Why are people so hard on Indy IV?

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Randy_Flagg said:
Even though I tend to criticize KOTCS, I have to agree that the opening act was quite fun, and I wish the rest of the film maintained that level of excitement.
My only real criticism with it is that that Doomtown scene felt tacked on simply because Lucas/Spielberg wanted it in the movie, and couldn't think how else to incorporate it. It really felt as if the opening act should have ended with Indy sneaking off into the night after getting off the rocket sled. Doomtown didn't really move the story along at all. It's kind of like if, in Raiders, after Indy gets into the biplane at the end of the opening act, the biplane crash lands on an island, and Indy has another little adventure with some natives, before returning to the university. In other words: Totally unnecessary filler.

I hear that on a plot level, but I think it's thematically important; I don't think the sense we're supposed to get of Indy being out of his time would come through as strongly without him looking so bewildered in that picture perfect 1950s neighborhood, or without him dwarfed by that mushroom cloud.

(Great to see you around, Randy!)
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
I hear that on a plot level, but I think it's thematically important; I don't think the sense we're supposed to get of Indy being out of his time would come through as strongly without him looking so bewildered in that picture perfect 1950s neighborhood, or without him dwarfed by that mushroom cloud.

Very true. And, I DO like the scene, so my complaint is only half-hearted. I just wish they had found a way to incorportate the scene into the film in a way that made it feel bit more integral to the story.

Also, the idea of Indy being out of place is one of those ideas that gets touched upon only briefly in the film, but is never properly developed, so I don't know if it needed to be there at all. As soon as Indy starts chasing after the skull, he's right back in his element, and for the remainder of the film, the "fish out of water" aspect is dropped entirely, as is the entire 1950s setting (a 1950s Peruvian Jungle could just as easily be a 1930s Peruvian Jungle.)
I guess that's one of my disappointments with this film-- Potentially compelling thematic elements are introduced, but nothing much is done with them. Another example is the father/son story. It had the potential to be interesting, but instead, it just gets played for a few laughs. There's no pay-off for it. Now, obviously, I don't expect an Indy movie to be deeply profound, but heck, even the Indy/Short-Round relationship had more substance and emotional investment than the Indy/Mutt relationship.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here. Sorry about that!
(Great to see you around, Randy!)
Thanks!
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Randy_Flagg said:
Very true. And, I DO like the scene, so my complaint is only half-hearted. I just wish they had found a way to incorportate the scene into the film in a way that made it feel bit more integral to the story.

Also, the idea of Indy being out of place is one of those ideas that gets touched upon only briefly in the film, but is never properly developed, so I don't know if it needed to be there at all. As soon as Indy starts chasing after the skull, he's right back in his element, and for the remainder of the film, the "fish out of water" aspect is dropped entirely, as is the entire 1950s setting (a 1950s Peruvian Jungle could just as easily be a 1930s Peruvian Jungle.)
I guess that's one of my disappointments with this film-- Potentially compelling thematic elements are introduced, but nothing much is done with them. Another example is the father/son story. It had the potential to be interesting, but instead, it just gets played for a few laughs. There's no pay-off for it. Now, obviously, I don't expect an Indy movie to be deeply profound, but heck, even the Indy/Short-Round relationship had more substance and emotional investment than the Indy/Mutt relationship.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here. Sorry about that!

No need to be sorry. Going off on tangents is what this place is all about!

Welcome back Randy! By the way I'm in the same camp as you and Attila.
Every point you guys have made, I feel, is spot on. You know your stuff sir.
You sound like you may have taken a few film courses during your travels, yes?
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Dr. Gonzo said:
No need to be sorry. Going off on tangents is what this place is all about!

Welcome back Randy! By the way I'm in the same camp as you and Attila.
Every point you guys have made, I feel, is spot on. You know your stuff sir.
You sound like you may have taken a few film courses during your travels, yes?

Haha... thanks for the "welcome back," but nope, I never took any film classes. I probably just spend too much time over-analyzing something that should just be enjoyed as pure popcorn-munching entertainment. ;)
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Túrin Turambar said:
Well were getting old Indy in the late 60's now so deal with that one.
7NzN7HC.gif
 

roundshort

Active member
mrman7 said:
The REAL problem with Crystal Skull is
...


. . .That it is stupid. I mean it is just bad. Horrible writing, acting, EFX, ..... the list just goes on and on.

To even compare this to Temple is like saying Justin Bieber has the range of Freddie Mercury. But you don't like his style of music....
 
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Joe Brody

Well-known member
Finn said:

Makes me miss VP.

Is this the first time that image has been used? It's hilarious. . . . and apt.

roundshort said:
...


. . .That it is stupid. I mean it is just bad. Horrible writing, acting, EFX, ..... the list just goes on and on.

To even compare this to Temple is like saying Justin Bieber has the range of Freddie Mercury. But you don't like his style of music....

Miss your keen intellect, brother man.
 

mrman7

New member
Stoo said:
2) The bulk of the jungle chase wasn't done in a studio. Granted some shots were digitally enhanced with extra foliage but those are real guys jumping onto/falling off/dragging behind real jeeps in a real jungle. Spalko's fights with Mutt & Marion have some tell-tale green (not blue anymore) screen shots but they're only a small percentage of the entire thing. The overwhelming majority was filmed outdoors on real, moving vehicles.

I just watched the sequence again. There's no way that's true. There's a couple shots with some real stunts but, the vast majority is chromakey work.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
mrman7 said:
I just watched the sequence again. There's no way that's true. There's a couple shots with some real stunts but, the vast majority is chromakey work.
'Tis absolutely true, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it to you!;)

(What I was wrong about, however, was the use of green screens instead of blue??...because, "Crystal Skull", did indeed use quite a lot of BLUE!)

Mr.Man7, have you checked out the book, "The Complete Making of Indiana Jones", or the bonus features on the "Skull" DVD & Blu-ray? You can see the crew rehearsing & filming several of the chase sequences OUTDOORS and you can read about how difficult it was to choreograph the fights because of multiple vehicles?AND shooting everything on a bumpy road! Even Shia talks about how hard it was to stand astride two cars moving through the jungle. I also have a great "POST" magazine interview with effects supervisor, Pablo Helman, which confirms all of this.

Loads of shots were digitally beefed up to make the jungle look more crowded so maybe the addition of those extra trees & bushes in the foreground is what you mean?:confused: Hope you aren't confusing CG enhancements with chromatic key shots.

If necessary, I could count the actual time (in seconds) of what was filmed in a real jungle and what wasn't. The totals will definitely show that only a tiny percentage used a chroma backdrop for the main plates. (My offhand, educated guess puts it at about 5% or less).

Anyway, the point is that the actors & stunt people in the jungle chase scene were NOT "all in a studio"!:gun:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Turwhateverbar said:
The hole jungle chase looks like it was done in a blue screen studio.
Witch jungle chase was done in a hole ??? ha ha yeah it looks fake mate but acters with cars wernt filmed in studio that was all done in reel jungle hawaii just look at the backgrownds only tossers are blind to it so cleer to anyone with a good eye queue
 
Stoo said:
Witch jungle chase was done in a hole ??? ha ha yeah it looks fake mate but acters with cars wernt filmed in studio that was all done in reel jungle hawaii just look at the backgrownds only tossers are blind to it so cleer to anyone with a good eye queue

It's IQ if your so dam intelligent why can't you at least spell it correct.? Also by being a ***** and calling me a tosser? Your not doing your stereotypical Canadian
Assbole rep any good are you...?

I suppose the monkey chase was all done with real monkeys swinging through the Amazonian jungle to hey?? And mutt was so good he just joined in for fun too.? Do I kake my self "cleaR"??

Good day Sir.(y)
 
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