Elsa's tears?

Indy_Chic

Indy_Chic

New member
Hello Raveners, forgive me if this has already been talked about but I had a look through the board using the search function and couldn't find an answer to my question so I'll place it here...

During the book burning scene in Last Crusade, the camera cuts to a shot of Elsa observing the fire, and she is crying. My question is are they tears of joy or sadness? I remember watching the film with a friend and we both had a different interpretation of the scene which was interesting. I was wondering if anyone here interprets it differently or has anything to share. :)
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
I'd say sadness. She's primarily an historian and archaeologist. The Nazi thing is a pragmatic choice - a ticket to get her to the Grail - in the same way that Belloq wasn't a Nazi, but worked with Hitler to get to the Ark.

She was obsessed, and ultimately possessed by her desire for the Grail. I think there's a case to argue she was just as much a victim of her obsession as she was a legitimate femme fatale.
 
Attila the Professor

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Montana Smith said:
I'd say sadness. She's primarily an historian and archaeologist. The Nazi thing is a pragmatic choice - a ticket to get her to the Grail - in the same way that Belloq wasn't a Nazi, but worked with Hitler to get to the Ark.

She was obsessed, and ultimately possessed by her desire for the Grail. I think there's a case to argue she was just as much a victim of her obsession as she was a legitimate femme fatale.
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Agreed. (And that last sentence in particular says a lot about the double duty Indiana Jones characters play, as genre tropes and as thematic carriers.)

But yes, I'd say it's most definitively sadness. Her walk along the columns, where she's accosted by Indy, goes along with that. (That threatened strangulation, by the way, is one of the harder Jones moments in Crusade, come to think of it.)
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Agreed. (And that last sentence in particular says a lot about the double duty Indiana Jones characters play, as genre tropes and as thematic carriers.)
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These films (especially the original trilogy) endure in part because their characters are a little more substantial than 'lesser' offerings.

Attila the Professor said:
(That threatened strangulation, by the way, is one of the harder Jones moments in Crusade, come to think of it.)
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Ungentlemanly conduct, indeed! An action that suits the roguish nature of an anti-hero. From the stolen flower, to the hand round the neck, and the eventual attempt to save her life, it was a turbulent journey.

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Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Attila the Professor said:
Her walk along the columns, where she's accosted by Indy, goes along with that. (That threatened strangulation, by the way, is one of the harder Jones moments in Crusade, come to think of it.)
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There's a certain resignation to it all!

Yes the strangulation part is a fine little throwback.
 
Indy_Chic

Indy_Chic

New member
Thanks guys, you've been very helpful! It does look like the scene brings out more questions about whether Elsa was more of a victim of obsession than a villain.


Montana Smith said:
Ungentlemanly conduct, indeed! An action that suits the roguish nature of an anti-hero. From the stolen flower, to the hand round the neck, and the eventual attempt to save her life, it was a turbulent journey.
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Certainly gets filed as one of Indy's dramatic pursuits in love ;)
 
K

Kai Hagen

New member
Attila the Professor said:
But yes, I'd say it's most definitively sadness. Her walk along the columns, where she's accosted by Indy, goes along with that. (That threatened strangulation, by the way, is one of the harder Jones moments in Crusade, come to think of it.)
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Actually, he couldn't get himself to squeeze her. Otherwise, Elsa wouldn't have been able to talk. She knew so she that she could just scream.
 
The Drifter

The Drifter

New member
Kai Hagen said:
Actually, he couldn't get himself to squeeze her. Otherwise, Elsa wouldn't have been able to talk. She knew so she that she could just scream.
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If by him squeezing her throat rendered her unable to talk, how on earth would she be able to scream?
 
K

Kai Hagen

New member
The Drifter said:
If by him squeezing her throat rendered her unable to talk, how on earth would she be able to scream?
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That's the point I'm trying to make. She knew that he wouldn't squeeze so she said that she could scream.
 
S

subjectofrome

New member
Agreed. Never occurred to me it would have been anything else. Partly because...well, just because, and partly because she just didn't look like somebody brought to tears by their joy.

Thugee said:
Most likely sadness. I have never thought of it in any other context actually.
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Raiders90

Well-known member
She's a historian and respects art and antiques....Seeing all those priceless books and works of art being burnt probably did sadden her. I don't believe Elsa was really a Nazi. She worked with them to get what she wanted, the Grail, but unlike Vogel or Donovon, I don't think she was a true believer in the Nazi cause. She probably saw Nazism as barbaric and crude, and her association with them as simply a means to an end.

Elsa, in terms of her level of morality and character, IMO isn't that far apart from Indy in TOD. Indy at the start of TOD is a guy who's willing to work with gangsters and sell priceless artifacts to them just to get a big payday. At the start of TOD, Indy himself is a bad guy who becomes a good guy in the end.
 
I Don Quixote

I Don Quixote

New member
Sadness. Whether she be a Nazi or not, she is also a scholar and appreciates literature. She doesn't want to see it destroyed.
 
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