of the sw ot and indy.
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Old 05-11-2003, 10:05 AM   #12
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I need a defintion of what "ot" is, Im not familiar. From what you posted, I think I agree with you.
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:12 AM   #13
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ot = original trilogy
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Old 05-11-2003, 01:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by NileQT87-Solo_Baggins
star wars ot was just as gritty as indiana jones. look at anh...its grittier than rotla. the gritty look makes it more realistic. when i watch an 80s film i often end up reminding myself an hour after its over that it wasnt real. now i see stuff with cgi and morphing and im like...dude that is so fake. the new star wars everything in them works perfectly and no blaster shots make marks on the walls. in the ot, han solo has to hit the millennium falcon just to get it to work, and even then it rarely does. thats the realness of the sw ot and indy.


you´re damn right, nile.
imo blade runner is also a great example for that grainy and dirty look that gives those films a very special reality and coolness. it`s just the best to use for a adventure flick as indiana jones...
but i`m pretty sure steven will do the right things to create the indy-adventure-atmosphere. at least i try to be that sure....*sigh*



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Old 05-11-2003, 11:52 PM   #15
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I think Kaminski's work takes too much of a flashy showcase though. It takes my attention completely from the movie. I started that last topic, and I think Indy 4 should look in sync with the other three. That's just me.
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Old 05-12-2003, 06:09 PM   #16
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I noticed also that Kaminski jerks the camera a bit, thats a little irritating I agree.
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Old 05-22-2003, 06:11 PM   #17
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I would hope that Spielberg doesn't opt for the bleachy, highly contrast images he has used since [bold]SAVING PRIVATE RYAN[/bold] - it is totally inappropriate for an Indy adventure. He may go for more sepia, amber tones...who knows.

Even [bold]MINORITY REPORT[/bold], a good film overall, is hard to watch - it gives you a headache with its nearly monochromatic images.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tennessee Buck
I would hope that Spielberg doesn't opt for the bleachy, highly contrast images he has used since [bold]SAVING PRIVATE RYAN[/bold] - it is totally inappropriate for an Indy adventure. He may go for more sepia, amber tones...who knows.

Even [bold]MINORITY REPORT[/bold], a good film overall, is hard to watch - it gives you a headache with its nearly monochromatic images.

How about, maybe "Catch Me If You Can?" type colouring? Or is that instead too bright?
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:45 PM   #19
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I agree with Tenasee Buck that it should not be as bleachy as Private Ryan, because "Ryan" was a war movie and it was apropriate to bleach it becuase it makes it look dark and gritty, but for an Indy film? no, because Indy is not a serious film like "Ryan" or "BoB"(band of brothers).
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Old 05-23-2003, 09:46 AM   #20
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I have to agree a little with swords on this one. I was watching On of the three last week and I noticed the originals films have an almost animated look about them (maybe it is because of the transfer). I think the colors of an adventure series should reflect that sort of surrealistic nature, not be gritty and bleached out.
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:02 AM   #21
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Hmmmm, Apalehorse thats what I want, I want it gritty and bleached out.



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