Otto Rahn: the real ?Indiana Jones?

greyfalcon

New member
Otto Wilhelm Rahn (1904 - 1939) is one of the most enigmatic figures of the 20th Century but, paradoxically, one of the least known.

Popular opinion has it that in the early 1930s, on the orders of Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler, Rahn was sent to the South of France to find and bring to his Nazi masters the fabled Treasures of the Temple of Solomon, which included the Grail Chalice and the Ark of the Covenant.

These legendary artifacts would have been employed by Hitler and his cohorts as occult talismans of power to give them an upper hand in their demonic quest for world domination.

Convinced he had cracked a code in the pages of Wolfram von Eschenbach's classic novel "Parsifal" and identified the hiding place, the language scholar Rahn travelled to Languedoc.

Even today no one knows if Rahn ever did find the Grail. Otto Rahn took his secrets to the grave when in March 1939 he committed suicide...or did he?

Otto Rahn?s exploration objectives in the Pyrenees and their alleged outcomes have forged a legend which Steven Spielberg?s researchers readily conceded was their inspiration for the creation of one of Hollywood?s most exciting and notable screen characters: Indiana Jones.


:whip:
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
You should probably cite your sources, it sounds like you're passing off the original message as your own.

By the way, I would be interested to hear if Lucas or Spielberg ever actually specifically cited Rahn in any interview or publication as an inspiration for Indiana Jones.

I doubt it.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Lance Quazar said:
You should probably cite your sources, it sounds like you're passing off the original message as your own.
Who are you talking to, Lance?:confused: Neither Montana nor Rocket are guilty of your absurd accusation.
Lance Quazar said:
By the way, I would be interested to hear if Lucas or Spielberg ever actually specifically cited Rahn in any interview or publication as an inspiration for Indiana Jones.

I doubt it.
Any research into the real Nazi quest for the Holy Grail would have, UNDOUBTEDLY, led to Otto Rahn. To believe that there is/was no connection is foolish.

Lucas & Spielberg don't gratuitously confess or admit ALL their inspirations. The broad/general ones, YES, but not the nitty-gritty. (Have you ever heard/read about them talking about "Secret of the Incas"? NO, but the associations are more than obvious...Same goes for Otto Rahn.)
The Drifter said:
Why was Otto a girlieman?
Most likely because Otto was a homosexual.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Who are you talking to, Lance?:confused: Neither Montana nor Rocket are guilty of your absurd accusation.

Thought it was pretty (if not blindingly) obvious I was referring to the original post.

However, I'm also fairly certain that Rocket didn't coin the phrase "girlie man."

Stoo said:
Any research into the real Nazi quest for the Holy Grail would have, UNDOUBTEDLY, led to Otto Rahn. To believe that there is/was no connection is foolish.

Lucas & Spielberg don't gratuitously confess or admit ALL their inspirations. The broad/general ones, YES, but not the nitty-gritty. (Have you ever heard/read about them talking about "Secret of the Incas"? NO, but the associations are more than obvious...Same goes for Otto Rahn.)

"Last Crusade" was conceived and written long, long, long after the character of "Indiana Jones" was obviously created. At least by eight years!

So there is nothing at all that would necessarily connect Rahn as being a direct or specific inspiration to the character as he first appeared in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", except perhaps only peripherally, in that he was a Nazi who was involved with occult research, which the original film obviously references.

But, heck, it's certainly possible that his name NEVER came up in any research phase or story breaking process.

It seems to me like there are as many "inspirations for Indiana Jones" claims floating around pop culture history as there are Fifth Beatles. And a majority of those feel dubious at best.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Lance Quazar said:
Thought it was pretty (if not blindingly) obvious I was referring to the original post.
Lance, you made no reference to the original post so how could it be "blindingly obvious"?:confused:
Lance Quazar said:
However, I'm also fairly certain that Rocket didn't coin the phrase "girlie man."
I'm certain of that, too.:)
Lance Quazar said:
"Last Crusade" was conceived and written long, long, long after the character of "Indiana Jones" was obviously created. At least by eight years!

So there is nothing at all that would necessarily connect Rahn as being a direct or specific inspiration to the character as he first appeared in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", except perhaps only peripherally, in that he was a Nazi who was involved with occult research, which the original film obviously references.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the "Indiana Jones character" was based on Otto Rahn but certain elements of "Last Crusade" were. Otto's quest could be considered as the basis for the overall idea of Indy 3.
Lance Quazar said:
But, heck, it's certainly possible that his name NEVER came up in any research phase or story breaking process.
Sorry, Lance, but to believe such a thing is foolish. If any research is to be done regarding the quest for the Holy Grail during the Nazi regime, Otto Rahn is a prominent figure. Studying the subject without coming across his name is a practical impossibilty.
Lance Quazar said:
It seems to me like there are as many "inspirations for Indiana Jones" claims floating around pop culture history as there are Fifth Beatles. And a majority of those feel dubious at best.
Which pop-culture "inspirations for Indiana Jones" are you referring to?:confused:
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Lance, you made no reference to the original post so how could it be "blindingly obvious"?:confused:

Oh, come now, Stoo. You're a very bright and perceptive chap. Surely by process of elimination, you could figure out that I couldn't possibly be referring to either the second or third posts in the thread when I said, "You should cite your sources instead of passing off pasted text as your own."

Could I possibly be have referring to Rocket or Montana? I think not. [/quote]


Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the "Indiana Jones character" was based on Otto Rahn but certain elements of "Last Crusade" were. Otto's quest could be considered as the basis for the overall idea of Indy 3.

I'll allow for that possibility, certainly. And if Rahn didn't directly inspire "Crusade", certainly his activities were part of the tapestry of events that inspired the original story for "Raiders."

Perhaps I was being overly literal by saying I strongly doubt the CHARACTER of Jones was inspired by the PERSON of Rahn.

But certainly Rahn's activities and pursuits were part of the real-life events which "Raiders" - and subsequently "Crusade" - draw from.

However, I DO think it's at least theoretically possible that one could have come up with the idea of doing an Indy Grail story without being familiar with Otto Rahn. The Grail is an extremely famous artifact with a huge presence in various mythologies that very obviously lends itself to an Indy-style story.

And it's not like the film bears any real resemblance to what Rahn, the SS, Himmler and whomever were actually doing. "Crusade" hardly strives for historical accuracy. You could have written that movie without doing ANY research into the Nazis true occult activities.

Heck, Lucas could have just gotten drunk and gotten the idea from Python.


Which pop-culture "inspirations for Indiana Jones" are you referring to?:confused:

For a recent example, Spielberg said (at Comic Con, IRRC) that when "Raiders" came out, many reviewers compared it to Tin Tin. However, Spielberg wasn't familiar with Tin Tin at all prior to making "Raiders" and only sought it out AFTER reading about the similarities.

However, those initial reviewers and many other the years have cited "Tin Tin" as an inspiration.

And that, I assure you, is one of many similar such instances I've read over the years. "Oh, Indy is based on this book/film/real guy/etc. etc."

Heck, I believe animator Chuck Jones once claimed that Indiana Jones' name was inspired by Spielberg's fondness for "Michigan J. Frog" in "One Froggy Evening", which, I think we can all agree, is poppycock.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
I would also think it unlikely that the name 'Otto Rahn' never emerged during research for The Last Crusade.

He was, after all, one of the few real connections between the Nazi Party and the quest to uncover the reality of an ancient myth. There are many more fictional accounts, such as Ravenscroft's novel Spear of Destiny (whom the publisher passed of as 'history').


My desire was nothing more than to guide the men of my time to a hitherto unknown world that I had uncovered with a rope, my miner's lamp, and a lot of effort, and at the same time tell my contemporaries the story of the martyrdom of the Templar heretics.

I would like to conclude my prologue with the words of Franz Kampers, words that together with my lamp helped me at times to illuminate the dark labyrinths of the caves of the Grail. "The word 'Gral' was obscure from the beginning. The lack of clarity of the name itself and its origin indicates precisely how sacred was a moment in history when a Majesty existed, known and understood, that was called Gral."

OTTO RAHN, 1933
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Adressing the title of this thread (the only reason I chose to post in it was that it contained the name 'Otto Rahn'), it's a minor irritation to hear the media proclaiming to have discovered "the real Indiana Jones", since the character was a combination of many influences, both real and fictional.

Otto Rahn could be equated more with Henry Sr., or Elsa, or the SS Vogel. Though, in essence Otto Rahn merely represents the period, the direct connections between the NSDAP and religion, and their quest for discovery and interpretation of myths. Rahn was prevalent in a time and a place where a regime was surrounding itself in myth.

Christopher Jones, the translator of Crusade Against the Grail wrote the following as part of his Foreword:

Rahn confidently proclaimed that the fortress castle of Montsegur in the French Pyrenees was the Temple of the Grail, and that mystical Cathar Christianity, based on the veneration of the Holy Spirit as symbolized by the Mani, was the Church of the Holy Grail. The gates of Lucifer's kingdom had been thrown open; the result was Crusade Against the Grail. Soon the book came to the attention of the leaders of the Third Reich. According to Ladame, Rahn explained that he had received a mysterious telegram while he was in Paris. As usual, he was depressed because he was having difficulty finding backers for a French translation of Crusade. The person who wrote the telegram did not give his name, but offered Rahn 1,000 Reichsmarks per month to write a sequel to the book. A little later, money was wired to Paris so that he could settle his affairs in France and return to Germany to a specific address in Berlin: 7, Prinz Albrechtstrasse. When Rahn finally turned up, he was shocked to learn that the telegram's sender was none other than Heinrich Himmler! The head of the SS welcomed him personally and invited the young author to join the SS as a civilian historian and archeologist. Rahn later told Ladame, "What was I supposed to do? Turn him down?"

In an effort aimed at reinforcing National Socialist ideology, the SS was organizing expeditions all over the globe to trace the origins of the Indo-Europeans. Dr. Ernst Schafer led a famous German-Himalayan expedition to prove that Tibet was the cradle of the Arya, and to investigate the legend of the"Abominable Snowman." Another expedition [Ritscher, 1938-39 - Smiffy] visited the South Pole and studded the polar cap with small swastika flags. An elderly colonel in the former Austro-Hungarian army, Karl Maria Wiligut, better known as "Weisthor," became Himmler's esoteric "lord" of runology. At Wiligut's insistence, Rahn participated in a German expedition to Iceland to research the origin of the Eddas and the birthplace of Stalde Snorri Sturluson—despite the fact that he was becoming disaffected with the Nazi elite.

Thanks to his position as Himmler's archaeologist specializing in the legend of the Grail, Rahn had become a sort of Nazi shooting star, giving lectures and radio talks about his explorations. But gradually, almost imperceptibly, he began to move in circles that were openly opposed to the regime. This came to the attention of Adolf Hitler at least once, when Rahn invited regime opponents like the post-Romantic composer Hans Pfiztner to the 1938 inauguration of the Haus der deutsche Kunst in Munich. Rahn's friendship with Adolf Frise must have also come to Himmler's attention; Frise, whose real name was Adolf Altengartner, was the publisher of Robert Musil's famous novel A Man Without Qualities. The author was living in exile in Switzerland, bitterly opposed to the Nazis and Hitler's Anschluss that had incorporated their Austrian homeland into the Nazi Reich.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
I would also think it unlikely that the name 'Otto Rahn' never emerged during research for The Last Crusade.

My point is simply - who said they DID any research? And I'm only being half-facetious. "LC" has ZERO "real" historical details in it at all. It is 100% fiction and fantasy. Sure, just because there is one SS officer involved in the search for the Grail in the movie doesn't mean that the writers of the film pored over research about Rahn, Himmler and the "real" Nazi grail quest.

Other than the most basic premise, the movie bears no resemblance to Rahn's reality at all.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Lance Quazar said:
My point is simply - who said they DID any research? And I'm only being half-facetious. "LC" has ZERO "real" historical details in it at all. It is 100% fiction and fantasy. Sure, just because there is one SS officer involved in the search for the Grail in the movie doesn't mean that the writers of the film pored over research about Rahn, Himmler and the "real" Nazi grail quest.

Other than the most basic premise, the movie bears no resemblance to Rahn's reality at all.

I agree with you, but it bears noting that earlier versions of the script had the grail in a castle.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Christopher Jones continued...

Rahn's second book, Luzifers Hofgesind, eine Reise zu den guten Geistern Europas [Lucifer's Court, a Journey to Europe's Good Spirits], appeared in Leipzigin 1937; it remains controversial to this day. The intinerary of his European journey included Bingen, Paris, Toulouse, Marseille, Milan, Rome, Verona, Brixen, Geneva, Worms, Michelstadt, Burg Wildenberg near Amorbach, Giessen Marburg Goslar, Cologne, Berlin, Warnemunde, Edinburgh, Reykyavik, and Reykholt. In the book, Rahn does not identify Lucifer with the Devil; for him, Lucifer was the Pyrenean Abellio or the Greek God Apollo—all bearers of light.

Nevertheless, the book contains at least one passage that is openly anti-Semitic, which led Paul Ladame to conclude that the Nazis had tampered with the final draft of the manuscript. Many years later he was quoted as saying, "Otto Rahn would never have written that." Apparently, Rahn dictated much of the book to his secretary, who was keeping an eye on his activities for Himmler.

More and more, Rahn yearned for a golden renaissance of traditional values based on the unity of France and Germany under neo-Cathar beliefs, and opposed the pernicious policies that were leading Europe to war. He was convinced that the intolerance inherent in the Old Testament was essentially responsible for the constant cycles of ethnic and genocidal violence throughout history. In fact, there is a strange symmetry between Hitler's war, which resulted in the Holocaust, and the Papal crusade against the Cathars, which obliterated Occitan civilization. After apparently quarreling with Himmler (which led to a tour of duty as a camp guard as punishment), amid accusations of homosexuality and possible Jewish heritage, he resigned from his post early in 1939. He wrote, "There is much sorrow in my country. Impossible for a tolerant, liberal man like me to live in the nation that my native country has become."

Trapped and overpowered by a malicious culture, Otto Wilhelm Rahn died in the snow of the Wilderkaiser on March 13, 1939, almost the anniversary of the fall of Montsegur. An apparent suicide, he ended his life in the style of the ritual Cathar endura. When he learned of Rahn's death, Antonin Gadal wrote, "Otto Rahn's suffering was over." Rahn was buried in 1940 in Darmstadt. As Karl Rittersbacher concluded, "the transit of this soul, in eternal search for a new and desired spirituality that he could not find on Earth, reminds me as if a benevolent angel of death had brought him the consolamentum."

As he explains in his prologue to Crusade, Otto Rahn did not wish to point an accusing finger. For multiple reasons he wanted to chart a new path toward the future—and come to terms with human destiny. By addressing such problems asour own mortality, so essential to the human condition, Crusade contains a powerful message for our greedy and narcissistic society. "For some time now, I have resided in the mountains of the Tabor. Often, deeply moved, I have wandered through the crystal halls and marble crypts of the caves of the heretics, moving aside the bones of 'Pure Ones' and knights fallen in 'the fight for the spirit,' my steps echoing on the wet floor in the emptiness. Then I stop—listening— half expecting a troubadour to sing a sonnet in honor of the supreme Minne, that sublime love that converted men into gods."

Perhaps it shouldn't come as a surprise, but Rahn's medieval world resembled that of his time, and our own, in its moral hypocrisy. With a remarkable sense of drama, he shows how the Cathars' genuine values were totally irrelevant to the despotic Pope and his power-hungry henchmen. He constantly contrasts the depravity of the Holy See and Saint Dominic's instrument for repression—the Inquisition—with the symbolic purity of the Grail. And yet, throughout the book, the mystery of the Cathar Mani or "Gral" lacks a single, sharply defined description. What was it?

In Parzival, Wolfram describes how a Kabbalistic astronomer named Flegetanis described the Gral as a "stone from the stars" to another Minnesingernamed Kyot who in turn related the story to Wolfram. Frequently, I have deliberately left the spelling of "Grail" in its middle German equivalent to emphasize that we are dealing with the legend of a "grail," and not the Holy Grail, the chalice that Joseph of Arimathea used to catch the blood of Jesus when he died on the cross. Like many others, Rahn was convinced that the founders of the church simply Christianized a pagan symbol. In Crusade, Rahn develops the Grail into an icon for the survival of the human soul. In this way, he is able to convey its dazzling yet indefinable power over the Cathars. Robert Graves wrote,"Symbolism or allegory is 'truer' than realism in that the former allows more possibilities or interpretations. And more possibilities—implying greater freedomand less context dependence—translate to a greater truth. Accordingly, it has been said, 'The more numerous the poetic meanings that could be concentrated in a sacred name; the greater was its power.'" In this way, the Gral is perhaps the most powerful symbol of all for a simple reason: nobody has ever seen it.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
My point is simply - who said they DID any research? And I'm only being half-facetious. "LC" has ZERO "real" historical details in it at all. It is 100% fiction and fantasy. Sure, just because there is one SS officer involved in the search for the Grail in the movie doesn't mean that the writers of the film pored over research about Rahn, Himmler and the "real" Nazi grail quest.

Other than the most basic premise, the movie bears no resemblance to Rahn's reality at all.

All writing has some form of research, even if it's merely memories dredged up from the recesses of a writer's mind.

Consider that the international best-selling book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail was published in 1982. It argued that the Cathars were the protectors of the bloodline of Christ (san graal / sang réal / "royal blood"). It was in this book that I first discovered the name Otto Rahn, at the back under Notes and References.
 
Stoo said:
Most likely because Otto was a homosexual.
Yes, that is what I was referring to in my crude prose.

"The Complete Making of" is proof enough that research was done.

Nazis + Grail = Otto Rahn.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Lance Quazar said:
Oh, come now, Stoo. You're a very bright and perceptive chap. Surely by process of elimination, you could figure out that I couldn't possibly be referring to either the second or third posts in the thread when I said, "You should cite your sources instead of passing off pasted text as your own."
Well, those were not your exact words but we can let that slide. Thanks for the compliment, Lance, but I may not be as bright & perceptive as you may think.:eek: My confusion stemmed from the fact that the first post was 5 years ago and Greyfalcon hasn't been at The Raven since 2006.
Lance Quazar said:
However, I DO think it's at least theoretically possible that one could have come up with the idea of doing an Indy Grail story without being familiar with Otto Rahn. The Grail is an extremely famous artifact with a huge presence in various mythologies that very obviously lends itself to an Indy-style story.

And it's not like the film bears any real resemblance to what Rahn, the SS, Himmler and whomever were actually doing. "Crusade" hardly strives for historical accuracy. You could have written that movie without doing ANY research into the Nazis true occult activities.
Of course it's possible but it's doubtful that it's the case here. From his interviews about Young Indy, it's clear that Lucas is knowledgable about little-known facts in 20th century history and the transcript of the initial brain-storming conference for "Raiders" between himself, Spielberg & Kasdan reveals that Lucas was very familiar with the WW2 German experiments of Flying Wings - obscure information in the late '70s, I would imagine.

It would come as no surprise if George came across Otto's name as far back as 1977/78 (or even earlier) while developing the story for "Raiders".

This portion of dialogue from "Raiders" is VERY telling:
Eaton: Over the last two years, the Nazis have had teams of archaeologists running around the whole world looking for all kinds of religious artifacts. Hitler's a nut on the subject. He's crazy! He's obsessed with the occult.
Lance Quazar said:
For a recent example, Spielberg said (at Comic Con, IRRC) that when "Raiders" came out, many reviewers compared it to Tin Tin. However, Spielberg wasn't familiar with Tin Tin at all prior to making "Raiders" and only sought it out AFTER reading about the similarities.

However, those initial reviewers and many other the years have cited "Tin Tin" as an inspiration..

And that, I assure you, is one of many similar such instances I've read over the years. "Oh, Indy is based on this book/film/real guy/etc. etc."
Interesting about the Tintin bit. Thanks for that reply, Lance.:hat: The reason I asked is because influences on the Indy movies are a pet subject of mine and I'm constantly on a quest to find & and verify them.
Lance Quazar said:
Heck, I believe animator Chuck Jones once claimed that Indiana Jones' name was inspired by Spielberg's fondness for "Michigan J. Frog" in "One Froggy Evening", which, I think we can all agree, is poppycock.
Say what?:confused: Love Chuck Jones but that is crazy if it's true, Lance!:eek: "Hello, my baby! Hello, my honey! Hello, my ragtime gal! Send me a kiss by wire. Baby, my heart's on fire!"
Lance Quazar said:
My point is simply - who said they DID any research? And I'm only being half-facetious. "LC" has ZERO "real" historical details in it at all. It is 100% fiction and fantasy. Sure, just because there is one SS officer involved in the search for the Grail in the movie doesn't mean that the writers of the film pored over research about Rahn, Himmler and the "real" Nazi grail quest.
Deborah Fine's job on the first 3 films (and the TV series) was a RESEARCHER. Like Rocket said, check out the memo on page 185 of "The Complete Making of..." book regarding her research on "Crusade". She was doing plenty of it!:gun:
Montana Smith said:
All writing has some form of research, even if it's merely memories dredged up from the recesses of a writer's mind.
Smiffy, you've succinctly put into words what I'm trying to imply. Anyway, I agree with what you wrote about "Otto Rahn could be equated more with Henry Sr., or Elsa, or the SS Vogel." Putting the name, Indiana Jones, in a headline is going to grab more attention than, "Otto Rahn: the real Elsa Schneider"!
Rocket Surgeon said:
Yes, that is what I was referring to in my crude prose.
Rocket, you could have used the forbidden term (à la Barbra Streisand) but you didn't.:p Das ist verboten. Ja?:eek:

Anyway, similar to what you wrote, Indy cannot be Otto Rahn because Dr. Jones is a womanizer...and Otto was not.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
This portion of dialogue from "Raiders" is VERY telling:
Eaton: Over the last two years, the Nazis have had teams of archaeologists running around the whole world looking for all kinds of religious artifacts. Hitler's a nut on the subject. He's crazy! He's obsessed with the occult.

Maybe they'd seen something like this pulpy-looking book from 1974. I picked it up because it did look pulpy, but it does deal with known facts - not the really wild made-up stuff about UFOs, aliens and the Antarctic etc.

IMG-8.jpg


IMG_0001-5.jpg


Stoo said:
Anyway, similar to what you wrote, Indy cannot be Otto Rahn because Dr. Jones is a womanizer...and Otto was not.

But he appears to have come to share Indy's dislike of Nazis!
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Well, those were not your exact words but we can let that slide. Thanks for the compliment, Lance, but I may not be as bright & perceptive as you may think.:eek: My confusion stemmed from the fact that the first post was 5 years ago and Greyfalcon hasn't been at The Raven since 2006.

Ooops. I didn't realize that. Well, I can certainly understand how we got our wires crossed, then. I thought it was a new post and Montana was just jumping in. Apologies.

:hat:


The reason I asked is because influences on the Indy movies are a pet subject of mine and I'm constantly on a quest to find & and verify them.

A very interesting subject, certainly. But, as "success has a thousand fathers", over the years I have heard of dubious sources lay claim to having "inspired" Indiana Jones in some way or another. Happens quite a lot (or at least it used to.)

Deborah Fine's job on the first 3 films (and the TV series) was a RESEARCHER. Like Rocket said, check out the memo on page 185 of "The Complete Making of..." book regarding her research on "Crusade". She was doing plenty of it!:

Somewhat ironically, I have not "researched" the subject at all myself. I simply meant to point out that, other than the very basic premise of "Nazis looking for Grail" - a premise which would have required very nominal research to discover or which one could have simply invented without even knowing there was an historical basis - the final "Crusade" movie contains NO actual historical parallels or connections to what REALLY happened.

So Deborah may have spent hours and hours in the library, but none of her efforts actually made it to the screen.

But, yeah, I'd definitely wager that Lucas himself certainly heard of Rahn at some point, with or without Ms. Fine's assistance.




Putting the name, Indiana Jones, in a headline is going to grab more attention than, "Otto Rahn: the real Elsa Schneider"

Heh. Why let facts get in the way of a good headline. But it would have been hilarious if they wrote that instead.

Anyway, similar to what you wrote, Indy cannot be Otto Rahn because Dr. Jones is a womanizer...and Otto was not.

Perhaps more importantly, Rahn was a Nazi (albeit a half-hearted one at best, from all accounts). And Jones, you know, killed them.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
Ooops. I didn't realize that. Well, I can certainly understand how we got our wires crossed, then. I thought it was a new post and Montana was just jumping in. Apologies.

:hat:

I just ran a search for threads entitled 'Otto Rahn', and this happened to be the only one.

Though the first post was full of clichés I thought it best to link the complete text of Rahn's book here, rather than dedicate a new thread.

Lance Quazar said:
A very interesting subject, certainly. But, as "success has a thousand fathers", over the years I have heard of dubious sources lay claim to having "inspired" Indiana Jones in some way or another. Happens quite a lot (or at least it used to.)

The trouble is that each 'new' father is often presented as the 'definitive' father, when as you rightly say, Indy is the result of numerous real and fictional personalities.

Lance Quazar said:
Somewhat ironically, I have not "researched" the subject at all myself. I simply meant to point out that, other than the very basic premise of "Nazis looking for Grail" - a premise which would have required very nominal research to discover or which one could have simply invented without even knowing there was an historical basis - the final "Crusade" movie contains NO actual historical parallels or connections to what REALLY happened.

So Deborah may have spent hours and hours in the library, but none of her efforts actually made it to the screen.

A lot of the research obviously gets filtered away, or lost in translation, so what we're left with is the nugget of an idea. And that's the fun part, piecing together possible sources from the little that was left.

:hat:
 
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