Indy V as a Hammer Film

Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
avidfilmbuff said:
No I have not read the Monkey King script, but I have downloaded it, I'll read it eventually. The whole haunted castle thing seems an interesting idea, but I really love the idea of placing Indy against a Christopher Lee type cult leader. Perhaps a character along the lines of Boris Karloff's character in the Black Cat.
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The haunted castle in "Monkey King" is really hokey but I do recommend the Transylvania Young Indy esisode. Are you familiar with the '65 version of H.Rider Haggard's "She"? Christopher Lee is Ayesha's right-hand man similar to what you've described and considering Lee appeared in another Young Indy tale (Austria), it's easy to imagine him in a Hammer-type, Indy film.

Violet Indy said:
I do love the idea of a Hammer feel to Indy V, as I quite enjoy those and also enjoy the monster B movies of the 50s (such as "Creature from the Black Lagoon", which would have been a good foil for KOTCS). In which case, if Eden was the MacGuffin you could do something decent for the snake.... Though I do remember reading somewhere about an idea Lucas and Spielberg had about Indy being eaten by a giant snake and escaping, which was eventually shelved and I wouldn't be surprised if this idea was to surface in an Indy V with Eden.

Also another monster B-movie influence could be the Harryhausen films of the 50s and 60s such as the Sinbad movies (I watched "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" recently and couldn't believe the ending's similarity to the ending of KOTCS with the pyramid and it's source of power). The Sinbad films are closer to the 30s serial genre than 50s scifi movies and could be more easier to swallow for the audience, of course, with hopefully A movie quality.
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Yeah! "Golden Voyage" is high adventure and a very Indy-like story! It's from 1974, btw;) As a kid, I saw it at the theatre and the demon's face in the flames scared the $*!# out of me! (Big Sindbad fan here and I got Harryhausen's autograph in person a couple of years ago. I'm not an autograph collector but couldn't pass on the opportunity.(y))

emtiem said:
I've heard a Hammer-style Indy movie suggested before, and I like the idea a lot! I think it'd be a lot of fun to have Indy up against someone like this- a big nighttime climax in the caverns under a castle on the side of a mountain somewhere in the middle of Europe, complete with thunder and lightning outside? All as Indy battles to stop an evil cult attempting to free the Devil himself from his bonds and let him walk the Earth?
Indiana Jones and the Creature from the Pit? Yeah, bring it on. You can have Di Vinci Code-style undercover cult members at every turn (in the police, army etc.), secret libraries full of texts that have been banned by the church, a thrilling cable car ride up to the castle... works for me.
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I would love to see a cable-car scene! As for the undead, a giant snake and the Devil, himself, this thread may interest you: Indiana Jones III - The Cave of Death?
 
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avidfilmbuff

New member
Violet Indy said:
I do love the idea of a Hammer feel to Indy V, as I quite enjoy those and also enjoy the monster B movies of the 50s (such as "Creature from the Black Lagoon", which would have been a good foil for KOTCS). In which case, if Eden was the MacGuffin you could do something decent for the snake....:rolleyes: Though I do remember reading somewhere about an idea Lucas and Spielberg had about Indy being eaten by a giant snake and escaping, which was eventually shelved and I wouldn't be surprised if this idea was to surface in an Indy V with Eden.

Also another monster B-movie influence could be the Harryhausen films of the 50s and 60s such as the Sinbad movies (I watched "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" recently and couldn't believe the ending's similarity to the ending of KOTCS with the pyramid and it's source of power). The Sinbad films are closer to the 30s serial genre than 50s scifi movies and could be more easier to swallow for the audience, of course, with hopefully A movie quality.
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A Harryhausen Indy film, now that could be interesting.
 
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deckard24

New member
When each of the McGuffins from the first three films were revealed in the finale, they had supernatural elements but no true movie monsters(giant serpents, Minotaurs, werewolves, vampires, that sort of thing). Yeah there were the Ark wraiths, but they were very brief and came across almost more hallucinatory then real. Then Skull came along, and showed living breathing 9 foot aliens and a spaceship too. My point is, that the films worked better in my opinion when the total power of the McGuffin was still left ambiguous, retaining some what of a realism to the film. Of course the Indy films aren't about total realism, but for the most part everything but the big finale reveal has been, and to introduce true Harryhausen style monsters would seem out of the realm of Indy. At least in my opinion.

The Golden Voyage of Sinbad is a terrific movie, but belongs in the fantasy camp with Clash of the Titans and Lord of the Rings, where Indy doesn't.
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Are you familiar with the '65 version of H.Rider Haggard's "She"? Christopher Lee is Ayesha's right-hand man similar to what you've described
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Forgot to mention that the 1965 "She" is a Hammer film!
 
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James

Well-known member
deckard24 said:
Yeah there were the Ark wraiths, but they were very brief and came across almost more hallucinatory then real. Then Skull came along, and showed living breathing 9 foot aliens and a spaceship too. My point is, that the films worked better in my opinion when the total power of the McGuffin was still left ambiguous, retaining some what of a realism to the film.
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I'm not sure why you'd consider the wraiths to be hallucinatory- especially while accepting the alien as real. It's pretty clear that we're meant to assume the power of God is at work in that scene. I mean, there's nothing subtle about having everything shoot up into the heavens, followed by the Ark's lid falling back down to its original position.

Now having said that, I do agree that there are limits to what Indy should encounter. For example, having him involved in massive saucer battles was a bit much, and a far cry from seeing him encounter an ancient race in South America. But the previous movies have established that there are forces at work in Indy's world- and they are not all benevolent. So the character should provide a certain amount of freedom, rather than be limited to what he has already discovered.
 
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Darth Vile

New member
James said:
I'm not sure why you'd consider the wraiths to be hallucinatory- especially while accepting the alien as real. It's pretty clear that we're meant to assume the power of God is at work in that scene. I mean, there's nothing subtle about having everything shoot up into the heavens, followed by the Ark's lid falling back down to its original position.

Now having said that, I do agree that there are limits to what Indy should encounter. For example, having him involved in massive saucer battles was a bit much, and a far cry from seeing him encounter an ancient race in South America. But the previous movies have established that there are forces at work in Indy's world- and they are not all benevolent. So the character should provide a certain amount of freedom, rather than be limited to what he has already discovered.
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Also worth mentioning (for those old enough to have seen the movies first time around)... the fact that a greater power was at work was genuinely unexpected in Raiders. Right up until the lifting of the Ark lid, the movie had been a fairly conventional (although great) action/adventure. When the Ark started to buzz/whir into life, the audience (along with Indy) realized that this was no ordinary adventure. This is something that was lost with the sequels, and is lost when looking back i.e. the ending to Raiders was quite out of "left field" and shocking for the time...
 
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deckard24

New member
James said:
I'm not sure why you'd consider the wraiths to be hallucinatory- especially while accepting the alien as real. It's pretty clear that we're meant to assume the power of God is at work in that scene. I mean, there's nothing subtle about having everything shoot up into the heavens, followed by the Ark's lid falling back down to its original position.

Now having said that, I do agree that there are limits to what Indy should encounter. For example, having him involved in massive saucer battles was a bit much, and a far cry from seeing him encounter an ancient race in South America. But the previous movies have established that there are forces at work in Indy's world- and they are not all benevolent. So the character should provide a certain amount of freedom, rather than be limited to what he has already discovered.
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Well maybe hallucinatory was the wrong choice of words, but I still consider them more subtle and not on the same level as the inter-dimensional beings from Skull. Maybe it's just my own bias rearing its ugly head?
There was also something more thin and transparent with the wraiths, whereas the IDBs felt more substantial and had a definite concrete physical presence. After all, Indy did carry one of their skulls around throughout half the film.

I guess when you consider that spirits/ ghosts/ wraiths/etc. are continually popping up in personal accounts over the last 2000 years, considerably more so then aliens(as in the Roswell kind), they've kind of become more accepted, and don't feel as far removed as aliens. While I don't necessarily subscribe to the beliefs in this poll, it's interesting anyways. http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=982
 
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James

Well-known member
deckard24 said:
There was also something more thin and transparent with the wraiths, whereas the IDBs felt more substantial and had a definite concrete physical presence.
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Yes, but Indy and Marion clearly felt their presence- even without having to open their eyes. So the wraiths obviously had no problem interacting on a physical level.

I think it just boils down to whether or not you consider Indy to be a pulp hero, similar in concept to Doc Savage. This seems to be how Lucas has always envisioned him, but is not how most fans appear to. Instead, many see Indy as a realistic hero who should only encounter subtle hints of the supernatural.

As I said, I agree that there should be a limit as to what is possible in an Indiana Jones film. I'm just not convinced that it should be solely restricted to what has come before. After all, just about anyone can come up with a plot where Indy goes after yet another Biblical MacGuffin.
 
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deckard24

New member
James said:
Yes, but Indy and Marion clearly felt their presence- even without having to open their eyes. So the wraiths obviously had no problem interacting on a physical level.

I think it just boils down to whether or not you consider Indy to be a pulp hero, similar in concept to Doc Savage. This seems to be how Lucas has always envisioned him, but is not how most fans appear to. Instead, many see Indy as a realistic hero who should only encounter subtle hints of the supernatural.

As I said, I agree that there should be a limit as to what is possible in an Indiana Jones film. I'm just not convinced that it should be solely restricted to what has come before. After all, just about anyone can come up with a plot where Indy goes after yet another Biblical MacGuffin.
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You've got a point, they did feel the presence of the wraiths, still there wispy transparent nature made them a little less physically concrete then the IDBs.

As for the character of Indy, I guess I've always thought of him as you described, a more realistic hero who encounters subtle hints of the supernatural. Even though bringing his father back from the brink of death after drinking from the Holy Grail isn't exactly subtle! LoL Well....it's more subtle then a flying saucer.;)

I'm curious, what do you think are acceptable boundaries as for what is possible in an Indy film? Would you be okay with Pirates of the Caribbean or Clash of the Titans style monsters?
 
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Jones Disciple

Active member
The mention of Clash of the Titans got me thinking about Medusa. What better problem for Indiana Jones than a woman with snakes for hair.

From Wikipedia:

In Greek mythology, Medusa (Greek: Μέδουσα (Médousa), "guardian, protectress"[1]) was a gorgon, a chthonic female monster; gazing upon her would turn onlookers to stone. She was beheaded by the hero Perseus, who thereafter used her head as a weapon[2] until giving it to the goddess Athena to place on her shield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa
 
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vf wing

New member
James said:
My ideal scenario would be an Indy 5 that homages 50's horror, followed by a 6th which homages 50's adventure (ie. Indy and the Garden of Eden). (Mutt and Marion would be sidelined for the fifth, but would return for the finale.):D
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I rather dig this general idea/direction. It'd be cool if they did finish out a new trilogy and went with a darker second chapter, mirroring the OT. Especially one that just threw Indy out there on his own in an original adventure that didn't feel the need to follow the Raiders structure. But I'm a bigger TOD fan than a lot of folks.
 
sandiegojones

sandiegojones

New member
Jones Disciple said:
The mention of Clash of the Titans got me thinking about Medusa. What better problem for Indiana Jones than a woman with snakes for hair.

From Wikipedia:

In Greek mythology, Medusa (Greek: Μέδουσα (Médousa), "guardian, protectress"[1]) was a gorgon, a chthonic female monster; gazing upon her would turn onlookers to stone. She was beheaded by the hero Perseus, who thereafter used her head as a weapon[2] until giving it to the goddess Athena to place on her shield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa
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That idea was suggested back in November:

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=14853&page=81

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=14853&page=84

and I wrote a fan story here:

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=14853&page=88
 
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J

James

Well-known member
deckard24 said:
I'm curious, what do you think are acceptable boundaries as for what is possible in an Indy film? Would you be okay with Pirates of the Caribbean or Clash of the Titans style monsters?
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Probably not, although it would depend on the context in which Indy encounters them. For example, I'm not entirely against the idea of a giant snake, but didn't feel it really worked in the City of the Gods script.

Then again, I had a story in which Indy encountered reptilian men, so what the hell do I know? :D
 
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deckard24

New member
James said:
Probably not, although it would depend on the context in which Indy encounters them. For example, I'm not entirely against the idea of a giant snake, but didn't feel it really worked in the City of the Gods script.

Then again, I had a story in which Indy encountered reptilian men, so what the hell do I know? :D
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I think a giant snake could work, after all there have been documented cases of snakes up to 30 feet long. http://www.reptileknowledge.com/articles/article17.php

The only question is, are we talking a snake like the one in Anaconda, or something the size of the one from King Kong(1976)?

Originally Posted by avidfilmbuff
I'm wondering, what does everyone think about the villain being portrayed by Christopher Lee
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Lee could be a great villain, but he wouldn't be a very physical one, he'd be more along the lines of a mastermind like Belloq or Donovan. The only issue is his age these days, and his ability to actually take part in a film that spans the globe.
 
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Snakes

Snakes

Member
z_vs.p.JPG


Anyone else come across this poster? Too bad this film was never made.

I like the idea of a Hammer style Indiana Jones film, and Christopher Lee would make a great villain any day of the week, especially in an homage to his old horror movies. The Mummy and Dracula both have elements that could work well in an Indy movie. (I think anyway, to be honest I haven't seen either one)
 
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