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Old 06-18-2008, 04:44 PM   #1
foreignerfred
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Spielberg hasn't lost it; he surrendered to Lucas

I've read many threads here saying that Spielberg has lost that 80's action movie magic, and I don't think so. I think Darabont's script is what Spielberg intended to shoot, and it's not watered down, and no, it's not perfect.

People are getting offed constantly throughout, and most of it feels very adult. I think Spielberg's PASSION for Indy IV went into the creation of "City of the Gods"...I mean, he spent a year writing it with Darabont! When Lucas flatly said no to the script, he said no to Spielberg too, and Harrison for that matter (because he liked it as well).

I think at that moment, Steven realized it wouldn't pay to be passionate at this point in Lucas' career. You can tell everyone hates him, but they like some of his ideas. So, Steven knew that the only way they were actually going to get to FILM something was if it was what Lucas ALONE wanted, and so Harrison and Steven surrendered, compromised, and got to do Indy again.

"City of the Gods" is Lucas' plot points through Steven's (and Darabont's) eyes. What you see on the screen in KOTCS is more of Steven's ideas Lucas-i-fied.

Just my opinion.

and yes, I like KOTCS!
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Old 06-18-2008, 04:50 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by foreignerfred
I've read many threads here saying that Spielberg has lost that 80's action movie magic, and I don't think so. I think Darabont's script is what Spielberg intended to shoot, and it's not watered down, and no, it's not perfect.

People are getting offed constantly throughout, and most of it feels very adult. I think Spielberg's PASSION for Indy IV went into the creation of "City of the Gods"...I mean, he spent a year writing it with Darabont! When Lucas flatly said no to the script, he said no to Spielberg too, and Harrison for that matter (because he liked it as well).

I think at that moment, Steven realized it wouldn't pay to be passionate at this point in Lucas' career. You can tell everyone hates him, but they like some of his ideas. So, Steven knew that the only way they were actually going to get to FILM something was if it was what Lucas ALONE wanted, and so Harrison and Steven surrendered, compromised, and got to do Indy again.

"City of the Gods" is Lucas' plot points through Steven's (and Darabont's) eyes. What you see on the screen in KOTCS is more of Steven's ideas Lucas-i-fied.

Just my opinion.

and yes, I like KOTCS!
Great, except there is no evidence for what you are suggesting, only your own fantasy. Obviously Spielberg still loves his "best friend" George Lucas. Ford also is at ease with GL in interviews & seemed to like the script just fine. So - no, unless you come up with some evidence, then you are wrong.
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Old 06-18-2008, 04:56 PM   #3
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The choice to shoot it locally without going to other countries fer real, at all... mainly due to monetary reasons... is one great peek into the mindset of Spielberg. He has lost HIS own passion for telling this particular story. It was more of a "let's hang out with Harrison/Lucas, etc." experience coupled with a "The fans really want it so heck let's do it."

But out to prove himself and tell an amazing story he wasn't I think. Not like when he was younger and had that spark. He is still very talented, I just don't think he WANTED it bad enough. You've gotta be hungry.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:01 PM   #4
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Most people blame Lucas. You have that minority that defends him and wonders why Lucas gets the bulk of the blame, but ultimately it makes clear sense. Most everything involved in this film thatís been received negatively had to do with George. Why wouldnít he receive the bulk of the blame? Iíve read beforehand that Steven basically caved into Georges idea for the fourth. I know that Harrison did. Iíve read an interview when he very clearly stated heís not fond of little green men. So ultimatelyÖblame Lucas. Heís box office gold but critical murder. Canít he retire already?
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:15 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by No Ticket
The choice to shoot it locally without going to other countries fer real, at all... mainly due to monetary reasons... is one great peek into the mindset of Spielberg.

I do think Spielberg's priorities have changed over the years, and the impending birth of a grandchild was likely a big factor here. But at the same time, where did the production really need to go? The story was set in North and South America, and Hawaii had already been established as the latter in ROTLA.

I guess they could've shipped everyone off to Peru for a couple of days, but it would've been largely unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by MaxPhactor23
Most everything involved in this film thatís been received negatively had to do with George. Iíve read an interview when he very clearly stated heís not fond of little green men.

Not really. Spielberg was the one who wanted monkeys swinging on vines- even after it was pointed out that the breed doesn't really do that. He said all along he viewed this as a "quintessential family film", and the first movie he's made for all ages in well over a decade. So the idea that he secretly wanted to make a darker film just isn't supported by any facts.

When Lucas first presented the idea to Ford and Spielberg, he basically did so as "Indy and the Attack of the Flying Saucers". But neither Ford nor Spielberg wanted little green men running around in the desert, or Indy witnessing giant saucers battling with the air force. So, as Lucas puts it, he got to keep some aliens but lost the saucers.

The turning point was when the aliens were changed to a dead race, rather than something more akin to Independence Day 2.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by James
Not really. Spielberg was the one who wanted monkeys swinging on vines- even after it was pointed out that the breed doesn't really do that. He said all along he viewed this as a "quintessential family film", and the first movie he's made for all ages in well over a decade. So the idea that he secretly wanted to make a darker film just isn't supported by any facts.

When Lucas first presented the idea to Ford and Spielberg, he basically did so as "Indy and the Attack of the Flying Saucers". But neither Ford nor Spielberg wanted little green men running around in the desert, or Indy witnessing giant saucers battling with the air force. So, as Lucas puts it, he got to keep some aliens but lost the saucers.

The turning point was when the aliens were changed to a dead race, rather than something more akin to Independence Day 2.

If you notice...I said most and not all. Not really? Yah really! George was responsible for the vast majority of what was received poorly. Should the writer not be blamed anyway? That doesn't mean Steven gets off scotch free though. It’s fact that George Lucas wanted to run with the alien stuff. Steven made him keep it in check, but he did conform to the idea of aliens. This is the very reason why this film took so long to make. Creative differences! Plus…when last I looked I did see a saucer and living alien in the film. We did watch the same movie, right?
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:26 PM   #7
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Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #8
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That's classy!
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by MaxPhactor23
PlusÖwhen last I looked I did see a saucer and living alien in the film. We did watch the same movie, right?

The ufo cameo is a far cry from the original concept that Lucas wanted to do, though.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by James
The ufo cameo is a far cry from the original concept that Lucas wanted to do, though.

Yes that's true, but they were still retained on a level (unfortunately).
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html



IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!!!

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Old 06-18-2008, 06:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html

Despite the fact that the plot was made before National Treasure 2 was even thought of, that was pretty damn funny. And I liked the movie.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #13
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Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html
Ugh. Flat-out "written by bored teenager" not funny.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:36 PM   #14
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Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html

That is classic. Im working my way through the list now. The Live Free Die Hard one is great.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html

That was hilarious. It is way better than Koepp's script.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:42 PM   #16
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Ugh. Flat-out "written by bored teenager" not funny.

Oh come off it, that **** was hilarious, as are some others(like Live Free or Die Hard, which was better than Die Hard 2 IMO). Remember, I'm on your side; I enjoyed the film
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:21 PM   #17
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Crap double post, but the Spider-Man 3 script is too damn good.

http://www.the-editing-room.com/spiderman3.html

Suddenly, TOBEY uses some metal pipes to make an annoying ringing sound.

TOPHER GRACE

NO! RINGING! MY ONE WEAKNESS!

CGI TOBEY MAGUIRE

Wow, that’s like the worst weakness in comic book history. A ****ing phone call would knock you on your ass.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:10 PM   #18
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I agree with this thread
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
Check this out. Rich jerks (Bwahahahahahaha!)

http://www.the-editing-room.com/indianajones4.html

This is awesome. It reads like a MAD Magazine spoof. Whether you liked the movie or not, you have to admit this is funny.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:31 PM   #20
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Lucas can't win. KotCS comes out, and people say "this movie sucks because A, B, and C! I bet the Darabont script never had that kind of crap! Lucas never should have rejected the Darabont script!"

And then the Darabont script is leaked and found to have some of the same goofy stuff as KotCS, and suddenly it's "Lucas sucks! The only reason Darabont's script sucked is because Lucas forced him to include A, B, and C!"

All Lucas did was come up with a vague story and approve the final script. The script wasn't perfect, but it appears to have been the best draft written in time for Harrison Ford's "now or never" demand.

KotCS's real problem was the over-the-top action scenes, lack of suspense, and funky cinematography. All of my disappointments lie with Spielberg. The story and characters were as good as I could have realistically expected.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:52 PM   #21
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We are not in the 80's!!!
You are not going to see an 80's action movie!!!
Youll see a 2000's action movie now. things change!!
we know we all enjoy them but open up for something new. Hes changed why cant you??
If you want an 80's action movie now, then you are in for a big dissapointment, or make one yourself...it could be awesome!!
but me..im fine with the movies now pretty much, and im not a film maker. So im going to sit back and wait for the new movie classics.not trying to relive and old classic. Even though raides is an homage to classic serials.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by salussolia
We are not in the 80's!!!
You are not going to see an 80's action movie!!!
Youll see a 2000's action movie now. things change!!
we know we all enjoy them but open up for something new. Hes changed why cant you??
If you want an 80's action movie now, then you are in for a big dissapointment, or make one yourself...it could be awesome!!
but me..im fine with the movies now pretty much, and im not a film maker. So im going to sit back and wait for the new movie classics.not trying to relive and old classic. Even though raides is an homage to classic serials.

Well Rambo 4 pretty much captured the 80s action movie feel, so Stallone proved it was possible to make an 80s style action movie in the 2000s.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:42 PM   #23
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Well Rambo 4 pretty much captured the 80s action movie feel, so Stallone proved it was possible to make an 80s style action movie in the 2000s.
Well yeah but i dont know why some people want to live in the past or something. try something new
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:44 PM   #24
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Maybe because the new stuff sucks. Sly had to come back to show us how it's done... twice.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:45 PM   #25
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Maybe because the new stuff sucks. Sly had to come back to show us how it's done... twice.
true most of the new stuff scuks but when we filter out the crap we might find a classic
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