IESB reveals Blanchett's role

1ord3vil said:

I'm not too concerned about the sword. It does seem slightly out of place, but on the other hand it's just not a big deal. Why are you so concerned about this?

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I'm not concerned with it, that's the point. I don't get why others are griping about it, as if it's a big deal (I guess that doesn't include you).

Cate Blanchett is an excellent actress. I have no doubts that her performance will make things work.

While the quote doesn't relate directly to Cate's character, at least we know this from Ford himself (who had turned down "weak/bad" INDY 4 scripts for years):


Seems highly unlikely that Ford, a stickler for quality script material, would say that about a film with a cartoonish, underdeveloped villain, with whom he'd spend a big chunk of the film acting. Until we know otherwise (for certain), I'm thinking Spalko is shaping up well as a formidable foe for Indy — and looking damn good, too!

WhipItGood said:

While the quote doesn't relate directly to Cate's character, at least we know this from Ford himself (who had turned down "weak/bad" INDY 4 scripts for years):

". . .and, finally, you know, one script came along that really struck me as being smart, not working too hard to give reference to the other films, but that carried on the stories we had told so far in a logical way. The character was allowed to age, and we found ourselves in a different period of time, and what I read was a great script, so I said, ?Let?s go, let?s make this one." (bold emphasis mine)​

Seems highly unlikely that Ford, a stickler for quality script material, would say that about a film with a cartoonish, underdeveloped villain, with whom he'd spend a big chunk of the film acting. Until we know otherwise (for certain), I'm thinking Spalko is shaping up well as a formidable foe for Indy ? and looking damn good, too!

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Ford also is under contract and helping to promote a film which he'll see a significant return from. He's not going to be speaking ill of it thus making his statements utterly invalid. I'll believe it when I see it.

ResidentAlien said:

He's not going to be speaking ill of it thus making his statements utterly invalid.

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Under other circumstances I would agree entirely with you that star's comments about a film are invalid if made before the film comes out, but given that he turned down multiple scripts and is doing this one, I think he genuinely does love the script.

ResidentAlien said:

Ford also is under contract and helping to promote a film which he'll see a significant return from. He's not going to be speaking ill of it thus making his statements utterly invalid. I'll believe it when I see it.

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I guess we can't believe John Hurt when he calls the film "lightweight" and "probably not one of my favorites." He's under contract, after all. His comments might seem negative, but they're actually part of an innovative covert marketing strategy; I mean, he can't be sincere with those opinions. It's in his best interest to say those negative comments and help the wickedly ingenious promotional campaign. He will make more money that way; he signed a contract.

Actually, I bet Ford secretly hates Indiana Jones...hates the films, hates playing the character. He said Indy was his favorite character long before "Crystal Skull" came into being, but he was actually just promoting the three existing films, hoping to increase DVD sales. After all, he signed a contract, and he's making money off them (even though he really detests all things Indy). Now that the new film is done, of course, when he says those things, he's trying to help out the current film. But in actuality, at the end of every day during shooting, he went to his trailer and threw poo at pages of the script taped to the wall.

(PS: Harrison Ford actually isn't human at all; he only claims that he is to help his movie sales. He's really a reptilian humanoid from Zeta Reticuli)

oki9Sedo said:

Under other circumstances I would agree entirely with you that star's comments about a film are invalid if made before the film comes out, but given that he turned down multiple scripts and is doing this one, I think he genuinely does love the script.

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From the guy who accepted Hollywood Homicide, script choice seems not to be one of his strong points.

commontone said:

Good points jasper...a few promo stills do not give us the most important tool for evaluating, which is context. We have no context yet within which to judge things like costumes and weapons, or anything really. We just have a restless sea of rumor, conjecture, hopes and projections.

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[laughingly]There you go again -- broadening the argument. BTW, I'm still waiting on your response on our Fertility Idol Temple Debate No one is talking rumor conjecture or hopes. As you recognize, we're talking about a costume -- but I'm willing to broaden the argument.

commontone said:

Of course everyone has gut reactions, which can't be dismissed totally. Personally I'm pretty happy with everything I know about Indy 4 so far, including Cate's hair, costume and (*gasp!*) sword.

I'm curious, what would be acceptable for those who don't like the sword? Should Spalko be a ninjitsu master? Or have throwing knives? Or be an expert archer? Or not have any unique characterization of her violent side?

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As I indicated above, part of the problem has to do with gender. There was nothing exceptional about either Belloq or Donovan's appearance. Each actor made the character -- especially Paul Freeman's performance. Just think of the range of emotion exhibited by Belloq (think of the outrage in his voice when he says "The girl was mine!!!") in Raiders.

My fear is that Spalko's hair, sword and exaggerated uniform evidence that someone, somewhere was not confident enough in Kate Blanchett or the Spalko character to deliver a compelling villain. As I have said before, I doubt Blanchett's ability to deliver -- and I'm in agreement with Finn that she won't be able to deliver anything approaching the depth of Freeman's Belloq performance.

But who cares about the quality or originality of the adversary? Sadly too often around here, when a fan cries foul over an element of the fourth film that is not up to snuff, the reflex response has been "well the Indy films are supposed to be comic bookish anyway". That's the problem -- that devolution is what happened in the prior sequels -- and frankly it is a garbage response.

And for the sword, that question misses what I would have done differently. Bottom line, I would've cast different -- someone (constumed normally without any wig or prop as trite as a sword). My female lead would have range and depth of expression. Even someone like Naomi Watts (see Painted Veil) or some no-name that looks genuine (earlier, I had jokingly suggested Annie Leibovitz) would've been a better Spalko. The only Director in the non-drama realm that comes close to giving us a nuanced leading female performance is Tarantino with Uma Thurman in Kill Bill -- and while we can argue about Thurman's range and talent, in Kill BillTarantino gave a strong, thinking female character that did not need a sword as a crutch to establish her character (other than to provide the excuse to shoot the fantastic establishing shot of Thurman walking through the Tokyo Airport at such a low angle).

I can not tell you how much I hope I'm wrong about Blanchett -- but there's nothing in the Spalko pictures to support anything other than a shallow stock villian with a 1970's Bond villain-type interest in swords.

Finn said:

They should have gone snow. I hope Indy doesn't win this one simply because he's got more or less the home field edge.

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I agree but Lara Kroft beat us to the snow -- when I saw the shots of the Soviet Amphib craft, my first thought was that this could get silly.

ResidentAlien said:

Ford also is under contract and helping to promote a film which he'll see a significant return from. He's not going to be speaking ill of it thus making his statements utterly invalid. I'll believe it when I see it.

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I guess his years of rejecting draft after draft by different writers just wore him down until he accepted the latest crappy script in a total sell-out, eh?

I'll keep an open mind until I see it.

Joe Brody said:

[laughingly]There you go again -- broadening the argument. BTW, I'm still waiting on your response on our Fertility Idol Temple Debate No one is talking rumor conjecture or hopes. As you recognize, we're talking about a costume -- but I'm willing to broaden the argument.
....
And for the sword, that question misses what I would have done differently. Bottom line, I would've cast different -- someone (constumed normally without any wig or prop as trite as a sword). My female lead would have range and depth of expression. Even someone like Naomi Watts (see Painted Veil) or some no-name that looks genuine (earlier, I had jokingly suggested Annie Leibovitz) would've been a better Spalko. The only Director in the non-drama realm that comes close to giving us a nuanced leading female performance is Tarantino with Uma Thurman in Kill Bill -- and while we can argue about Thurman's range and talent, in Kill BillTarantino gave a strong, thinking female character that did not need a sword as a crutch to establish her character (other than to provide the excuse to shoot the fantastic establishing shot of Thurman walking through the Tokyo Airport at such a low angle).

I can not tell you how much I hope I'm wrong about Blanchett -- but there's nothing in the Spalko pictures to support anything other than a shallow stock villian with a 1970's Bond villain-type interest in swords.

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George Lucas was absolutely spot-on about one thing: "People write their own movie, and when yours isn't the same as theirs they get upset." The depth to which you've decided what is best for this film can only mean you'll be disappointed, no matter how it turns out. All I mean to say is, I don't have a problem with the sword, the hair is fine, her overall look seems promising and fitting. You are doubting the integrity of the whole enterprise based on a few stills taken for Vanity Fair, and it seems like this one snapshot of Spalko is confirming a whole host of worries you've been harboring for some time.

Cate Blanchett is a serious, versatile actress. She's at least as talented as either of the actors who played Belloq or Donovan (I think a lot more). I sincerely doubt anyone involved was worried whether Cate would be able to bring depth and nuance to the character (have you seen "I'm Not There"?).

I was actually broadening the argument as a way of saying, "OK, I'm about done with this." A long protracted debate is futile given our positions. I'll go back and take a look at the Fertility Idol thing, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was avoiding a challenge or something like that.

she is definitely my type so far. I don't get why people are nitpicking and complaining, imo she is already the most attractive girl in the series. I love the pale skin/black bob look, & I think she'll be the more dominating type whereas Elsa from the Last Cruesade was really submissive underneath her nazi act, she also had some serious emotional problems & was a real slut.

I think there's one fundamental wrong in this discussion - why do we keep comparing Agent Spalko to Belloq and Donovan? Her slot is clearly closer to that of Dietrich and Vogel. Especially the latter was not much more than your basic matinee cartoon stooge. Yet we're not complaining about neither of them.

What made the relationship between Indy and Belloq so special was that they weren't basically enemies. They were rivals. It's just that sometimes their competition lead to those extremities as seen in Raiders. There's certainly no hate towards Indy in Belloq when he discovers him in the Well of Souls, he's more like a guy who's cornered his opponent's last piece in a game of checkers.

And word "rival" is the key here. If we're to look for an in-depth villainous performance, we shouldn't look to Blanchett, because she clearly wasn't hired to play the role in the first place. We should look to Ray Winstone and how his Mac turns out. If he manages to deliver like Freeman or at least like Julian Glover did (even though he may turn not out to be a villain in the purest sense), Spalko can fall as flat as she likes.

I never thought cate was particularly hot before but I have to reitterate, DAAMN, she is really foxy. I almost hate the fact that she is bound to be killed by Shia Labouf. ****...

indyfan85 said:

I almost hate the fact that she is bound to be killed by Shia Labouf. ****...

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And who says that their duel's going to end in her demise?

Finn said:

I think there's one fundamental wrong in this discussion - why do we keep comparing Agent Spalko to Belloq and Donovan? Her slot is clearly closer to that of Dietrich and Vogel. Especially the latter was not much more than your basic matinee cartoon stooge. Yet we're not complaining about neither of them.

What made the relationship between Indy and Belloq so special was that they weren't basically enemies. They were rivals. It's just that sometimes their competition lead to those extremities as seen in Raiders. There's certainly no hate towards Indy in Belloq when he discovers him in the Well of Souls, he's more like a guy who's cornered his opponent's last piece in a game of checkers.

And word "rival" is the key here. If we're to look for an in-depth villainous performance, we shouldn't look to Blanchett, because she clearly wasn't hired to play the role in the first place. We should look to Ray Winstone and how his Mac turns out. If he manages to deliver like Freeman or at least like Julian Glover did (even though he may turn not out to be a villain in the purest sense), Spalko can fall as flat as she likes.

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Good points, Finn. Though it does raise a question for me about Ray Winstone and Mac: in the ComicCon video piece, Harrison Ford clearly introduced Ray as "my sidekick"... even before he introduced Shia as "my other sidekick."

Granted, this was an informal promo piece for the fans, but it never gave me the vibe that Mac would be as adversarial as Belloq or Donovan was to Indy. Of course they were deliberately not dealing out spoiler info in the vid... but then again, "Mutt" was clearly visible on Shia's jacket and yet I don't recall anyone mentioning the name until the foreign book descriptions came out much later.

I think Mac will ride the ethical line between good and bad as a friend/rival of Indy's, but even the VF article describes Spalko and the Russians as the new film's equivalent of the Nazis. Everyone is totally mum on Mac's character, though, which is interesting in itself.

As for the casting, I would guess (can't prove yet) that Blanchett would not have been hired to play a role as relatively small as Dietrich or Vogel were in their respective films. She's been the top lead in most of her films, and it seems unlikely she'd get billing under Ray Winstone, or take a role with less screen time than his character.

All just speculation until we get official info, but food for thought. On that note, I really enjoy the discussions on this forum -- sorry I didn't join up sooner. Cheers, all.

WhipItGood said:

As for the casting, I would guess (can't prove yet) that Blanchett would not have been hired to play a role as relatively small as Dietrich or Vogel were in their respective films.

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If we don't count Elsa, Vogel actually got most screentime out of bad guys in LC. Also, there is a pure "comic book villain" in every Indy movie. In Raiders it's Toht, ToD it's Mola Ram and LC it's Vogel. What is alarming though is that at the moment it appears Cate will be KotCS' only villain villain. Having a stereotypical character there is somewhat disturbing.

Finn said:

If we don't count Elsa, Vogel actually got most screentime out of bad guys in LC. Also, there is a pure "comic book villain" in every Indy movie. In Raiders it's Toht, ToD it's Mola Ram and LC it's Vogel. What is alarming though is that at the moment it appears Cate will be KotCS' only villain villain. Having a stereotypical character there is somewhat disturbing.

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True, but I'm figuring Cate will occupy the Elsa role in terms of casting, and perhaps be second-billed to Harrison. Also, with the earlier comment about Mac's ethical uncertainties, I'm hoping he will occupy some of that darker ground as well. I still don't get how Spalko can be figured on as shallow or stereotypical this early on from just a few stills, but then again it means there's no evidence to argue to the contrary either.

The waiting game ensues. Got to hand it to LFL et al for keeping this tight a lid on such details only 4.5 months out from release. I'm happy to remain in the dark a while longer to make the fun last.

I was thinking one of the Russian cast members we know about, or Alan Dale or Andrew Divoff, would play the Vogel-type cartoon role. Between Spalko, Mac's purported dark streak, a cartoony Russian, and lots of generically evil Russian soldiers, the villain aspect should be well covered.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that massive Igor dude will kind of stand ominously and threateningly in the background for most of the film, in a way that has the audience saying, "Whoa, he'll be a tough one to beat when Indy eventually fights him." Then in a key moment during the climactic action sequence, he'll step into the frame amidst ominous John Williams music, and Indy will kind of recoil like, "Oh, ****," and we'll get a great fight where Indy gets his ass beaten but pulls through in the end.

commontone said:

I was thinking one of the Russian cast members we know about, or Alan Dale, would play the Vogel-type role. Between Spalko, Mac's purported dark streak, a cartoony Russian, and lots of generically evil Russian soldiers, the villain aspect should be well covered.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that massive Igor dude will kind of stand ominously and threateningly in the background for most of the film, in a way that has the audience saying, "Whoa, he'll be a tough one to beat when Indy eventually fights him." Then in a key moment during the climactic action sequence, he'll kind of step into the frame amidst ominous John Williams music, and Indy will kind of recoil like, "Oh, ****," and we'll get a great fight where Indy gets his ass beaten but pulls through in the end.

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To carry on the tradition of Pat Roach? That would be cool.

commontone said:

George Lucas was absolutely spot-on about one thing: "People write their own movie, and when yours isn't the same as theirs they get upset." The depth to which you've decided what is best for this film can only mean you'll be disappointed, no matter how it turns out.

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[In a sincerely good-spirited tone]Word-to-the-wise: know the history of a place before lecturing on what Lucas was "spot-on" about.

Read my link (I start at post #10) and you will see that there's a lot of Indy IV that I agree with. I'm a just huge fan pre-disposed to critical analysis -- and not some fanboy shouting empty praise or wiseass hater. I'm not going to dribble on here about what looks O.K. Read my four+ years of continuous posts and you will find an unwavering faith in the project. Despite that devotion, I'm just not going to sit back and drink the kool-aid without questions. I just want to get the flavor right. O.K.?

commontone said:

Cate Blanchett is a serious, versatile actress. She's at least as talented as either of the actors who played Belloq or Donovan (I think a lot more). I sincerely doubt anyone involved was worried whether Cate would be able to bring depth and nuance to the character (have you seen "I'm Not There"?).

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I've taken the measure of Blanchett's body of work -- and that's why I'm worried. I was worried before I saw the photos -- and her get-up gives me additional concern. Again, I hope I'm wrong -- but I think we've seen all that she has to offer -- and I just don't think there's enough there.

Finn said:

If we don't count Elsa, Vogel actually got most screentime out of bad guys in LC. Also, there is a pure "comic book villain" in every Indy movie. In Raiders it's Toht, ToD it's Mola Ram and LC it's Vogel. What is alarming though is that at the moment it appears Cate will be KotCS' only villain villain. Having a stereotypical character there is somewhat disturbing.

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You may be right about Blanchett in the Vogel slot -- but if she is the main villain you succinctly articulate my concern. Like Whipitgood, I see her as the main villain -- with the Mac character as sort of a Sallah/Elsa character (sidekick with a mind of his own). Your right too about the key to the Belloq/Indy dynamic was the rivalry -- I wonder what will be the key to the Spalko/Indy dynamic. With that hair -- Spalko has to be significantly younger than Indy, so they can't be peers and relate to each other on a the world-is-changing level. Assuming she's 37-ish -- that would mean that she was in her early twenties during the war -- could there be a past? I doubt it. Let's just hope it's something interesting.

Joe Brody said:

[In a sincerely good-spirited tone]Word-to-the-wise: know the history of a place before lecturing on what Lucas was "spot-on" about.

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Honestly, I've lost interest in this. But the thread you linked to...wow you've really written your own movie! Don't get me wrong, it's cool to read how vividly you imagine your ideal Indy 4. But you've got about 300 details you've stated you would like to see in the movie, down to characters' back stories and everything. You have very specific, thought out ideas about the shape of the movie. You're on your way to writing a screenplay, really. How is that not writing your own movie? This is exactly what Lucas was referring to. I can't help but think you're setting yourself up for the ultimate disappointment. As for the rest I've said my piece on Ms. Blanchett. I'm off for the nightly midnight jog...