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Old 10-02-2009, 05:20 PM   #1
AnnieJones
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Grey Cloud

I decided to do a thread of,Indiana Jones' American Indian friend,Grey Cloud.He was seen in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles Mystery of the Blues.
I always liked that character.

I wonder how long Indiana Jones knew him before The Mystery of the Blues story was told.Anyway,he was played by Saginaw Grant,who in real life was born in 1936,in Pawnee,Oklahoma and is a member of the Sac-n-Fox,Iowa and Otoe-Missouria Nations.

In the end credits of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles Mystery of the Blues,it said Grey Cloud's double(I'm thinking that means stunt double or something like that)was played by Nick Dimitri.

Grey Cloud can be found on Indiana Jones Wiki here:http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Cloud

Saginaw Grant's Official website can be found here:http://www.saginawgrant.com/

He can also be found on IMDB(Internet Movie Data Base) here:http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0335636/

Last edited by AnnieJones : 10-02-2009 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #2
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:52 PM   #3
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I love his character and I respect this actor but, how the hell can you be a respected in native american culture with a my space page!!!

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Old 10-02-2009, 11:22 PM   #4
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great character, one of my favorites from Young Indy.

I love Native American culture. This past August I was in Arizona on my way over to the Grand Canyon and we spent a night at a Trading Post on the Navajo reservation. Faschinating art and culture, ashame so much of it was destroyed.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:08 PM   #5
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The only video on YouTube that I could find of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles Mystery of the Blues,with Saginaw Grant in it,was one called Ending of "Mystery of the Blues" Episode.Found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcwEI...9960C&index=14

Sorry,but the visual is a little dark.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieJones
The only video on YouTube that I could find of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles Mystery of the Blues,with Saginaw Grant in it,was one called Ending of "Mystery of the Blues" Episode.Found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcwEI...9960C&index=14

Sorry,but the visual is a little dark.


I uploaded both bookends and the preview for MOTB a while ago...



Enjoy!

Last edited by metalinvader : 10-03-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:14 PM   #7
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The last Friday in September is American Indian Day.

I grew up with some American Indian friends.They are part Blackfoot and Crow(I believe on their dad's side).Even though they are part Indian,they look more American Indian than anything.I also used to work with an American Indian woman who is Blackfoot(no relation,that I know of,to the other people I knew).I was also friends with a guy who is part Cherokee.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalinvader
I uploaded both bookends and the preview for MOTB a while ago... Enjoy!

Cool!
Thanks metalinvader!
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
great character, one of my favorites from Young Indy.

I love Native American culture. This past August I was in Arizona on my way over to the Grand Canyon and we spent a night at a Trading Post on the Navajo reservation. Faschinating art and culture, ashame so much of it was destroyed.
Sound great, dr.jones1986! I've never been to the mid-south or the deep interior of the U.S. The closest I've been was a visit to Red Rock Canyon during a trip to Las Vegas. It was beautiful! One of my aunts was born & raised in Arizona and is very well-versed and passionate about the Navajo and their culture/history.

Grey Cloud is a great character and it's too bad we don't know much about him. Using the Wyoming location and the line, "the most sacred relic of my people's past", we can narrow it down to him being either Cheyenne, Crow, Shoshone or Arahapo. Yes? No?

For any Native American experts out there: Are there any tell-tale signs that give a clue as to which tribe he belongs to?

P.S. "Little Big Man" is one of my favourite movies.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:15 AM   #10
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Thumbs down Beware of Wiki

Ha Ha! OMG, I just stumbled upon this. Look at what it says on wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...a_Jones_series

"Great Cloud
Great Cloud is apparently a friend and sometimes sidekick of Indiana Jones. He is played by Saginaw Grant. He enlists Indy's help in 1950 when an ancient pipe is stolen from his tribe; a deadly chase through the snowy mountains of Wyoming ensues. Indy eventually retrieves the pipe for Great Cloud; along the way, their bickering dialogue and familiarity with one another (Great Cloud alternates between calling Indiana "Dr. Jones" and "Indy;" Indy repeatedly tells Great Cloud to "relax," as if he's used to the man's constant worrying) suggests an ongoing working relationship a la Short Round or Sallah."

Not only is the name wrong but he never says the name, "Indy". He says "Dr. Jones" once and that's it. (Facepalm)
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:44 AM   #11
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I noticed recently that when Indy & Grey Cloud are leaving the cabin at the very end, you can see Grey Cloud has a small pouch hanging from the left-side of his belt. I wonder what he keeps in there...
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
I noticed recently that when Indy & Grey Cloud are leaving the cabin at the very end, you can see Grey Cloud has a small pouch hanging from the left-side of his belt. I wonder what he keeps in there...
Medicine or maybe something for the pipe?
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:48 PM   #13
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Apparently Indiana Jones has a history of having American Indian friends.
According to Young Indiana Jones and the Lost Gold of Durango,the 10th young adult novel in it's series,he had a Pueblo friend named Jay from Colorado.And in The Ultimate Guide and Indiana Jones Wiki( http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/1919 ) he knew a Navajo man from New Mexico.

Last edited by AnnieJones : 10-27-2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Grey Cloud is a great character and it's too bad we don't know much about him. Using the Wyoming location and the line, "the most sacred relic of my people's past", we can narrow it down to him being either Cheyenne, Crow, Shoshone or Arahapo. Yes? No?

For any Native American experts out there: Are there any tell-tale signs that give a clue as to which tribe he belongs to?
If we knew what pipe it was,maybe we could find out what tribe it belongs to.I can't remember what the pip from MOTB looks like.Does anyone have a picture of it to put on The Raven?If so please put it up.In the mean time here are some American Indian Pipe websites:
http://www.american-indian-art.com/peacepipes.html
http://www.native-languages.org/pipes.htm
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:16 PM   #15
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The Guy has a fedora...wonder if Indy gave it to him?
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bones
The Guy has a fedora...wonder if Indy gave it to him?
He might have.As a sign of friendship perhaps?
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bones
The Guy has a fedora...wonder if Indy gave it to him?
That's not a fedora, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieJones
And in The Ultimate Guide and Indiana Jones Wiki( http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/1919 ) he knew a Navajo man from New Mexico.
That would be Changing Man from the flashbacks in "Peril at Delphi" who Indy meets in 1913 and again in 1916 (when Indy has his vision quest of the eagle).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieJones
If we knew what pipe it was,maybe we could find out what tribe it belongs to.I can't remember what the pip from MOTB looks like.Does anyone have a picture of it to put on The Raven?If so please put it up.In the mean time here are some American Indian Pipe websites:
I have reason to believe that Grey Cloud is from Alberta, Canada which could narrow him down to being either Crow or Shoshone but will elaborate on that later. For now, I'm off to look at those pipe links. By chance, I happened to grab these screenshots below for customizer, ddschneider1972.


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Old 10-28-2009, 03:57 PM   #18
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Cool! Thanks for the pics Stoo! And for your help! We'll get this mystery solved yet!
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:48 PM   #19
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It kind of looks like this pipe.
http://www.mcmahanphoto.com/lc1166--...912-photo.html
Unfortunately,this website doesn't say what American Indian tribe he belonged to.

Last edited by AnnieJones : 10-28-2009 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:45 PM   #20
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It certainly does, Annie! Nice find. He looks Sioux to me. I did a quick search for Arthur Iron Nest and found this excellent page of photographs of other Indians and their pipes, most of which are the same type. Grey Cloud's is made from 2 pieces. (You can see him attaching them together in the top pic I posted.) The closest examples to his on this page belong to John Comes Again (Sioux), Charles American Horse, William Frog and Shot in the Eye. No tribe info on the last 3. Have a look!

http://www.hempmuseum.org/ROOMS/PEACEPIPES.htm

I also found this excerpt (and put my some of my suspicions in bold). Granted it's from 1907 and the list is obviously not complete:

http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.be...alumetpipe.htm

"The use of the calumet, sometimes called "peace-pipe" and "war pipe," was widespread in the Mississippi valley generally. It has been found among the Potawatomi, Cheyenne, Shoshoni, Pawnee Loups, Piegan, Santee , Yanktonais, Sihasapa, Kansa, Siksika, Crows, Cree, Skitswish, Nez Percés , Illinois , Chickasaw, Choctaw, Chitimacha, Chippewa, Winnebago, and Natchez . In the Ohio and St. Lawrence valleys and southward its use is not so definitely shown."

So far, the look of the pipe is leaning toward Sioux. Whatever the case may be, I'm 99.9% sure that in 1950, Grey Cloud lived in Canada. Evidence to follow...
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
It certainly does, Annie! Nice find. He looks Sioux to me. I did a quick search for Arthur Iron Nest and found this excellent page of photographs of other Indians and their pipes, most of which are the same type. Grey Cloud's is made from 2 pieces. (You can see him attaching them together in the top pic I posted.) The closest examples to his on this page belong to John Comes Again (Sioux), Charles American Horse, William Frog and Shot in the Eye. No tribe info on the last 3. Have a look!

http://www.hempmuseum.org/ROOMS/PEACEPIPES.htm

I also found this excerpt (and put my some of my suspicions in bold). Granted it's from 1907 and the list is obviously not complete:

http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.be...alumetpipe.htm

"The use of the calumet, sometimes called "peace-pipe" and "war pipe," was widespread in the Mississippi valley generally. It has been found among the Potawatomi, Cheyenne, Shoshoni, Pawnee Loups, Piegan, Santee , Yanktonais, Sihasapa, Kansa, Siksika, Crows, Cree, Skitswish, Nez Percés , Illinois , Chickasaw, Choctaw, Chitimacha, Chippewa, Winnebago, and Natchez . In the Ohio and St. Lawrence valleys and southward its use is not so definitely shown."

So far, the look of the pipe is leaning toward Sioux. Whatever the case may be, I'm 99.9% sure that in 1950, Grey Cloud lived in Canada. Evidence to follow...
You don't disappoint Dr. Stoo!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:58 PM   #22
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Even though the character only appeared for a few minutes, I thought the actor had great chemistry with Harrison Ford. It actually made me wish we could have had the character in a film.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:11 PM   #23
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I totally agree with you avidfilmbuff!
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieJones
Apparently Indiana Jones has a history of having American Indian friends.
According to Young Indiana Jones and the Lost Gold of Durango,the 10th young adult novel in it's series,he had a Pueblo friend named Jay from Colorado.And in The Ultimate Guide and Indiana Jones Wiki( http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/1919 ) he knew a Navajo man from New Mexico.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
That would be Changing Man from the flashbacks in "Peril at Delphi" who Indy meets in 1913 and again in 1916 (when Indy has his vision quest of the eagle).
Then the dates that Indiana Jones Wiki and The Ultimate Guide gave are(again)incorrect.The date they gave was 1919.Thanks for the help Stoo!
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieJones
Then the dates that Indiana Jones Wiki and The Ultimate Guide gave are(again)incorrect.


As great as that book is,They really didn't do a great job proof reading the thing.

Also,Let's not forget Indy's America Indian guide from that SW crossover.Granted I know the story isn't 'EU Canon" but anyone think it could have been Grey Cloud?
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