Shia: Miscast?

For me, Shia wasn't miscast. He nailed what Lucas and Spielberg wanted for the character - a boy trying so hard to be a man.

The problem I see is Shia is usually put into roles where he has to act like a crazy panic-stricken fool (Suburbia, Transformers, etc...).

The scene that depicts this the most (and sticks with me - because I found it totally funny) is the scene in Transformers 2... The scene where he screams like a girl when he finds out the girl seducing him is a Decepticon!

Was Indy emascluated? Perhaps.

I would have considered Indy still man enough to put a kid in his place, but old Indy in the YIJC was out of his time and oft ignored or dismissed. It makes him more relatable as how often do we see "tough guys" with kids they can't control these days? How many war heros who have seen things we can't imagine and survived horrors we hope never to see, are abandoned and negelected, even abused and mistreated by the young today?

Whilst ignored, does that diminish what they are or what they did or is it just the perception of the young that is myopic?

The dagger scene, well times change as do attitudes so perhaps his old grave robbing ways are well and truly over, (officially). Mutt's ignorance vs Indy's outdated ethics.

Saw David Attenborough's Madagascar documentary, which showed him back in the 60's collecting animals for zoos, and he showed how the whole attitude to this has changed now.

It belongs in a museum vs fortune and glory shows some of Indy's duality or character progression.

I found Indy has rounded off some of his edges, but doesn't that come with age? We have to address his age in some form to accept the character being played by someone 20 years older than when we last saw him.

Age, time and experience changes us all.

Back on topic, I found Mutt to be a pretender, not the to Indy throne but as to what he was portraying as his image. Much as Shia descrribes him to be...a manboy. Young and ignorant to Indy's past. We can't ecpect him to hero worship an "old guy" he's never heard of, yet he respects Ox who he considers a friend and great man.

Shia played the role as intended as far as I can see....that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I think Shia was miscast in that he was not ready as an actor to do justice to an Indy sequel. He's only young yet and he might develop the ability to portray an onscreen persona the way an actor should be able to. I think he should attend acting school (I'm not joking) and reinvent his approach to acting. He has yet to develop a real screen presence and this immaturity as a budding actor shows in his performances. Unfortunately for Shia, he shows no physical presence. This is not just his stature, but the way he conveys himself in his roles.

The script of CS didn't help Shia either. It seemed it was written to accommodate Shia's shortcomings and not to challenge him. As someone said earlier, a little bit more time between Indy and Mutt would have helped enormously. The interplay they had was insufficient and questionable. The dagger scene was Mutt being an upstart and moral conscience for Indy. This was out of place and lowered the character of Indy as a result. All Indy had to say was, "I'll put it in a Museum. Until then, I can really use it." Instead of throwing it back on Mutt, he capitulates to the moralising of a high school dropout and failing greaser ("You don't have to get angry to show how tough you are.") We don't want to see Indy moralised to and I don't necessarily want to see Indy be 'moralistic'.

Mickiana said:

I think Shia was miscast in that he was not ready as an actor to do justice to an Indy sequel. He's only young yet and he might develop the ability to portray an onscreen persona the way an actor should be able to. I think he should attend acting school (I'm not joking) and reinvent his approach to acting. He has yet to develop a real screen presence and this immaturity as a budding actor shows in his performances. Unfortunately for Shia, he shows no physical presence. This is not just his stature, but the way he conveys himself in his roles.

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I totally agree. Shia looks like a lightweight, whereas River Phoenix, at an earlier age, had much more ability and intensity.

Mickiana said:

The script of CS didn't help Shia either. It seemed it was written to accommodate Shia's shortcomings and not to challenge him.

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The script was the downfall of even the better qualified actors. It was a shame that the disease of the SW prequels crept into Indiana Jones.

Touche Montana. The script was the downfall for everyone.

Yes. However I cant think of a single young actor who wouldnt have been miscast. Doesnt seem to be any young, upcoming Fords or Connerys in Hollywood these days.

Nothing against him, I actually like him. He's good at those quirky, goofy every day guy kind of roles, like a young John Cusack or Tom Hanks, but he's no romantic adventurer, thats for sure.

tambourineman said:

Yes. However I cant think of a single young actor who wouldnt have been miscast. Doesnt seem to be any young, upcoming Fords or Connerys in Hollywood these days.

Nothing against him, I actually like him. He's good at those quirky, goofy every day guy kind of roles, like a young John Cusack or Tom Hanks, but he's no romantic adventurer, thats for sure.

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What about the guy who played young Captain Kirk? Would he have been a better Henry Jones 3rd?

Probably better, yeah but still not right I dont think, that guy has too much of a jock thing going on (which is fine for a young James Kirk). The closest I can think of to be honest is a young Sean Patrick Flannery but I cant really think of many actors like him around at the moment. Maybe Sam Worthington, though he might have been a few years too old. But he's certainly got the right look for a son of Indy/Harrison:
http://liveforfilms.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/sam.jpg

I don't think that Shia was miscast in the role, I just think that the role itself wasn't particularly well written or executed from a story and characterisation sense. I didn't think any of the scenes with Indy mutt and Marion worked particularly well, I enjoyed the relationship between Indy and his dad in LC, yet the relationships on KOTCS were a weak point.

There's something about having an established hero and then having a kid / son to tag along with them that really weakens a movie for me. I can't think of an instance where it works well (LC doesn't count either)!

In the case of KOTCS, for me anyway, I wanted to see an Indy movie where Indy was the main source of action and interest. Not to see some kid made out to be the hero in a lot of scenes. He didn't work for me, it was just another character to clutter the screen at the end with 5 heroes all on the quest in the last hour or so.

Shia says it so well, in his own words.


http://www.indielondon.co.uk/Film-Review/transformers-shia-labeouf-interview

Interview by Rob Carnevale

Q. You’ve rapidly become something of a shooting star?

Shia LaBeouf: I’m just an actor for hire, man.

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Translation: "Tool"

Q. Is it difficult to process how fast you’ve risen in terms of the Hollywood A-list?

Shia LaBeouf: Oh yeah, I’m the president of the lucky club. There are so many talented people who don’t work. And the crop of young actors I’m surrounded by is incredible. You look at Jamie Bell, he’s an ace; the dude is incredible. You watch him in Billy Elliot and it’s like: “F***, I can’t keep…” When you have people like that around you it amps you up a little bit. Also, Emile Hirsch and Joseph Gordon-Levitt, or guys like Ryan Gosling. It’s a really good crowd and I feel I’m coming up at a good time. But equally, there’s a lot of good young actors who don’t get to work who are more talented than I. I’m just lucky.

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Translation: Bloody lucky, considering the better talent around.

Q. You have been described as the “face of new Hollywood” and are now working with the likes of Steven Spielberg. Is that something you now have to take on board when approaching projects?

Shia LaBeouf: No, that’s too much weight, that’s crazy thinking. I haven’t accepted any of this yet. It all seems like the craziest thing in the world. I’m a kid from Echo Park and I shouldn’t be working with Steven [Spielberg]. I mean it’s wild when Steven becomes Steven. And “hey Harrison [Ford]”. That’s crazy to me as well. My dad didn’t give a **** about movies, ever. He doesn’t care about any of this stuff, which helps to maintain normality. But then when I tell him something like: “We were training today and Harrison pulled out the whip and started doing whip training… [for Indiana Jones IV]” My dad went nuts because Harrison is a modern day Steve McQueen. So that makes my dad proud of all of this and it’s a great feeling.

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Translation: No, he shouldn't be working with Steven.

Q. And now you’re a leading man in films like Transformers?

Shia LaBeouf: It’s just another gig. There’s a lot of pressure but I can’t think of it that way otherwise it’d be too much for me to deal with. There’s a lot of weight, a lot of pressure, you don’t want to be Jar Jar Binks, you know…

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Translation: No, he saved that honour for KOTCS.

Q. What made you decide to become an actor?


Shia LaBeouf: I didn’t get into this for the craft of it. I got into it because it was available and I was broke. We were living in Echo Park and this was a means to an end. This was a way to support my family. I got a show called Even Stevens and I was getting paid and living in a motel. I didn’t know about the craft until I met Jon Voight and he changed my whole life. Had I not met him I wouldn’t be doing this still. He introduced me to the magic of what this is and books I’d never have read, or movies such as Blackboard Jungle. Voight changed my life and he doesn’t even think much of it. But he changed my whole outlook on the responsibility of an actor, the difference between personality and performance, what you have for sale, what’s for sale, what to say and how much mystery to maintain, how do deal with this type of stuff. I’d never thought about it before.

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Translation: If Jon Voigt had simply given him some money, Shia may never have defiled the 'craft'.

Q. So in that sense you’re self taught?


Shia LaBeouf: That’s what I’m saying. I shouldn’t be here.

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Translation: The honest answer.

Q. Where do you see yourself in 30 years?

Shia LaBeouf: Train conductor [laughs], bag man at the grocery store… that’s the stuff I dream about. I don’t go to bed at night and dream about these fantastic things that normal people dream about… I dream about real, normal **** such as fixing motorcycles because it’s just not accessible at this point. That’s stuff I can’t have, so that’s the stuff I dream about.

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May his dreams come true.

Pretty self effacing...and to reiterate he admitted failure BEFORE Spielberg begrudgingly grew a pair.

Love him or hate him, (or anywhere inbetween), Shia put his trust in the Spielberg Lucas machine...

...unfortunately they think they can go green and turn a classic muscle car into a hybrid.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Pretty self effacing...and to reiterate he admitted failure BEFORE Spielberg begrudgingly grew a pair.

Love him or hate him, (or anywhere inbetween), Shia put his trust in the Spielberg Lucas machine...

...unfortunately they think they can go green and turn a classic muscle car into a hybrid.

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He almost blamed Steven outright as well.

Shia, May 2011: I feel like I dropped the ball on the legacy that people loved and cherished. I have a relationship with Steven that supersedes our business work. And believe me, I talk to him often enough to know that I'm not out of line. And I would never disrespect the man. But when you drop the ball, you drop the ball. You get to monkey-swinging and things like that and you can blame it on the writer and you can blame it on Steven. But the actor's job is to make it come alive and make it work, and I couldn't do it. So that's my fault.

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Some time after that Harrison supposedly told Details:

I think he was a f***ing idiot. As an actor, I think it's my obligation to support the film without making a complete ass of myself. Shia is ambitious, attentive, and talented - and he?s learning how to deal with a situation which is very unique and difficult.

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My interpretation of that would be that Shia was out of his depth. His talents couldn't rise above the script. Though he wasn't alone in failing to come to terms with the mess of KOTCS, because Ray Winstone and John Hurt didn't look comfortable or fully committed.

Montana Smith said:

He almost blamed Steven outright as well.

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ALMOST.

...where DOES the buck stop after all?

Montana Smith said:

Some time after that Harrison supposedly told Details:

I think he was a f***ing idiot.

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I think the acurate quote was:

I think I told him he was a f***ing idiot.

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...which is an important qualification. He doesn't know, because he's getting gossip and whispered opinions not fact.

Montana Smith said:

My interpretation of that would be that Shia was out of his depth.

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As you defend Capshaw's Willie, that's exactly what Mutt was supposed to be: out of his depth.

Montana Smith said:

His talents couldn't rise above the script. Though he wasn't alone in failing to come to terms with the mess of KOTCS, because Ray Winstone and John Hurt didn't look comfortable or fully committed.

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The true villain of Indy IV: The Script.

Rocket Surgeon said:

I think the acurate quote was:


...which is an important qualification. He doesn't know, because he's getting gossip and whispered opinions not fact.

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That's why included "supposedly". It's a shadowy quote as the original source is no longer accessible.

Rocket Surgeon said:

As you defend Capshaw's Willie, that's exactly what Mutt was supposed to be: out of his depth.

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But there's a difference between the actor and the character being out of their depth.

Rocket Surgeon said:

The true villain of Indy IV: The Script.

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Yes. But who passes the script? Primarily it's Lucas who holds the keys to the story.

Montana Smith said:

That's why included "supposedly". It's a shadowy quote as the original source is no longer accessible.

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I'm with you, and I remember so its easy enough to confirm.

Montana Smith said:

But there's a difference between the actor and the character being out of their depth.

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Without a doubt...which I would contend Capshaw was as well, but then again Shia plays "out of depth" seemlessly.

Montana Smith said:

Yes. But who passes the script? Primarily it's Lucas who holds the keys to the story.

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Lucas collects plot points from various other people and passes it off as his own then Spielberg and Ford agree or not.

After so waiting so long for Ms Right to come along they settled for the best in class.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Without a doubt...which I would contend Capshaw was as well, but then again Shia plays "out of depth" seemlessly.

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Which would make Shia also a one-trick pony. Though he doesn't engage as the out of depth youngster. He just is. Much like the movie.

Montana Smith said:

Which would make Shia also a one-trick pony.

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So it would...

Montana Smith said:

Though he doesn't engage as the out of depth youngster. He just is. Much like the movie.

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He's mostly playing it for laughs, which I have to say: I laughed at him.

Darth Vile said:

Marlon Brando in The Wild One was more an influence on the aesthetic/look and not the personality of Mutt per se. I think the point was that Mutt was pretending to be much tougher than he actually was. It wasn't until he was "in the field" that he realised the "old professor" he was travelling with was much more experienced and tougher than he was... "You're a teacher?"...

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Quoted for truth. I think this is an angle some people aren't seeing.

Stoo said:

Quoted for truth. I think this is an angle some people aren't seeing.

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The Marlon Brando look was all too obvious. It didn't look good on Brando, and just made Mutt look like even more of a tosser as the great pretender.





On top of that, George was merely robbing the '50s bank.

Montana Smith said:

The Marlon Brando look was all too obvious. It didn't look good on Brando, and just made Mutt look like even more of a tosser as the great pretender. .

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They both benefitted from losing the hat...