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Old 10-17-2008, 03:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiestarr
My only real complaint about Crystal Skull is that the last shot is just Mutt hanging out in the Chapel. Why not open it up and see Indy and Marion cascading down the stairs and driving a way???

Yeah, that last shot feels pretty hollow. If one of these two movies had to be the franchise ender, TLC is the choice because of what the image on the screen meant. Riding off in the sunset was a firm "Goodbye", ending the series, whereas Skull leaves you wondering if it was the end or a new beginning.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:45 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Niteshade007
if I have to choose between the two, I'll go with Kingdom, but only because it shows Indy and Marion together again. I really can't think of a better reason (or really, any reason) other than that.
That's a strong reason in my world. After all, I've been waiting 28 years for them to get together again.



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Old 10-17-2008, 03:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Indy's brother
No contest.



Indeed that's the best.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:26 PM   #29
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LC definitely feels more like a finale...mainly because that's the way Spielberg approached it. By comparison, KOTCS feels more like a re-introduction to the character.

Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford are all open to making another film, and that's something they obviously discussed before moving forward on Indy 4. After the lengthy wait for KOTCS, they have no reason to string anyone alone with empty promises.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by FILMKRUSC
The franchsie ends best with Last Crusade.

I won't even be adding KOTCS to my dvd collection at all.

this is an attitude i don't really get. These adventures are just one of many different ones for Indy. And these just so happen to be the four we've been along for (movie wise). that's how i see it anyway. really the "franchise" just started with the original movies. the TV show and books/comics were still to come. i don't see it like Star Wars which is the movies then "extended uni", everything is just part of it.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:33 PM   #31
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Visually the last shot of Crusade is better methinks, though I've always felt that up to that point its a little bit rushed, I mean they only left the grail temple less then three minutes before.

Overall I think I prefer Crystal skull, well the third time I saw it anyway, as a Young Indy fan, and I said this before, I think KOTCS was the rounded out ending needed for who Indy is because of Young Indy. Young Indy sort of made Indy more real for me, we got to see his life, and his large amount of tragic love affairs, whenever he thought he found love it was swept away from him, usually under the most tragic of circumstances.

So basically, while I watched the wedding scene of Crystal Skull for the third time, I was thinking of all the times Indy had fallen in love, how he has always been such a lonely figure, and so it was I had a huge grin on my face as he finally got the girl. Probably a young indy fan thing I suppose, Indy's real to me, whenever I'm studying early 20th century history a little childish part of my mind always pipes up with 'wheres indy at this moment?' before settling back down to play with its toys. So yes. Thats a very long winded way of saying : Thats why I was really really happy for Indiana Jones in a way I wasn't at the end of Crusade. It felt like an ending.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:46 PM   #32
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:48 PM   #33
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I'd have to agree w/ most when I say LC's ending was simply grand and had a real sense of finality.

I liked the ending of KOTCS, and it fit well within the context of the film. As for the series as a whole, KOTCS's ending has a sense of subtle 'finality' as well: Indy gets married and discovers a son, not ending his adventures, but having a sense of there is something else in life to look forward to now that his dad and closest companions have gone on.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:22 PM   #34
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Well...obviously Last Crusade's adventage is that it ended the series first
Didn't everyone who likes Last Crusade knew that it would be impossible to top the epic finale that the film (as a whole) presented to the series. The depiction of Indy's origin, the introduction of Henry Jr.'s existential Daddy issues and showing how he eventually comes to terms with them, including a number of little hints (such as the title) that this is indeed the last movie or that Indy's is not exactly getting younger...all of those aspects made a perfect ending to me.

Many described CS as an epilogue. And maybe that's the best way to justify and explain how it works/may work as a closing chapter.

I personally despise the very ending of Crystal Skull. At first I thought it was the basic premise of Indy's and Marion's wedding that made me dislike it. But after reading Darabont's version of it I came to the conclusion that what makes it not work in Skull is a) the low point/passage of the movie that are the thirty minutes leading up to it and b) the average (in German I'd call it spießig) way Indy's final union with Marion plays out. I don't like everything about Darabont's wedding scene but I prefer the tone he sets. It's romantic. He gives them a song... it's night ...the stars are shining...they're dancing. As the romantic scenes between Indy and Marion are close to non-existent in this installment this would have been a great opportunity to make up for it.

It's obviously a distinct choice to show Indy's religious wedding ceremony, especially considering the close encounters he had with supernatural powers, christian artefacts and alie...uh...interdimensional beings. I appreciate that this is saying something about Indy as a person. But that's the only thing about it i find intriguing about the whole wedding scene.

It starts with Indy's gown. Somehow it makes him look twenty years older. But that's nitpicking. What makes it worse for me is how the wedding does not only emphasize Indy's and Marion's love but also the union of the happy happy Jones family (Indy and Mutt's simultaneous answer and their laugh afterwards made me lower my sight and shake my head in shame and disbelief when I first had to see it. Would this be Indy's fate? Is this Indy? Or is it somebody's dream sequence? The lighting may indicate that.). I just don't buy that this is the end to the story of the great Indiana Jones. I'm repeating myself now. But at this point the Raiders March has lost all of its meaning.
Just on a purely emotional level I don't associate the Raiders March with Henry Jones Jr. in that Chapel or vice versa.

Quote:
My only real complaint about Crystal Skull is that the last shot is just Mutt hanging out in the Chapel. Why not open it up and see Indy and Marion cascading down the stairs and driving a way???

And then there's that.

The beauty of the ride into the sunset is that the future is unknown and that all of Indy's great adventures come to mind while the Raiders March soars. There's an adventurous feeling about it. When the Camera just stays focused on Mutt while everyone's leaving ...I felt nothing but a slight bewilderment what this means...
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:44 PM   #35
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The moment where Indy grabs his fedora and grins makes that entire sequence, imo. It's one of the best parts of the entire film.

So perhaps it should've ended with his grin, followed by a fade-out as Indy exits the church? I'm not sure why they held on Mutt, although it wasn't really a dealbreaker for me.

I realize how the overall tone of the wedding probably bedeviled 2008 audiences, but it was pretty apt for a 1950's ending. (Even the lighting.)

Incidentally, one of the producers happened to mention (on the dvd) that the film begins in fall, while the wedding is intended to be taking place in spring. I'm not sure how 'official' we can consider that...but it's kind've interesting to think that the film may actually be ending in 1958.
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:17 AM   #36
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Crusade's Finale is miles ahead.
Kotcs ends as a cheap Hallmark Channel family movie. Give me at least a shot of the outside! Adventure moves better there!

As Torao says, Darabont was better oriented when he wrote his ending, wedding included. Smart twists to connect the last scenes and close the whole structure, if not of a saga, at least of the movie.

Still, this Kotcs ending seems to point to one more movie in the future to make it right.
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:41 AM   #37
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Crusade...should never even be compared to CS. It's no contest.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:09 AM   #38
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Gotta go for "Crusade."
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:29 AM   #39
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Come on..................


the ride into the sunset.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:28 AM   #40
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Indeed, sunset wins.

It's somewhat interesting to compare the different endings.

KotCS - Wedding, Happiness, all is right with the world, back in civilization

ToD - Children's return, happiness, all is right with the world, still on site

RotLA - Bureaucratic fools, Drink, back in civilization, Top Men

LC - slight sense of melancholy, dash of humor, exciting vamp as they ride into sunset.


In comparison, I find CS's ending mostly in line with ToD in the sense of overwhelming joy, except it's compounded by being back in civilization. Raiders ended with all very much NOT right with the world, and LC ended with the aforementioned attributes.

All 4 are fine endings, it just boils down to personal preference. In just comparing LC and CS, I find LC's far more compelling within the Indiana Jones framework because it has an exciting, " **** happened, our work is done here, let's GO!" whereas CS I find says something more in line with, "Well, it's over. Happiness and cheer abound!"
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:31 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torao

When the Camera just stays focused on Mutt while everyone's leaving ...I felt nothing but a slight bewilderment what this means...

I think you're over analysing. It's just an overhead fixed camera shot of everybody leaving the church. A pleasant happy understated ending.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caats
i don't see it like Star Wars which is the movies then "extended uni", everything is just part of it.

On the terms of expanded universe stuff, I think SW hs gone over board and ruined things, I don't really consider the young IJ adventures, as they don't interest me (don't hate em, just don't really care for), thou if its canon - fine, doesn't bother me). I do see Fate of Atlantis however as canon as it was so good (and it even made itself refered to in the journal book that can be bought, detailing notes and such from all 4 Indy films, and then some. I was susprised Atlantis featured.

Personally, despite any visuals, I think the moral of appreciating life and the fact Indy and his dad essentialy let eternal life go, is a lot more touching and epic, than Indy and Marion's marriage - in the terms of ending the IJ movie franchise. I like the wedding in context of KOTCS, but I don't think it is the best for the franchises movie ending, it doesn't seem very epic or thought provoking as is, eternal life - would you be willing to throw it away, or would you have learned to appreciate what you have after seeing others die wanting eternal life.

KOTCS as a movie franchise ender just seems "Indy and Marion finally get it together, there may be another movie because Indy reclaims his hat". It isn't thought provoking on the same level, or that epic I don't think. And as mentioned, the Raiders March t Mutt stood there...it isn't exciting, or thought provoking really, only "if there is a 5th, will Marion and Mutt be dragged along?".

Btw a point about TLC ending quick - after they leave the temple, I've thought that, but if you think about it, the ending of Raiders is essentially quick after the finale, TOD's is, and so is KOTC's - they see aliens, don't think much of it, and then the wedding proceeds. All of them probably end a bit too quick.

Last edited by Benraianajones : 10-18-2008 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #43
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I agree to the most people here: The franchies ends best with Last Crusade.
What a great ending!!!

The end of "Skull" is just embarrassing. A marriage?

"Crusade" is still the end! And what a end!!!!
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankara

"Crusade" is still the end! And what a end!!!!

KOTCS is the official current ending of the Jones saga, until next time.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankara

"Crusade" is still the end!...
Incorrect.

This is...

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Old 10-18-2008, 06:26 PM   #46
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Funny you should talk about life so much, Ben (can I call you Ben?) because you could apply that to the endings. Last Crusade is like the perfect ending of one life, while Crystal Skull is like a long-awaited resurrection. I think it works better this way considering the nineteen-year gap than if there had been several movies in between the two. We are jumping headfirst into an entirely different world than last we saw. The old one is over. I can't really find good words for it... it made sense in my head though.
Also with your life theme, I think Crystal Skull's ending would have been better if they hadn't cut the scene right before the wedding. You may already know this, but after Dean Stanforth gets the Bible, he talks to a photo of Marcus Brody and basically says "I wish you could be here to see this day - but perhaps you are." He is late with the Bible which prompts Oxley's comment about "how much human life is lost in waiting."

@ StoneTriple: Careful, next he'll be reading your location and insisting again that there is no Barnett College in Last Crusade. No offense Sankara.

Last edited by Johnny Jones : 10-18-2008 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Just Because
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:28 PM   #47
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Did not know that! Damn, I wish that was in the movie!
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:48 PM   #48
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Last Crusade had the better ending by far.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:50 PM   #49
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Skull did have a satisfying ending - but Crusade beats it by miles!
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:49 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Jones
Last Crusade is like the perfect ending of one life, while Crystal Skull is like a long-awaited resurrection. I think it works better this way considering the nineteen-year gap than if there had been several movies in between the two. We are jumping headfirst into an entirely different world than last we saw. The old one is over. I can't really find good words for it... it made sense in my head though.

I also view it as Crusade wrapping up the Cliffhanger half of the series, while Skull begins the B Movie half. I'd love to see them do two more films to fully balance things out.
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