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View Poll Results: Are the Indiana Jones Films Racist?
No 44 74.58%
Yes - all of them 4 6.78%
Raiders of the Lost Ark 0 0%
Temple of Doom 10 16.95%
Last Crusade 0 0%
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 1 1.69%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2013, 09:25 AM   #576
RKORadio
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An Indian would probably say that white people don't have the final say on whether TOD has negative or insensitive racial overtones and that the final word on such things should go to the Indian people.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:50 AM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
A line from the film is no reason for excuse because Pale's quote sure wasn't written that way in the script. I suppose that my example of an Asian talking English can be called racist but it was using phonetic spelling to approximate a Short-Round-type speech, which has been done here before in numerous threads. It's not unusual for people to use phonetics here at The Raven (one member even had the screen name, 'so wah mu', which is Ke Quan's pronunciation of, "Short Round more") and a common usage is when writing as a German speaking English. Writing like zis is a schterheotypikal vay of portrhaying ze Germananic rhace becauze zat iz not zee vay zey all schpeak Englisch, ja? Now, you being part German yourself, are those types of instances offensive & racist, too?

To be honest, I used to be awfully racist but that has changed over much time and I try harder every day to be more considerate. Maybe sometimes not enough but my Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Egyptian, Tunisian, Jamaican, and African-American friends certainly think that I'm O.K.
OUTRAGEOUS. Henry W, you are the 1st person anywhere to accuse me of "American bashing". I like the States and have been there many, many, many times. Heck, more than half of my relatives are American (living in 8 different states, including your own) and friends & colleagues of mine are scattered all over the U.S. Please reflect on these facts, eh?

What I wrote in this thread was:
"One thing I don't like about reading posts here at The Raven or listening to the IndyCast is discovering how naive & ignorant some folks are (mostly Americans...and I'm sorry to say that...but it's a real & identifiable observation). "

I didn't say that you, personally, were naive & ignorant (as you implied 5 months ago) nor did I ever say that Americans are "stupid" (as you implied). Even intelligent people can be naive & ignorant. It could've been worded better but what I meant was 'unaware & uninterested in Indian culture' and was SPECIFICALLY REFERRING to the fan community at the Raven and the IndyCast*. Please note that I wrote "some folks" and that American fans were "most" of that "some". This is an extremely miniscule portion of the entire country. I also wrote "sorry" and added a sad face emoticon to show that the remark wasn't malicious (not to mention that people from other countries were included in that "some"). It was nothing more than a comment based on what certain Indiana Jones Fans have said + noticing where they are from. This is definitely not a case of "stereotyping others because of where they live".

*If you want examples & statistics, they can be provided.

Hope that makes things clearer. However, if you're thinking about this remark, that is just friendly ribbing, yo!

Your umbrage is irony at its best. If my observation offends you and is "on the same basic page" as racism, then it should help illustrate how some people consider "Temple of Doom" to have racist elements. See how that works?
Fitting image and, yes, everything is cool. The Fonz told me so.


The Fonz is a smart man. Have a good day Stoo. also, I can see why somebody might find Temple of Doom racist but I also think everybody takes things a step too far as far as calling things racist. I also don't think there was any malicious intent when writing the movie.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:56 AM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
An Indian would probably say that white people don't have the final say on whether TOD has negative or insensitive racial overtones and that the final word on such things should go to the Indian people.

Than why are you here claiming that it is indeed racist? Are you Indian?
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:15 PM   #579
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I've watched ToD several times since its release, but I have never seen this racism in it that some people claim is there. Can they point out which scenes and precisely what is the racism depicted? Thank you very much.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
I've watched ToD several times since its release, but I have never seen this racism in it that some people claim is there. Can they point out which scenes and precisely what is the racism depicted? Thank you very much.

Good luck there.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:53 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
Good luck there.

My thoughts exactly.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:51 PM   #582
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I just agree with the Indians that have said TOD is racially insensitive.
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:41 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I just agree with the Indians that have said TOD is racially insensitive.

But I thought only East Indians had the final say. Do you watch and join a lot of fan sites for films you find to be racist?
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I just agree with the Indians that have said TOD is racially insensitive.
Once again... are you an Indian?
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:25 PM   #585
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I'm not Indian but I'm against racism and/or racial insensitivity.

Much of the depiction of Indians in TOD was brownface short of actually browning up - as the Indian government said at the time.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:59 PM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I'm not Indian but I'm against racism and/or racial insensitivity.

Much of the depiction of Indians in TOD was brownface short of actually browning up - as the Indian government said at the time.

What part? What do you find racist about it? (And please do not evade with East Indians find it racist) What scene do you find racist and why? And if you are against racism/racial insensitivity, again, why are you at a web site for fans of a film series you find racist/racially insensitive? Or a fan of the films for that matter.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
I'm not Indian but I'm against racism and/or racial insensitivity.

Much of the depiction of Indians in TOD was brownface short of actually browning up - as the Indian government said at the time.

Surely you must also be opposed to "Die Hard" as that films depiction of European Germanic terrorists isn't a very tasteful view of that race... right?

Right?

Come on guy... you're barking up the wrong tree.

I said it earlier in this thread (December 2012), the only Indiana Jones film that is racist is Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
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Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo
By definition Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is the only entry that is "racist".

"...A race of supreme beings..."
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:20 AM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo
Surely you must also be opposed to "Die Hard" as that films depiction of European Germanic terrorists isn't a very tasteful view of that race... right?

Right?

Come on guy... you're barking up the wrong tree.

I said it earlier in this thread (December 2012), the only Indiana Jones film that is racist is Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Guy is a gal and she is a one trick pony. It is always, "someone says it is racist, so I agree". She does not want to provide examples in the film. I don't think she knows the film well enough to provide them.
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Old 08-17-2013, 02:28 PM   #589
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The only depiction of Indians we get are superstitious villagers who worship Indy and the "educated" Indians we see - such as the Oxford-educated Prime Minister - are shown as evil. The only "good" Indians - the soldiers under the British - are shown but don't speak.

That enough for you?
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:10 PM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
The only depiction of Indians we get are superstitious villagers who worship Indy and the "educated" Indians we see - such as the Oxford-educated Prime Minister - are shown as evil. The only "good" Indians - the soldiers under the British - are shown but don't speak.

That enough for you?

Actually no.

"Educated" Indians? Plural? NO. The only "educated" one, as you put it, is the Prime Minister. Mola Ram didn't get his PHD in Sociology at Oxford. The "snake surprise" guy sure as **** didn't go to LeCordon Bleu culinary school. Your statement that the Educated Indians in the film are shown as evil is a false one madam.

This adventure took place in rural India in the 30's. Not in Dehli. Not in a major city. That's how many of them lived.

Was portraying the Hovitos in loin cloths racist in Raiders, even though there are several tribes in the amazon who still to this day live secluded and unadulterated like the yanamamo?

Hell we've got rural folks here in the states too. Ever heard of the Ozark mountains?

Folks with your demeanor really get under my skin. Looking to call anything racist... and if it's not racist they claim, reverse racism! Blanket statements.

All right... we're going about this the wrong way.
How would you restructure Doom to be racially sensitive in your opinion madam?

Can't wait for this response.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #591
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Mola Ram had to have had some education as he was no illiterate villager.

Just because it wasn't a city didn't mean that they had to use the stereotype of the humble and gods-fearing peasant who worships the white hero.

Again, why are people ignoring what the Indian government said at the time? As the elected representatives of the Indian people, their opinion should carry some weight.
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Old 08-17-2013, 06:35 PM   #592
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Who cares what the Indian government of the time said. They could have said anything. Even Roshan Seth, who played Chattar Lal, said, "Indians are very sensitive about foreigners criticising anything in their country." That was a diplomatic way of saying, "Indians are very sensitive about foreigners saying anything about their country."

Mola Ram was educated in a fanatical cult, obviously. And let's not forget the School of Cardiology!

But where is the racism in the film? Where oh where could it be? It still remains a mystery...to me!
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
The only depiction of Indians we get are superstitious villagers who worship Indy and the "educated" Indians we see - such as the Oxford-educated Prime Minister - are shown as evil. The only "good" Indians - the soldiers under the British - are shown but don't speak.

That enough for you?

No, still extremely vague. You still can't provide examples beyond the indian government says so and the stereotyping you speak of portrays Indians 3 different way according to your post above.(it does show that indians can be different from each other at least 3 ways) I don't think they were saying all indians are evil if educated or all indiana are helpless. Dr Gonzo is right, in the 1930's you don't think there were villiages all over the world with uneducated and superstitious people in them? And again, if the films are soooooo racist and you are sooooooo against racism, why watch them and participate in a Indiana Jones fan site? Do you like the KKK too but hate their racist side?
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:49 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKORadio
The only depiction of Indians we get are superstitious villagers who worship Indy and the "educated" Indians we see - such as the Oxford-educated Prime Minister - are shown as evil. The only "good" Indians - the soldiers under the British - are shown but don't speak.

1.) In a very recent survey -- May, I believe -- 87% of all Indians identified themselves as religious. Congratulations. You've managed to insult some 870-million people because science.

2.) Ritual killings do, and have, made the Indian papers in the 21st Century. As recently as 2012, a young girl was ritually murdered and her liver offered to the gods to improve crop yields. In 2010 a twenty-something male's decapitated corpse was found outside a temple dedicated to Kali in the state of West Bengal.

3.) "India" didn't exist before the 20th Century. Hindustan in Northern India -- the modern Indian states of Haryana, Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, and some parts of Madhya Pradesh & Bihar -- was essentially the only clearly defined unit in Urdu sources. Outside of this region, with Delhi as its capital, were a lot of principalities, fiefdoms, and whatnot that were exploited by the British.

I had a fourth point about the the "power of the rock" being vindicated, but opted to delete it. Perhaps I'll address it at a later point in time.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:03 PM   #595
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Submitted Without Comment

From the November 4, 2013 food issue of The New Yorker, an excerpt from the one-page piece "Butter" by Akhil Sharma, a 1.5 generation Indian-American whose family had an ambivalent relationship to American patterns of food consumption outside the home.

Quote:
We had moved to the United States, from Delhi, when I was eight, settling first in Queens and then in New Jersey. There weren't many other Indians in my middle school. Those of us who brought Indian food from home all sat at the same table in the cafeteria. Boys would wander by our table and sing, "Shiiit. I smell shiiit." They would lean over our shoulders, look at our food - spicy potatoes, okra, bitter gourd - and gag. Things became worse a few years later, when "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" came out: the movie shows Indians eating snakes and monkey brains. At lunch one day, a black boy asked me what I was eating, and I said snake. "Snake!" he began yelling. He sounded both happy and proud. Soon I was surrounded by a crowd. I wanted to fit in, of course, but even more I wanted to lash out.
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:09 AM   #596
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So, it got worse when the film came out or when he told the other kids he was eating snake? It also sounds like they were teasing about the food (while not right, most kids do that) before the film came out.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:29 AM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
From the November 4, 2013 food issue of The New Yorker, an excerpt from the one-page piece "Butter" by Akhil Sharma, a 1.5 generation Indian-American whose family had an ambivalent relationship to American patterns of food consumption outside the home.

Apropos of nothing. Now this, on the other hand, perfectly exemplifies the casual relationship with racism towards Indians segments of the United States still have.



The gentleman with the awesome beard is Waris Ahluwahlia. You might have seen him in one of Wes Anderson's twee flicks. If not there, you might be aware of his budding jewelry empire and general cult of personality. Not sure who the girl is, but the focus is obviously on the dude with the turban. Where in the cultural zeitgeist the turban became wrongly associated with Muslims, I couldn't begin to say.

While I've wasted a lot of time over here detailing the financial concerns with bringing a new Ford-led Indy picture, this entire thread is another very large concern.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:24 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
So, it got worse when the film came out or when he told the other kids he was eating snake? It also sounds like they were teasing about the food (while not right, most kids do that) before the film came out.

Sure, they were teasing him beforehand. But he says it got worse after the film. I won't put words into Sharma's mouth, but presumably he said it was snake because he'd be dealing with the teasing having gotten worse since the film.

* * *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Now this, on the other hand, perfectly exemplifies the casual relationship with racism towards Indians segments of the United States still have.

Yeah, I've been following this story a bit. It's pretty awesome that Gap's employed him as a model. I first saw the image earlier in November in a Gap window, but didn't hear anything further about it until looking to see if there'd been any controversy and finding the article you linked to. The scrawled commentary on the ad isn't surprising, but there honestly doesn't seem to be much of a broader uproar, other than a few "the gap trying to make terrorist look hip" [sic] comments on Twitter, and this note that somebody left in a shirt at a Gap store.

Would a fear of being seen as racially or culturally insensitive hinder a fifth film? Well, I guess that depends in part on whether it hindered the fourth film. Crystal Skull definitely spent less time on exotic locals than the prior films, which might suggest some apprehension about it. That said, we also had the Ughas, who weren't that different than the Hovitos in presentation.

But a fifth film would also be obliged to go somewhere other than the Americas. It also wouldn't be forced to spend so much time getting us up to speed on the era and our older hero, leaving it with more room to spend overseas, and thus more time to be potentially offensive. The Middle East and China are already likely out of the question for political reasons.
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