Do you like it that Indy and Marion married?

Do you like it that they married?

  • You like it.

    Votes: 25 67.6%
  • You don't like it.

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • New girl.

    Votes: 5 13.5%

  • Total voters
    37

Stoo

Well-known member
goodeknight said:
I'm not much on the YIJC, but in one episode, didn't his kids (son and daughter if I recall) come get him out of lockup? He was jabbering about breaking out of a Nazi prison castle. Was one of them supposed to be an incarnation of Mutt?
To answer your questions, Sir Goodeknight:
1) Indy's lawyer is due to show up at the police station (not his kids).
2) The prison castle he jabbered about wasn't a Nazi one since it was during WW1.;)
3) No family member (seen or unseen) in any bookend is ever specified as being his son.
Archaeos said:
Do go on, please... I would love to read some elaborations...
You mean because of the guitar-playing grandson and the daughter, i.e. Mutt's younger sister?
Correct. Many people/fans don't give a tinker's cuss about the Old Indy segments and don't want to consider them canon since they were cut from the "Adventures of Young Indiana Jones" VHS/DVD releases. Being a staunch defender of the TV bookends' place in Indy-lore, I am pleased that the wedding took place...on film.

Without a marriage at that period in Indy's life, the various, younger, family members in the TV series wouldn't make much sense, unless some extremely convoluted explanation could be imagined to justify their existence. The best part is that the timing of the wedding works well with the ages of those whom are shown/referred to in the Old Indy scenes. (Whether that was intentional or coincidental is anybody's guess!)

For in-depth conversation about the family of his later years, see these threads:
Indy has a daughter?
Indiana Jones and Marion Ravenwood's Daughter
Indy Timeline post '57
 

Goodeknight

New member
Stoo said:
To answer your questions, Sir Goodeknight:
1) Indy's lawyer is due to show up at the police station (not his kids).
2) The prison castle he jabbered about wasn't a Nazi one since it was during WW1.;)
3) No family member (seen or unseen) in any bookend is ever specified as being his son.

Well, three strikes for me. (And please pardon the faux pas about the Nazi castle.)

I did come across a great YIJC bookend, dinner table scene (Thanksgiving?) with a room full of Indy relatives. Saw it on a neat place called StooTV on YouTube. ;)
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Archaeos said:
I agree with you. This closure is the one single aspect that makes me doubt that Lucas is truly serious about a fifth film, or that he will be capable to find a story that weaves KOTCS further into a fifth story that builds on the marrying ending of KOTCS.

I didn't see the wedding as a 'closer' for the series at all, really. But it fits and if it keeps us from having another Indy (since Harrison is past the age most would accept him as Indy) then that's fine.

:hat:

Archaeos said:
All this talk about V is just coming to terms and dealing with guilt and professional dissatisfaction that the Beards have after their glorious grandious fourth attempt blew up in their faces like a nuclear puff of smoke.


That's kinda silly to say that they felt any 'guilt' or what have you. We're not in their heads. And people kept asking them about V just like they did about IV. I do wonder if they'll ever stop asking. The beards shouldn't feel guilt even if they did anyway.
:hat:

The film was a box office and a success with moviegoers and critics. Of course they're going to toil with the notion of another one. It hardly blew up in their faces. Nothing's come to fruition and that's just fine. They need to just say "we're done", though. I'd be happy to hear it. But by keeping the rumor alive, they keep the possibility alive if they DO want to make another. To me, that time has passed, but oh well.


As far as the wedding goes, I don't see how Indy goes out with a "whimper". Happy endings are a good thing.


kongisking said:
If anything, being a dad will inspire him to be even more tough and gritty if their lives are at stake (look how ferociously badass he was trying to save his father from the tank in LC).

Ha! Maybe you're onto something! Liam Neeson ala Taken, except with Indy!
:p
 
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Brooke Logan

New member
foreverwingnut said:
Like it or not, she was always intended to be Indy's true love.

I understand that, and that's fine, but I think the problem for me is that Harrison Ford has such great chemistry with all his leading ladies that it was hard for me to pick one as a favorite or say that's who I wanted Indy with. And that's why I would have liked to see another woman for Indy in the fourth film, to see Harrison Ford work that magic again and create another memorable romance for Indy.
 

Palaceslave_82

New member
I remain on the fence about Indy/ Marion's marriage. On one hand, it's nice to see two characters invaluable to the genre find happiness, after having lived their lives in such turmoil.. But I've always been partial to spunky redheads, ( still grind my teeth when I think about Lucas's decision to turn Willie blonde), and felt that Indy needed a capable, sexy Ginger lass to share an adventure with. Also, having the love interest be a slightly older, worldly woman who's right up Indy's alley( maybe an archaeologist herself) would have still allowed for the "kid sub-plot", even if he hadn't turned out to be Indy's kid. Maybe the lady traveled in Jones' own circles, knew him by his rep,or even from a romantic tryst years ago, and sent the kid to find him, as Marion did. Personally,I liked seeing Marion back, even in slightly diluted form...but I can't help but imagine which actress could have brought a new heroine to life. If they continue with another Indy movie, he and Marion will definitely need to keep that same banter/ spark between them.
 

Brooke Logan

New member
Palaceslave_82 said:
I can't help but imagine which actress could have brought a new heroine to life. If they continue with another Indy movie, he and Marion will definitely need to keep that same banter/ spark between them.

I would have liked to see a new actress and heroine as well.

I don't know if it was just me, but I didn't think Indy and Marion had the same sparks as before. But maybe that's because the story didn't take the time to flesh it out? I don't know.
 

IndyBr

Member
I think it makes sense for then to marry. I mean, Spielberg wanted to bring her back for the "sequel" to Raiders before they decided that each movie would have a new girl.
And I like Marion, so no problem for me.
 

indyrcks

New member
I rewatched it there now the film was on BBC 1 and I love that scene when Indy finally got hitched to Marion it was (y) :)
 
They shoehorned it in so awkwardly, (I did like the hat moment though) I probably would have liked it better if there was a proposal scene instead and left the actual wedding ceremony out of the film...
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I probably would have liked it better if there was a proposal scene instead and left the actual wedding ceremony out of the film...

Yikes, that'd feel so out of place in the film and terribly corny. To this day I still am not a big fan of the wedding scene as it feels so out of place in context of the rest of the film.
 
Dr.Jonesy said:

Yikes, that'd feel so out of place in the film and terribly corny. To this day I still am not a big fan of the wedding scene as it feels so out of place in context of the rest of the film.
So you can't see it working, you know there is an artful way of doing anything, (though the movie lost that touch early) if anything I can see Indy's timing pissing her off...that's my take though its easy to see them mishandling things like they mishandled Marion's entire characeter, aliens, violence, humour...
 
Dr.Jonesy said:

That's your opinion.

Yeah? Like, are you sure Lebowski?:rolleyes:

Actually by all accounts here at The Raven, I think I'm pretty safe, (and accurate) in calling that a consensus more than simply my opinion.

Dr.Jonesy said:
And I still think that the scene would've been blah. That's just me.

...and THAT is the limit of your vision/imagination.
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Actually by all accounts here at The Raven, I think I'm pretty safe, (and accurate) in calling that a consensus more than simply my opinion.

Nope, I would say not. Every single poll regarding 'Kingdom' done here at TheRaven is in heavy favor of 'KOTCS', its scenes and characters and that would include its artful way of doing things.

:hat:

How about the "Do you like 'Kingdom'?" poll? http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=19049&page=7
118 - Yes = 81%

Or how about the 'Rank It' thread? http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=14665

-Where a ton of fans put it 3rd or 2nd in the thread. These fans are long gone off TheRaven and aren't around to defend 'KOTCS' or 'TOD' for that matter so of course it looks

Or the 'Final Word - 1 out of 10' Poll where 73% voted it 'Good' to 'Excellent'? http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=14771

Or look through any poll that asks if the users here are glad it was made or should it have been made. The majority will always vote yes and be on the side of 'Kingdom'. Heck, even in a 'Best Chase Poll' done here, one of KOTCS' chase scenes ranked 3rd and each of its scenes outvoted 'TOD's.

If you want to talk general consensus on TheRaven, then I'd say my side is on the one of general consensus. Not trying to be a pest, here. But when you say the general consensus is the opposite of what it is, forgive me for correcting you. More fans vote in polls than critique in threads. And the numbers speak for themselves.

:hat:

Personally, I think the success in making a good sequel to a tenured franchise like Indy is not in the artful way of doing things but in keeping things the same and less daring. Fans want more of the same!
:p

Sorry, I just think a proposal scene would've just been too corny and silly for the film. I doubt it would've been taken nicely by the audience. At least with the wedding scene we have an undetermined time-window in between Akator and the wedding to kind of go "Well, they could've rekindled and developed their reunion further." With a full blown proposal, it makes it even less believable than it came out.
 
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Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Judging by this very poll, I'd say the film-makers artfully succeeded in putting forth the idea of Indy/Marion marrying. Even though I disagree with them on this note, that is the consensus.

:dead:

But if you think it could be artfully done, how would you have done it? I'm actually curious because to not make the film overlong, it'd be difficult but I'd like to hear some ideas thrown around.


:whip:
 
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Brooke Logan

New member
Dr.Jonesy said:
Judging by this very poll, I'd say the film-makers artfully succeeded in putting forth the idea of Indy/Marion marrying. Even though I disagree with them on this note, that is the consensus.

Well, this poll hasn't had a ton of votes, but actually only 8 more people voted in favor of the marriage scene. It's not a huge difference from those who either didn't like it or wanted a new girl (which is to me pretty much the same as 'didn't like it':D ).
 
Dr.Jonesy said:
Nope, I would say not. Every single poll regarding 'Kingdom' done here at TheRaven is in heavy favor of 'KOTCS', its scenes and characters and that would include its artful way of doing things.

:hat:

I'll address your points more thouroughly when I have a moment, but right off the bat your premise is faulty...

Here's a fine poll which, with far more participants than any you've cited, indicates the art employed is to blame, particularly:the writing. Which is what we're discussing, no? Not people liking the film because of the toy line and acompanying merchandice, or how to rank it, etc...

Since you're indulging in a bit of hyperbole here's a nice parry: since writing is the among the earliest artistic pursuit I'd say the poll shows far more people agree it's where the movie lost touch, (though I was initially referring to Raven members enjoying the first half of the film best...).

So, "Every single poll regarding 'Kingdom' done here at TheRaven " is gross and absolute mischaracterization and a misstep which makes taking the rest seriously, difficult to say the least.:hat:
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'll address your points more thouroughly when I have a moment, but right off the bat your premise is faulty...

Here's a fine poll which, with far more participants than any you've cited, indicates the art employed is to blame, particularly:the writing. Which is what we're discussing, no? Not people liking the film because of the toy line and acompanying merchandice, or how to rank it, etc...

Since you're indulging in a bit of hyperbole here's a nice parry: since writing is the among the earliest artistic pursuit I'd say the poll shows far more people agree it's where the movie lost touch, (though I was initially referring to Raven members enjoying the first half of the film best...).

So, "Every single poll regarding 'Kingdom' done here at TheRaven " is gross and absolute mischaracterization and a misstep which makes taking the rest seriously, difficult to say the least.:hat:

I don't really doubt people taking a liking to the first half more, but we lack the data to say so. I think if we did a poll like the one you cited for 'Temple' or 'Crusade' we'd get the same votes. Even I admit that the writing is a problem with each film following 'Raiders'.

I guess I should've clarified that I meant every poll voting on whether 'Kingdom' is liked or not.
 
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