KOTCS Re-Cut

emtiem

Well-known member
StoneTriple said:
There are parts in all the Indiana Jones films that I would have done differently. I wish they hadn't changed Marcus into a bumbling idiot in Crusade, I wish they hadn't done the silly life raft fall or the childish gross-out dinner scene in Temple, shown the ship in Kingdom, or had a double-agent English-speaking monkey in Raiders. However, none of those things needs to be corrected. They're just things that I sort of wince at and move past.

I never realised that Indy fans disliked Indy so much before I came here. I wouldn't change a thing about any of the originals.
 

StoneTriple

New member
emtiem said:
I never realised that Indy fans disliked Indy so much before I came here. I wouldn't change a thing about any of the originals.

A slight wince at a scene isn't even remotely the same thing as disliking Indy or "oh....my.....God...the franchise has been completely destroyed - I must now slam it at every available opportunity and start work on the correct version".
 

Walton

New member
Matt deMille said:
If someone does do a fan-cut, here's my suggestions:

1) Remove the "Doomtown" sequence entirely. Not because of the fridge, but just because I feel the 1950's suburban aesthetic takes you out of an Indy film. Just go from Indy coming over the ridge where he sees Doomtown to the airbase (the distant "Doomtown" could *be* the base).

I liked the Doomtown sequence...but it felt like too long. Maybe just have Indy come over the ridge overlooking the town, hear the distant sirens, "Oh that can't be good," (he takes cover as) the nuke goes off, and Indy crests the ridge overshadowed by the mushroom cloud. I loved this imagery, and I get that it leaves you feeling that Indy is out of his element...as he should; he was in his prime in the 30s - and 40s, which we haven't seen, but getting the message across took too much screentime.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Doomtown was a highlight in KOTCS. It could even be a little longer, as in the novelization there is more of Indy's near-death experience and pain as he staggers out of the fridge. On screen we get little sense of that, which was disappointing.

We know Indy is virtually indestructible, but he does bear the scars and the "mileage" of his various cliffhangers. (The novel also remarks on these scars during the scrub-down sequence).

"Fixing" KOTCS would only fix it for some viewers, and ruin it for others. No film is universally loved or hated. Even "fans" can't agree on whether they like it or not. "Fans" can't even agree on the original trilogy.

If Spielberg decided to do a director's cut, then all we would have is another version to discuss and get heated over. It would be interesting to see, as any addition to Indy's film history would.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
StoneTriple said:
A slight wince at a scene isn't even remotely the same thing as disliking Indy or "oh....my.....God...the franchise has been completely destroyed - I must now slam it at every available opportunity and start work on the correct version".

But you're talking about some of the most enjoyable little moments... it's puzzling to me that an Indy fan wouldn't enjoy stuff like the Nazi monkey or the banquet. Those things are Indy: they exemplify the tone of the whole set of movies. If you don't enjoy them I don't see how you can enjoy the rest of it.
 

StoneTriple

New member
emtiem said:
If you don't enjoy them I don't see how you can enjoy the rest of it.

Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.
 

StoneTriple

New member
emtiem said:
I never realised that Indy fans disliked Indy so much before I came here. I wouldn't change a thing about any of the originals.

Neither would I - which is exactly the point I've been trying to make.

For the record; I'm on vacation next week and will be staying home (have a carry-over week from last year that I need to use up). While I'm home, I'll be enjoying an Indiana Jones marathon - every minute of all four films, while wearing my Kingdom t-shirt. I'll probably read one of the McCoy novels as well.
:cool:
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
StoneTriple said:
While I'm home, I'll be enjoying an Indiana Jones marathon - every minute of all four films, while wearing my Kingdom t-shirt. I'll probably read one of the McCoy novels as well.
:cool:

And God bless you for it!!
:hat:






Oh and I have a Kingdom T-Shirt too! I got the last one at an entertainment store last week.
(y)
 

Cole

New member
StoneTriple said:
Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.
There are lighthearted moments for sure in Indiana Jones, but I always found the humor genuinely entertaining (and not juvenile or unclever).


I've also been meaning to have my own Indy marathon (haven't done it yet).......this might be the weekend - good way to celebrate the 4th of July.

And if you're talking about the black T-shirt with the teaser poster on it? Ya, I'm a dork, I'll be wearing that too.
 

emtiem

Well-known member
StoneTriple said:
Sorry kid, but I do. I can't help you with that.

Franchise I've been on board with since day one - love.
Few minutes of scenes written for children - tolerate.

Well, fine. I think it's sad that someone can't embrace their inner child whilst watching such an exuberant and fun film series. I get swept along in the whole thing; there's nothing I have to merely 'tolerate'. And that doesn't make me a 'kid'; I don't find stuff unenjoyable just because its accessible to kids.

Indiana Jones is as good as this family adventure genre's ever going to get and Raiders is pretty much the perfect incarnation of that.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Cole said:
There are lighthearted moments for sure in Indiana Jones, but I always found the humor genuinely entertaining (and not juvenile or unclever).

I agree that lighthearted moments are an essential ingredient of an Indy movie. After all, comedy gives movie-makers the opportunity to literally get away with murder.

Yet one moment in KOTCS that I wouldn't mind seeing cut is the snake thrown to Indy in the sandpit. To me it's just not funny, it's absurd, but not absurdly funny like the flying fridge.

The only thing it adds is that Mutt has inherited the luck of his father, in running off into the jungle and picking up a boa constrictor like they're dangling off every tree. Cutting down a hanging liana vine would have made much more sense and saved this scene.
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Montana Smith said:
I agree that lighthearted moments are an essential ingredient of an Indy movie. After all, comedy gives movie-makers the opportunity to literally get away with murder.

Yet one moment in KOTCS that I wouldn't mind seeing cut is the snake thrown to Indy in the sandpit. To me it's just not funny, it's absurd, but not absurdly funny like the flying fridge.

The only thing it adds is that Mutt has inherited the luck of his father, in running off into the jungle and picking up a boa constrictor like they're dangling off every tree. Cutting down a hanging liana vine would have made much more sense and saved this scene.

Yes but just picking up a vine is boring... and if you look at it from a screenwriters stand point... you have to deal with indy's fear of snakes some where... where else?

I hated Kingdom of the Crystal Skull... but that scene was warranted. plus its an exposition scene about Indy being mutts dad. where the hell else are you gonna put that? That scene was warranted.

Unless some one can come up with some thing better that fits into the pot which we call Crystal Skull.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Dr. Gonzo said:
Yes but just picking up a vine is boring... and if you look at it from a screenwriters stand point... you have to deal with indy's fear of snakes some where... where else?

I hated Kingdom of the Crystal Skull... but that scene was warranted. plus its an exposition scene about Indy being mutts dad. where the hell else are you gonna put that? That scene was warranted.

Unless some one can come up with some thing better that fits into the pot which we call Crystal Skull.

They could have had snakes anywhere in the jungle - one could have dropped off a tree during the chase, and added another dimension to Indy's involvement in the battle. It just seemed like a very cheap gag. I could even accept the vine swinging monkeys more easily than the snake.
 

Cole

New member
I see how it could be seen as "forced" merely because Indy's fear of snakes is so iconic........but I don't know, I guess it's one of those things you can go with or not. You can't really get around that.

I love Harrison Ford's expressions as he's saying "I think I can feel the bottom." I've always loved all of Ford's little charismatic expressions as Indiana Jones.

And then I thought it was a good way of breaking the news about Mutt......."Why the hell didn't you make him finish school?"

I don't know, I guess it's just a difference of preference - but I liked this kind of stuff.
 

Matt deMille

New member
I think a much better place to have snakes would have been entering the temple (behind the waterfall). Indy says the crystal skull commanded him to go in, then he sees a hall full of snakes, and has to muster the courage to do so. It could also have been a good bonding moment with Mutt, to show him how to overcome things, or have Mutt even encourage Indy. In any event, the temple was pretty empty. They just walked through it. If the floor and walls had been covered with snakes, it would've been a hundred times more interesting.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Matt deMille said:
I think a much better place to have snakes would have been entering the temple (behind the waterfall). Indy says the crystal skull commanded him to go in, then he sees a hall full of snakes, and has to muster the courage to do so.

Well, he wouldn't, actually...they've got the skull with them. Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes - but then they'd need to come up with another way of escaping the Ugha. (Or, honestly, maybe doing away with them all together.)
 

StoneTriple

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Well, he wouldn't, actually...they've got the skull with them. Which would make for a nice gag - Indy, for once, confidently striding into a room with a couple big snakes...)

That could have been done very well and would have really put the snake-fear gag on it's ear. Well done, sir. :hat:
 

Walton

New member
Stoo said:
Why don't you start a petition, then? Let's see how far you get with it.:rolleyes:

You mean GL and SS don't frequent The Raven?

Sure, it's an idea, one for someone with connections. And time. That's not me.
 
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