General Indy 5 Thread - rumors and possibilities

Honestly...will there be another Indy film in the next decade?


  • Total voters
    148

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Great way of putting it. Some people look at the painting and the composition is amazing, but thos eyes that follow you no matter where you are in the room are crossed.

It might be hard seeing Indy next time, when he's lost in a purple haze.

3305Mona-Lisa-Joint-Posters.jpg
 

Darth Vile

New member
Montana Smith said:
The film and the story was little more than laughing at the fans. The care and the dedication that came through in the original trilogy isn't apparent. It was an awkward "family reunion".

The worst thing fans could do is encourage George to make one more to put things right. Because all he'll do is continue down the road he's set himself upon.
Sorry Montana but I don't think that's true. Do you honestly think Lucas and Spielberg sat down and said "right, let's think of something that will really p*ss the fans off", "let's just cobble a movie together in the cheapest possible way... no one will notice"? I personally don't think so.

I think the problem is more that they were trying to do something they thought would appeal to fans. In reality, people like me and you are the last people they should be listening to and making a movie for. It's akin to trying to date/seduce your stalker. ;)

KOTCS would have been better (IMHO) if they'd (Lucas/Spielberg/Ford) just tried to be more selfish and make a movie for themselves. Problem is of course, now that they are all successful and hugely wealthy/influential men, they probably can't agree on what constitutes the 'best idea'... and ultimately compromise is king.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Darth Vile said:
Sorry Montana but I don't think that's true. Do you honestly think Lucas and Spielberg sat down and said "right, let's think of something that will really p*ss the fans off", "let's just cobble a movie together in the cheapest possible way... no one will notice"? I personally don't think so.

No, it just happens that what Lucas considered to be good was precisely what turned out to be laughing at the fans. They took the brakes off Indy and had fun as they let him roll down hill out of control.

Darth Vile said:
KOTCS would have been better (IMHO) if they'd (Lucas/Spielberg/Ford) just tried to be more selfish and make a movie for themselves. Problem is of course, now that they are all successful and hugely wealthy/influential men, they probably can't agree on what constitutes the 'best idea'... and ultimately compromise is king.

I think they did make a selfish movie. Lucas is always in control of the story, therefore KOTCS represented his idea of how Indy would appear in 2008. He thought it would be cool to nuke the fridge. It might have been a clever scene, but it's also a world destroying one. There's no reason to expect he'll tone things down for #5, because Lucas does what Lucas wants, without consideration for fan loyalty.
 
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Darth Vile

New member
Montana Smith said:
No, it just happens that what Lucas considered to be good was precisely what turned out to be laughing at the fans. They took the brakes off Indy and had fun as they let him roll down hill out of control.
I just don't think that's a solid argument. I'm not sure how you think the movie "laughs at fans". That seems a fairly emotional and illogical response (although I obviously respect your opinion to dislike the movie). You suggest something conspiratorial. I see nothing to support that view.

Montana Smith said:
I think they did make a selfish movie. Lucas is always in control of the story, therefore KOTCS represented his idea of how Indy would appear in 2008. He thought it would be cool to nuke the fridge. It might have been a clever scene, but it's also a world destroying one. There's no reason to expect he'll tone things down for #5, because Lucas does what Lucas wants, without consideration for fan loyalty.
I think Lucas would have made a much more individual and original movie if he'd not had to compromise. I don't for a second think that a 'better' movie would have been 100% guaranteed (it may have been worse), but I do think it would have been infinitely less passe (which was my biggest single gripe about KOTCS). For me, the flaws that KOTCS contain (the ones I can equate to 'technical' anyway) rest mostly at the feet of Spielberg.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Hasn't the idea of the Fridge been an idea which Spielberg has always liked going back to 1981 (the Back to the Future draft)? I think Spielberg ALWAYS wanted to get a nuclear fridge scene out of his system in some way or another and at some point, Lucas either put it in to get Spielberg to better support his vision--throwing him a bone, so to speak--or they came to an agreement about the scene, that it should be in there. We'll likely never see any of the story conferences for any of the scripts, so we'll never know how it went down, but given the Back to the Future draft, I think the Fridge came from Spielberg's end.

I don't think anyone was "laughing at the fans" and I don't think KOTCS was ever about that. While I agree with Montana Smith on many things regarding KOTCS, I can't agree here. It is clear that for Spielberg at the very least, Indy 4 was a project FOR the fans. Without us begging all those years, it wouldn't have gotten made. There was popular demand for it after LC. Just because you don't like the way something is executed doesn't mean the way it was executed was meant as a personal offense or affront toward you; Just because you don't like the vision KOTCS offered, that doesn't mean it was meant to be a joke on the fans.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
KOTCS is to Indiana Jones what Space Balls was to Star Wars.

It took anything that mattered in the original trilogy, and replaced it with pure farce. Therefore nothing matters in KOTCS. It might as well not exist. Ergo, it might as well have been a dream sequence.

It amounted to what I wrote:

The film and the story was little more than laughing at the fans.

The idea that The Beards would decide to take the next one more seriously is a joke worse than any in KOTCS. Why should they? Lucas and Spielberg presented KOTCS to the world as the culmination of 19 years of waiting. That's the world Indy inhabits now, and the paper thin characters he calls his friends and enemies.
 
Montana Smith said:
The idea that The Beards would decide to take the next one more seriously is a joke worse than any in KOTCS.

I agree, ostensibly.

All Lucas seems to require as justification is box office. You would be hard put to deny Skull has all the proof he needs however childish.

Spielberg, on the other hand, has publically admitted failure.

I contend there is a ray of hope. Not a Raiders ray of hope but potentially a Crusade ray of hope.

Spielberg still has the need for approval and understands a character driven piece.

Lucas is going to die trying to prove he's right.

They fought over Indy shooting first, it stayed and remains the herald of the character.

Spielberg needs to do some work on this one. Nevermind what George needs to do.
 

indyjones2131

New member
Whenever Lucas has spoken in the last 10 years (and recently regarding Red Tails), he's downplayed EVERYTHING he's involved in as being intentionally cheesy or goofy. It's clear that he knows he's lost "it", and is trying his best to temper expectations to create a sort of can't lose scenario. Raiders may have lighter moments, but the cheese level is NOWHERE NEAR what is found in the SW prequels or KOTCS

Also, as far as if they intentionally made KOTCS a bad movie -yeah they did in a way. They intentionally went with a bad concept, fake sets instead of shooting on location, CG, a goofy take on a legendary movie character, etc.

They HAD to know better.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
indyjones2131 said:
Whenever Lucas has spoken in the last 10 years (and recently regarding Red Tails), he's downplayed EVERYTHING he's involved in as being intentionally cheesy or goofy. It's clear that he knows he's lost "it", and is trying his best to temper expectations to create a sort of can't lose scenario. Raiders may have lighter moments, but the cheese level is NOWHERE NEAR what is found in the SW prequels or KOTCS

Also, as far as if they intentionally made KOTCS a bad movie -yeah they did in a way. They intentionally went with a bad concept, fake sets instead of shooting on location, CG, a goofy take on a legendary movie character, etc.

They HAD to know better.

Not necessarily. It was more like (on Steven's part): "Harrison is getting older every day. The fans want a movie. The public in general wants a movie. They've been aching for it. George won't really budge on the aliens thing, which I don't want and Harrison isn't into. I loved Frank's script, George rejected it. We've been at this standstill since 1993. He says we'll call them "Interdimensional Beings", whatever that means. Fine, whatever. George says he'll bend by putting the crystal skull element in, making it more adventure like. I don't really want to do this film, we left it golden back in 1989, but Harrison, George and the fans want it. I'll just go along and have my closer, David Koepp, do as best as he can, before Harrison gets too old. And I'll finally be able to get an atomic test scene in a film, something I've wanted since 1981. And maybe be able to promote Shia as a credible star."

On Harrison's end: "I loved playing Indiana Jones. It wasn't crappy written dialogue like Star Wars, and it's a lot of fun to do, it's a great character and it's my signature role. I haven't been a top grossing movie star since What Lies Beneath. So, the fans want another romp, George wants another, I want to go back and revisit Indy and show everyone I still got it, and maybe this'll re-establish me as a blockbuster star."

George's end: "You know, working with Harrison in 1992 during Young Indiana Jones, I realized...We could make another Raiders picture. And then I thought, you know, Harrison's a little older now, we can't set it in the 1930s anymore. The 1940s..I don't know, 1949 maybe. But the 1950s....What's a good analogue for the 1950s? Aliens. Science Fiction B-Movies are to the '50s what Pulp Serials were to the '30s, so it's only natural that if Jones is moved into the 1950s, he comes up against aliens. And you've got the greasers and Russians running around wrecking havoc. And we've seen with the novels and video games' successes that the public is hungry for more Indy. Let's do it. We'll add in some references to the YIJC for the fanboys, bring back Marion to delight the fans, give Indy a child to possibly take up the mantle. It'll be great."

So production rolls on and there's both a sense of unease, a sense of compromise and excitement. It feels like it's 1989 all over again, like it's a family reunion, the beards have compromised, this is the last shot we got of seeing Harry on screen as Indy. It's Indiana Jones, what could go wrong?

That's probably the thought processes that were at work. Not "Hey, let's do everything we can to ruin Indiana Jones and upset the fans." It wasn't flipping us the bird. We were very much in mind. But they went into this with a compromise of a story, the result of one guy having a very clear vision and a desire to do this, and the other guy not really wanting to do it at all, and Harrison egging both on to do it, all while also wanting to please the fans as much as possible. They wanted to make the movie they wanted to see, while also wanting to please the fans, and that's haphazard. And it's the result of two film makers who are older guys, fathers, and have softened up and are willing to laugh more, and it's taking into account Harrison being almost elderly and having to work with and around that, as well as George's obsession with the '50s and science fiction.

Raiders wasn't made with any "fans" in mind. It was purely the film George and Steven wanted to see, and together with Larry Kasdan they made it a reality. Purely their own nostalgia for 1930s and 1940s serials mixing with late 70s/early 80s film sensibilities and a desire to do something unique. It was a film by George, Steven and Larry, with their own enjoyment in mind, and it happened to be a huge hit. TOD was the result of their personal turmoil bleeding over onto the screen, again a movie flowing purely from their creative juices and not from any desire to "please the fans." LC was made to apologize to the fans, send Indy off on a high note and as such we get a rather formulaic, "safe" romp with Sean Connery on board which was supposed to end the series triumphantly.

So you come to KOTCS, which feels uneven and rushed because it's cobbled from several scripts in a weak compromise, plus a rush to get it done before Harrison gets too old, plus Lucas and Spielberg being older and more politically the correct, the question of "should we address Harrison's age or not in the fim", plus Shia, plus loads of fan service and references since the project was for the fans from the outset, with a sense of finality and closure.
 
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Kernunnos

New member
Good post, Raiders112390.

The alarm bells went off for me when Spielberg said "We're doing this for the fans."

Filmmakers, as with any sort of artist, should always create what they want to see, before any other consideration.

Like I've just said on another thread, the older Indiana Jones is a character I want to see again, but have Lucas and Spielberg still got it in them to do the character justice? I've got no doubts about Harrison.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Kernunnos said:
Filmmakers, as with any sort of artist, should always create what they want to see, before any other consideration.

Unless the arist in question is George Lucas. He needs to be committed to an isolation wing for the good of humanity.
 

Kernunnos

New member
Montana Smith said:
Unless the arist in question is George Lucas. He needs to be committed to an isolation wing for the good of humanity.

I can't disagree with that sentiment.

Even if he did write the story HE wanted to see regarding the older Indy, I wouldn't have any money on it being one that I wanted to see.

Having said that, we might all be surprised yet. If ever I've wanted to be proved wrong, it's on this subject, with regards to Lucas.

Just for once, I'd like him to let someone else have the final say. To have some faith in what Spielberg and Ford tell him. Everything I personally didn't like about KOTCS had his dabs all over them, and I'm sure they wouldn't have come out quite like they did if Spielberg and Ford had more say.
 

The Drifter

New member
Kernunnos said:
Just for once, I'd like him to let someone else have the final say. To have some faith in what Spielberg and Ford tell him. Everything I personally didn't like about KOTCS had his dabs all over them, and I'm sure they wouldn't have come out quite like they did if Spielberg and Ford had more say.

His ideas may have been crazy, but the man does own the Indiana Jones license, and can do with it what he pleases.
If I owned something like Indiana Jones, I would be hesitant to let anyone else mess with it also.
 

kongisking

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
Not necessarily. It was more like (on Steven's part): "Harrison is getting older every day. The fans want a movie. The public in general wants a movie. They've been aching for it. George won't really budge on the aliens thing, which I don't want and Harrison isn't into. I loved Frank's script, George rejected it. We've been at this standstill since 1993. He says we'll call them "Interdimensional Beings", whatever that means. Fine, whatever. George says he'll bend by putting the crystal skull element in, making it more adventure like. I don't really want to do this film, we left it golden back in 1989, but Harrison, George and the fans want it. I'll just go along and have my closer, David Koepp, do as best as he can, before Harrison gets too old. And I'll finally be able to get an atomic test scene in a film, something I've wanted since 1981. And maybe be able to promote Shia as a credible star."

On Harrison's end: "I loved playing Indiana Jones. It wasn't crappy written dialogue like Star Wars, and it's a lot of fun to do, it's a great character and it's my signature role. I haven't been a top grossing movie star since What Lies Beneath. So, the fans want another romp, George wants another, I want to go back and revisit Indy and show everyone I still got it, and maybe this'll re-establish me as a blockbuster star."

George's end: "You know, working with Harrison in 1992 during Young Indiana Jones, I realized...We could make another Raiders picture. And then I thought, you know, Harrison's a little older now, we can't set it in the 1930s anymore. The 1940s..I don't know, 1949 maybe. But the 1950s....What's a good analogue for the 1950s? Aliens. Science Fiction B-Movies are to the '50s what Pulp Serials were to the '30s, so it's only natural that if Jones is moved into the 1950s, he comes up against aliens. And you've got the greasers and Russians running around wrecking havoc. And we've seen with the novels and video games' successes that the public is hungry for more Indy. Let's do it. We'll add in some references to the YIJC for the fanboys, bring back Marion to delight the fans, give Indy a child to possibly take up the mantle. It'll be great."

So production rolls on and there's both a sense of unease, a sense of compromise and excitement. It feels like it's 1989 all over again, like it's a family reunion, the beards have compromised, this is the last shot we got of seeing Harry on screen as Indy. It's Indiana Jones, what could go wrong?

That's probably the thought processes that were at work. Not "Hey, let's do everything we can to ruin Indiana Jones and upset the fans." It wasn't flipping us the bird. We were very much in mind. But they went into this with a compromise of a story, the result of one guy having a very clear vision and a desire to do this, and the other guy not really wanting to do it at all, and Harrison egging both on to do it, all while also wanting to please the fans as much as possible. They wanted to make the movie they wanted to see, while also wanting to please the fans, and that's haphazard. And it's the result of two film makers who are older guys, fathers, and have softened up and are willing to laugh more, and it's taking into account Harrison being almost elderly and having to work with and around that, as well as George's obsession with the '50s and science fiction.

Raiders wasn't made with any "fans" in mind. It was purely the film George and Steven wanted to see, and together with Larry Kasdan they made it a reality. Purely their own nostalgia for 1930s and 1940s serials mixing with late 70s/early 80s film sensibilities and a desire to do something unique. It was a film by George, Steven and Larry, with their own enjoyment in mind, and it happened to be a huge hit. TOD was the result of their personal turmoil bleeding over onto the screen, again a movie flowing purely from their creative juices and not from any desire to "please the fans." LC was made to apologize to the fans, send Indy off on a high note and as such we get a rather formulaic, "safe" romp with Sean Connery on board which was supposed to end the series triumphantly.

So you come to KOTCS, which feels uneven and rushed because it's cobbled from several scripts in a weak compromise, plus a rush to get it done before Harrison gets too old, plus Lucas and Spielberg being older and more politically the correct, the question of "should we address Harrison's age or not in the fim", plus Shia, plus loads of fan service and references since the project was for the fans from the outset, with a sense of finality and closure.

Wow. That's a helluva post. Good work.

I agree with it all, but the obvious difference is that I've decided to embrace the film for its virtues, and tolerate its flaws. And, gosh dang it to heck and back, I think the film is, overall, enjoyable.

Okay, I'm done. Re-commence the hatin'. :p
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
In the dystopian future, large telescreens in public places shall play CS for The Hate sessions and the attending public will vent their fury upon the visions of that traitorous sequel and they will shout out the name of the evil perpetrator who was and is undermining the very fabric of their society by plotting and subversive means: "Lucas!"
 

IndyForever

Active member
TPM3D is underperforming at the box office (I never hated the movie liked it thought it was ok but I understand why some might dislike it). Red Tails is also not doing that well this is all good news for Indy5 as Lucasfilm are unlikely to spend the money on more 3D conversions if TPM3D is not doing the business & Red Tails is not likely to generate a theatrical sequel this should make Indy5 the next Lucasfilm project (finally!!!).
 

Indy's brother

New member
Olliana said:
If only there weren't Spielberg's Robopocalypse and Gods and Kings on the horizon. (n)

It's not an issue, all three of the following are Spielberg quotes:

When he's ready to give me the story that he thinks would make a great Indy 5, then I'll make myself available.
Link

[translated] Right now he is, I think ready for a fifth movie. And when the clock rings once, then I am a director in immediately."
Link

When he decides to make one, I'm there!
Link

There are a few other quotes along these lines, but these are the better ones, and you get the idea anyway. Sounds like he's willing to drop everything and jump right in....whenever George decides to devote/invest himself into seriously developing Indy 5. Which by all counts seems the least likely, and frustratingly the most crucial part of the process thus far.
 

IndyForever

Active member
Olliana said:
If only there weren't Spielberg's Robopocalypse and Gods and Kings on the horizon. (n)
Spielberg works really quickly so no problem by the time Lucas has the story ready for Spielberg to give input on Robopocalypse will be in the can already!
 
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