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Old 05-28-2003, 10:06 AM   #26
Broomhandle Davis
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Re: Re: Treacherous Gallic Villains

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Originally posted by vaxer
...you've been seriously damaged by "recent events"... [/b]

"More proof," please.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:13 AM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Treacherous Gallic Villains

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Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis
"More proof," please. [/b]

Broom, you shoud know it by now, we simply can't find proof, maybe because there's nothing to pouve.

But if it's proof your looking for then look at your three last posts. If you hadn't lost sanity, you would be shocked.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:23 AM   #28
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Wasnt Belloq a sutibly gallic villian?

What else do you want Indy to be confronted with armies or garic swilling mimes playing the accordian?
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:38 AM   #29
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Shocked? No, awed.

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Originally posted by bob
Wasnt Belloq a suitibly gallic villian?

What else do you want Indy to be confronted with armies or garic swilling mimes playing the accordian?

Well as to an army of Belloqs, "confronting" that army would be difficult since it'd be in constant retreat, making high-minded statements and cutting secret deals, and ultimately selling weapons and intellgence to the other side.

As for Belloq mimes their only gesture would be both hands up and waiting impatiently for someone to come to their rescue in the Eleventh Hour.

No, they might not make good villains at all. Too pathetic. Better to relegate them to the sidelines and to allow them to reminisce about their imagined glories.
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:48 AM   #30
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It's a shame that the Raven is starting to sound like an annoying Yahoo News message board. Next we'll be finding such deeply thought-provoking comments as "liberals suck!" and "No, you war mongers suck!" on here. Let's keep the political commentary out of here.
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Old 05-28-2003, 11:08 AM   #31
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Villains, we are talking about villains

Villains, boys and girls, we are talking about villains. Any story of intrigue requires knowledge of the underlying forces at play. As for politics, what exactly are Communism or National Socialism, but political philosophies? I'm not altogether sure you can divorce politics from villainy and intrigue.

Even Temple of Doom which has no Nazis at all cannot be fully appreciated unless you appreciate the political situation in China in the '30's.

And Lucas/Spielberg were truly prescient in making Belloq a villain.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 05-28-2003 at 12:27 pm]
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Old 05-28-2003, 11:21 AM   #32
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Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

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Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis

Even Temple of Doom which has no Nazis at all cannot be fully appreciated unless you appreciate the politic situation in China in the '30's.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 05-28-2003 at 12:11 pm]

Hmmm, I don't know. I first saw Temple of Doom when it opened, and I was about ten years old. I didn't know a heck of a lot about Chinese politics of the 1930s (okay, I didn't know a blessed thing about it), but I appreciated the movie a lot more then than I do now. It was a kid's movie, after all.

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Old 05-28-2003, 11:33 AM   #33
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Re: Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

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Originally posted by Randy_Flagg
It was a kid's movie, after all.
[/b]

The secret of the series is it isn't aimed at kids at all. The '30's serials were aimed at kids. Indiana Jones is not aimed exclusively at kids any more than Star Wars was aimed exclusively at kids.

That is why Indy is fallible and the villains aren't super-villains.
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Old 05-28-2003, 12:27 PM   #34
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Re: Re: Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

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Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis
Quote:
Originally posted by Randy_Flagg
It was a kid's movie, after all.


The secret of the series is it isn't aimed at kids at all. The '30's serials were aimed at kids. Indiana Jones is not aimed exclusively at kids any more than Star Wars was aimed exclusively at kids.

That is why Indy is fallible and the villains aren't super-villains. [/b]

That's very true for Raiders and Last Crusade, but I think less so for Temple of Doom. By including Short Round and Willie, and comic-book-caliber villains (Mola Ram), Temple of Doom seems more kid oriented. That's not a bad thing-- after all, when I was ten, I thought it was far superior to Raiders of The Lost Ark. However, as I got older, I've grown to appreciate Raiders and Last Crusade more, while Temple of Doom seems very kiddie at times.

Of course I still enjoy TOD, just not quite as much as I used to.
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Old 05-28-2003, 07:37 PM   #35
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I'm new, so feel free to take all my comments with a grain of sand (but don't take it with too many grains, or you'll never have enough sand to steal the golden idol). I dont really see TOD as a kids flick...true, there are elements there that appeal, but I like to think those inclusions cater more to the "inner child" of most adults. I mean as a Kid, I was in love with the idea of exploration; I still dream of digging in the sands of Egypt, searching for a tomb no ones entered in 4000 years. To me, Indiana Jones takes a dream of my youth, mixes in some villans and a touch of the supernatural to concoct a story that we all wish we had a part in... As for Communists or Nazis or whomever the villan(s) turn out to be, I see them as a function of the storyline; if its good, the villans will work. The Nazis had a huge role in TLC, but to me, the story made the film, the Nazis just made it better. that said, I really hope there are no Communists -
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Old 05-29-2003, 05:36 AM   #36
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Welcome aboard Huddog!

You're right, the story is what makes it work. Although many see Last Crusade as a rehash of Raiders, with its Nazi villains, it DID shake things up by adding the father/son relationship.

As for TOD-- like I said, I still enjoy it, but of all the Indy movies, it seems the most kid-oriented to me; kind of in the same way that The Phantom Menace is the most kid-oriented Star Wars film (though TOD is still far better than TPM.) I guess anytime a child has a prominent role in a film, it feels targeted more towards children.

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Old 05-29-2003, 10:40 AM   #37
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I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army
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Old 05-29-2003, 11:14 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob
I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army

Great points, Bob.

Indy taking on the Soviet army would remind me a bit too much of Rambo III. Can you picture the final scene: Indy and Henry are surrounded by Russian tanks. Henry turns to Indy, "What do we do?" Indy replies, "Let's ____ 'em." Nah, doesn't work.

Also, like you said, shooting dozens of Soviet soldiers requires more justification. Shooting Nazis is just fun. Everyone enjoys a dead Nazi.
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Old 05-30-2003, 03:00 PM   #39
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Indy Infernal Machine

The reds worked in the game Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Granted the story in the Infernal Machine wasn't that good. Maybe the next one will have a cult in it like in the Temple of Doom .
Anyway Darabont and Lucas will do the right thing and I will love it.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob
I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army

How about an RPG, Bob?

Plus being set in the cold war, Indy has plenty of justification in killing Soviets. Remember the saying, "Better dead than Red"?
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:59 PM   #41
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Hiot crackers, is this an old thread! I didn't realize how far back the Indy IV speculation went.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:01 PM   #42
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hahaha. some of this stuff is quite funny. hindsight is 20/20, right?
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroc
How about an RPG, Bob?

Plus being set in the cold war, Indy has plenty of justification in killing Soviets. Remember the saying, "Better dead than Red"?

You do know you're responding to something someone wrote 5 years ago, right?
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:35 PM   #44
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exactly...nothing like traveling down memory lane to see everybody's perspective five years ago, and how it compares to the reality of today.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:47 PM   #45
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According to David Koepp in the latest issue of Creative Screenwriting, when Lucas was doing research for the film, he discovered that Stalin was indeed interested in the crystal skulls.
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:55 AM   #46
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i think it's great the commies are involved. can't always have the nazi's all the time. it is set in 1957 to reflect indys age and is perfect for the commies to take a and a from indy...
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:03 PM   #47
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I don't think setting in the 50's would make it feel not Indiana Jones. Spielberg and Lucas were reluctant to use the Nazis again for Crusade because they didn't want to rehash the same villains, and Temple of Doom already felt different in a lot of ways to Raiders, but is still a good movie. The Soviets are probably the only entity big and powerful enough to be as threatening in the 50's as the Nazis were in the 30's.
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:29 PM   #48
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If anyone thinks Indy in the 50s is strange, this clip might put things into perspective. Try Indy in the 90s:



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Old 05-14-2008, 04:57 PM   #49
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The apparatus did waste money and resources on investigating "telepathy", "remote viewing", "psychics" and other such idiocies, long before the West stumbled upon its own frauds like Uri Geller - but not in Stalin's times. If I recall correctly, it started when Nikita settled in.

(However, unlike in the West - with e.g. Geller - the definite upside of it all was that if a scamming thief was found out, he would not go on to have a prominent career with TV appearances and "psychic" shows thanks to cretins who would happily feed him, but instead he would... face serious consequences. Of course, back then most of the Eastern psychics seemed to genuinely believe that they had "powers", rather than consciously engaged in open scamming and thievery, the way Geller and most of the Western ones would do.)

Anyway, I suppose chasing aliens can be easily filed in the same drawer as wasting money on all the paranormal nonsense - and licentia poetica can safely allow one to move the events a few years earlier...
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:17 PM   #50
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Should've just dyed Harrison's hair, smiled, and go back to the early 40's at least he could've still had some nazi's and it would have made a little since with his age...But the 50's, come on! I don't like the way Harrison looks old and they did nothing to cover it. And I know that's what Steven wanted..bt come one..A little salt-n'-pepper woulda worked for me.
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