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Old 11-13-2008, 06:31 PM   #76
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Che
Both the subtitles in the 2003 and 2008 DVDs say Fedora for me but the Last Crusade junior novel has Garth. At least it confirms who Roscoe is directing the line at. Now... which one's Alfred?
Hmm...I'll have to check mine again because I don't have the jr. novel. Alfred? He must be the older, cowboy-type guy.

Hey, Mitchell. Check out the link I posted above where we talked about that very story. Apparently, the guy's name is Jake.
Based on these 2 translated passages, he is either "Fedora" or "Half-Breed" (or Garth Jake Fedora is also half-caste and you can't tell)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icybro
It was Jake, the Half-Breed! The same man, whom Indy would recognize anywhere, from a long time ago and another place, but in a situation not dissimilar to this one. At the time, Indiana surprised Jake and his cronies while they were looting a grave containing the famous Cross of Coronado. And it was perhaps the first time that Indiana received a taste of what his life would later become.

This man had taught Indy his first major defeat. But it had also changed his life, perhaps more than any other before or after it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flannery10
Yes, Jake is definetely identified by the following sentence: "It was him, no doubt. The face had aged over the decades but not as much as Indy had expected. It still expressed toughness and a little sympathy, something Indiana only remembered too well. On his head there used to be an old fedora, the same one that had accompanied Indiana on so many adventures from that day on." I think that clearly identifies Jake/Garth as Fedora.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:58 AM   #77
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Was Fedora originally Abner?

Came across and article that said the role of Fedora in LC was originally written as Abner Ravenwood.

http://pompousfilmsnob.com/2010/10/2...-jones-fedora/

Is that true? I can't take the article at face value, because the writer goes on to say Ox is Abner in CS.

In the original script the character of Fedora was originally Abner Ravenwood who was later played by John Hurt in “The Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls” who was the father of Marion (Karen Allen) and dubbed as Indy’s “mentor”.

Anyone?
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:41 AM   #78
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im not sure but i do not beleive Ox is Abner. in ROLA Marrion cleary tells Indy that Abner is dead. i always figured Indy got the Fedor from the treasure hunter in Last Crusade. i could be wrong though.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #79
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I think at some point in early pre-production it was supposed to be Abner Ravenwood. However, I don't think this idea was ever pursued. It certainly wasn't Abner in the original novelisation of the movie (although I stand to be corrected).
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #80
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I thought Abner was a respectable archaeologist. Whereas Fedora's role was obviously that of a rogue.

Indy himself seems to have adapted both halves of his personality from these two role models.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I thought Abner was a respectable archaeologist. Whereas Fedora's role was obviously that of a rogue.

Indy himself seems to have adapted both halves of his personality from these two role models.

Interesting take, Montana. I agree. Indy melded the two into one, Fedora and Abner Ravenwood, perhaps with a bit of his dad thrown in.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:48 PM   #82
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We have never met Abner and, as much as we might want to, we never will. Reintroducing Abner alive would be very difficult at this point, as it would have been for CS actually. He was a briefly mentioned character, though interesting, and was vital to the plot of Raiders, but I can't imagine how someone might think Fedora or Ox was Abner.

If Abner were to be introduced to us alive, I would like, as someone else previously suggested elsewhere, Wilford Brimley. He is pretty old but he's a great character, so he'd be suitable.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:18 PM   #83
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I have a question. I have all of the Bantam Books in the Indiana Jones run. I have read every one up until Indiana Jones and the Unicorn's Legacy. I need to find the time to read the rest. But, my question is this - did Abner ever appear or even mentioned in the following books at any point?
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:07 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
Came across and article that said the role of Fedora in LC was originally written as Abner Ravenwood.

http://pompousfilmsnob.com/2010/10/2...-jones-fedora/

Is that true? I can't take the article at face value, because the writer goes on to say Ox is Abner in CS.

In the original script the character of Fedora was originally Abner Ravenwood who was later played by John Hurt in “The Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls” who was the father of Marion (Karen Allen) and dubbed as Indy’s “mentor”.

Anyone?

THREAD MERGED. I managed to find this fine thread about Abner = Fedora using the search words, "Abner, crusade." And about the Ox is Abner thing- a popular speculation that went on here before the film's release. So well-known that even the Official Indiana Jones website managed to tease a few people with a page on the site with a cast list- with John Hurt being credited as Abner.

@Drifter= No appearances of Abner in any of the Bantam's. However there is the possibility he appeared in issues #17 & 18 of Marvel's Further Adventures of Indiana Jones comics, the story arc titled, "The Search for Abner." Now if they do a radio drama of that, I'll be listening! Also as Stoo mentions earlier in this thread, there is an unpublished Dark Horse comic called 'The Lost Horizon" and the cover art with the only image we have o Abner being modelled after Wilford Brimley (a great actor!).

I have to admit it's always interesting what people think about Abner. Funnily enough I think he's a dark character- a academic fallen from grace, and I'm willing to bet more roguish as he got older.

Last edited by Violet : 04-26-2011 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet
THREAD MERGED. I managed to find this fine thread about Abner = Fedora using the search words, "Abner, crusade." And about the Ox is Abner thing- a popular speculation that went on here before the film's release. So well-known that even the Official Indiana Jones website managed to tease a few people with a page on the site with a cast list- with John Hurt being credited as Abner.

@Drifter= No appearances of Abner in any of the Bantam's. However there is the possibility he appeared in issues #17 & 18 of Marvel's Further Adventures of Indiana Jones comics, the story arc titled, "The Search for Abner." Now if they do a radio drama of that, I'll be listening! Also as Stoo mentions earlier in this thread, there is an unpublished Dark Horse comic called 'The Lost Horizon" and the cover art with the only image we have o Abner being modelled after Wilford Brimley (a great actor!).

I have to admit it's always interesting what people think about Abner. Funnily enough I think he's a dark character- a academic fallen from grace, and I'm willing to bet more roguish as he got older.

Wow! Thanks for the input, Violet, and for merging the threads. Nicely done.
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:36 PM   #86
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I literally just discovered that Fedora may be Abner, so I was gonna rush to create a thread to see what you guys thought, but I found this one first.

I love the idea that that's actually him and not just a random guy. Even if they didn't keep his name in the script or put it in the movie, it was originally intended to be him. I'd like to think they just decided to keep it mysterious. Just discovering this gives the whole opening scene of Last Crusade so much more weight. It's already great but this makes it even better!
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:36 AM   #87
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I think it should remain a mystery but I can see where the ideas are coming from. Maybe his name's Abner Jake Garth Ravenwood. He tought Indy his first lesson of defeat.

'You lost today, kid. But that doesn't mean you have to like it.'

And out of respect he gives him the hat. Despite Indy losing, he gains great confidence because Fedora acknowledged him and there for respects him back perhaps idolizing him by starting to dress like him.
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