Barnett or Marshall?

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Indy's Fist said:
Is it possible that the guy in LC was a student visiting Indy at Barnett College from Marshall? I mean New York & Conneticut can't be that far away from each other.

Well, Barnett is in upstate New York, but your point still stands, I suppose. (Though, of course, if he were there for Indy, one at least conceives that Indy might have actually spoken to him.)
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
AnImaginaryBoy said:
Sorry, I didn't realise that! I'm more of a lurker on here, so I apologise for not noticing. Oh dear, I really made a bit of a prat out of myself here, haven't I? Sorry! :(


Yeah, that guy you were asking, he was such an A-hole!:gun:

You all will be happy to know he's continuing his tirade under the screen name "Bruhn" at the KOTCS board at IMDB. He hasn't changed a bit! Still arguing who are "Real" fans and what Indy films are "True/Real". He's such a moron.

He's the reason I left there!

And back to the topic, I have no clue what college is which. I prefer the Marshall college name, but I don't care in the long run.

It's just be interesting to know for sure, though. Anybody go Steven or George's number?
:confused:
 
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Wilhelm

Member
From Indiana Jones wiki:

"It is unclear why Dr. Jones began teaching at Barnett or why he moved back to Marshall, which he returns to sometime prior to the events of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull."
I never noticed before but this line of dialogue from the third revision of Indy 3 script could explain the strange change from Marshall University to Barnett College:

Int. Penthouse Apartment - Day
(Chandler is the previous name of Donovan)
INDY
He's just a professor of Medieval Literature.
CHANDLER
Give the man his due. He chaired the Medieval Studies Department at Princeton University for nearly two decades.
(with a sly smile)
Where do you teach again?
Indy gives Chandler a sour look.


This could explain that Indy is fired from different universities due to his long absences searching for artifacts around the world.

An eliminated scene in the college also reflects this:

Int. Corridor of College Building - Day
Two colleagues, PROFESSOR STANTON and DR. MULBRAY approach from the opposite direction.
STANTON
Where have you been, Jones?
Semester break ended 2 weeks ago.
MULBRAY
You missed another faculty meeting, Jonesy.
INDY
Oh, sorry...
(beat)
But I had it circled in my calendar.
Mulbray and Stanton continue on, shaking their heads and laughing softly.


So in Last Crusade (1938) he's teaching in Barnett College probably because he was fired from Marshall. Maybe after Marcus became the Dean of Marshall University in 1939 he could teach there again.
 
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Lance Quazar

Well-known member
I'm sure this has been discussed at some point, but the impression one gets from watching LC is that Henry and Indy, despite being estranged, are teaching at the same college.

The familiar way Indy says Henry is the one the "students hope they don't get" makes it sound like he knows Henry's reputation intimately. And the drive over to Henry's house when they discover it ransacked seems like it was very much in Indy's neighborhood.
 
Lance Quazar said:
I'm sure this has been discussed at some point, but the impression one gets from watching LC is that Henry and Indy, despite being estranged, are teaching at the same college.

The familiar way Indy says Henry is the one the "students hope they don't get" makes it sound like he knows Henry's reputation intimately. And the drive over to Henry's house when they discover it ransacked seems like it was very much in Indy's neighborhood.


Though Henry doesn't seem too aware of his son's reputation, does he? I mean, from Temple and Raiders it seems clear that people in the know know that Indy's unorthodox and less an archeologist than an adventurer. The government men think he's the man to go up against the Nazis, Chattar Lal recounts tails of his exploits... people know. So why was Henry so surprised to see his son kill some Nazis?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
ResidentAlien said:
Though Henry doesn't seem too aware of his son's reputation, does he? I mean, from Temple and Raiders it seems clear that people in the know know that Indy's unorthodox and less an archeologist than an adventurer. The government men think he's the man to go up against the Nazis, Chattar Lal recounts tails of his exploits... people know. So why was Henry so surprised to see his son kill some Nazis?

I always got the impression, from Young Indy and Last Crusade, that Henry Sr. was more interested in his books than in the life that was going on around him. He was so buried in his research that Indy was virtually ignored after he became independent.

In the third draft quote -

Chandler/Donovan: "Give the man his due. He chaired the Medieval Studies Department at Princeton University for nearly two decades.
(with a sly smile)
Where do you teach again? "

This sounds like a sarcastic comment as Henry had been teaching at the more important establishment. (Forrestal had also taught at Princeton).
 

Montana Smith

Active member
I copied the relevant parts of the wiki pages for both Marshall and Barnett. This may be repetition, but at least they do have references to check.

http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_College

Marshall College is a college in Bedford, Connecticut. It was one of the schools where Indiana Jones taught as a professor of archaeology. Marcus Brody served as Dean of Students and was later succeeded by Charles Stanforth. Brody also curator of the museum here and paid for many of the minor artifacts that Jones retrieved on his expeditions. The college was governed by a Board of Regents.

Indiana Jones was teaching at Marshall College as early as 1925[3]. Just as the spring term in 1931 ended, he and Marcus Brody became involved in the quest to recover the stolen Wohat Statues, which led to Jones finding the Invincible Ruby of Ali Bey. Helen and Helen's friend were two of Jones' students that semester.[4] By 1933, he had switched to Princeton University[3]. By 1935, he had returned to Marshall College. In 1936, his performance as a professor for archaeology was evaluated by Charles Kennedy.

In 1936, Jones was teaching Archaeology 101, when the college received some US government visitors: Eaton and Musgrove. Meeting in a large classroom, they enlisted Jones' help in tracking down the whereabouts of Abner Ravenwood, in a search to prevent the Nazis from finding the Ark of the Covenant.

By 1938, Jones had left Marshall College for Barnett College, but by the 1950s, had returned to the Archaeology Department at Marshall.

Behind the scenes

The college is named in honor of Frank Marshall, a regular collaborator with Spielberg and a producer on all four films. When the college scenes were originally shot for Raiders of the Lost Ark, there was no perceived need to name the college, but when the novelization was being written, the author, Campbell Black, needed to call the college something, so the name Marshall College was conceived. Marshall himself forgot this until, when the film crew returned to shoot the college scenes for Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, he began seeing his name everywhere.

External shots of the Marshall College campus were filmed at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, during July, 2007 for the film Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The Yale Commons was turned into the Marshall College library interior setting, while the entrance to the Sterling Memorial Library served as the Marshall College library entrance. William L. Harkness Hall was used for the archaeology lecture hall and corridor. The Old Campus quad was used for the protest and car crash scene, and Branford College was also used for some of the campus shots.

Appearances

Indiana Jones Adventures: Volume 2: Curse of the Invincible Ruby
Raiders of the Lost Ark (First appearance)
The Further Adventures of Indiana Jones
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull novelization
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull comic adaptation
edit SourcesRaiders of the Lost Ark Sourcebook
The Lost Journal of Indiana Jones

Notes and references

1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 1.16 1.17 Raiders of the Lost Ark Sourcebook
2. The novelization of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull lists the Marshall College Library being established in 1856, suggesting that the college was founded prior to or concurrently with the library's establishment.
3. 3.0 3.1 The Lost Journal of Indiana Jones
4. Indiana Jones Adventures: Volume 2: Curse of the Invincible Ruby
5. "Deadly Rock!"
6. The Lost Journal of Indiana Jones provides the name of a library at the college in the 1930s.
7. The novelization of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull names this library as the one in which Indiana Jones and Mutt Williams crash in 1957.
8. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull comic adaptation and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull novelization
9. The novelization of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull names this chapel as the one in which Indiana Jones and Marion Ravenwood are wed in 1957.

http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/Barnett_College

Established in 1823[1], Barnett College was a college in Fairfield, New York. Indiana Jones was a professor of archaeology there for several years, starting in 1937[2]. Jones' office was located in Hamilton Hall. Marcus Brody also worked at the college, in conjunction with his duties at the National Museum.

Barnett College housed the Dunlop Collection, a set of important historical documents, including one of two known copies of Hermocrates.


Adventures at Barnett College

In the fall of 1937, Snedly assigned Professor Jones three freshman "Archaeology 101" sections, and transfered his seminar "Origins of the Incas 201" to visiting professor Francisca Uribe Del Arco. Despite starting off on the wrong foot with Uribe, Jones and Uribe teamed up after attackers tried to steal a package from Uribe's brother. As the semester was starting, the pair were given a sabbatical to journey to South America to track down the Chimu Taya Arms.

After successfully retrieving the Cross of Coronado off of the coast of Portugal in 1938, Jones met with Marcus Brody at the college to discuss the National Museum's acquisition of the artifact. Jones then met with his secretary Irene and pushed his way through a room of eager students to seek sanctuary in his office. Climbing out the window to avoid the students, he was found by men who took him to New York City to meet Walter Donovan.

In 1939, Jones was at the college when he was approached by a gentleman who needed help with a mysterious artifact. After Jones had realized that it was an Horned Statue from Atlantis and opened it to reveal a bead of orichalcum, the stranger robbed Jones of the statue and escaped. Jones found a clue leading to Sophia Hapgood, and headed off to New York City to find her before the Nazis could. Jones and Hapgood later returned to the college to view a copy of Hermocrates to help them find their way to Atlantis via Monte Carlo and Algeria. After the discovery and destruction of Atlantis, Jones and Hapgood returned to Barnett College and watched a football game, where the winning interception made by Jerry Travis, had been predicted by Hapgood.

Address

When Henry Jones mailed the Grail diary to Indiana, he sent the package to the following address:

Prof. Indiana Jones
Barnett College
Hamilton Hall
Grove Avenue
Fairfield, New York


Behind the scenes

Barnett College is introduced in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, and also appears in the video game Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (the events of which take place in 1939, one year after Last Crusade). It is unclear why Dr. Jones began teaching at Barnett or why he moved back to Marshall, which he returns to sometime prior to the events of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

In LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures, Barnett College serves as a central hub.

While the College's location in Fairfield is first seen on the package containing the Grail diary, which is then shown to be in central New York on a map in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide places the college as much closer to New York City.

Appearances

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (First appearance)
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Graphic Adventure
Indiana Jones and the Arms of Gold
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis comic
LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures (Non-canonical appearance)

Sources

Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide
The Lost Journal of Indiana Jones
Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide

Notes and references

1. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (comic)
2. The timeline in Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide has Jones starting at Barnett College in January 1938, but pages covering Jones' adventures with the Arms of Gold show Jones assigned classes for the Fall 1937 semester.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Pulling the dates out of te wiki posts, Indy's teaching history looks like this:

1925: Marshall College
1933: Princeton University
1935: Marshall College
1937: Barnett College
1938: Barnett College
1939: Barnett College
?
1957: Marshall College

So, Chandler/Donovan's snide question about where Indy is teaching "again" could be a reference to Indy not staying in one place like his father, for whatever reason, as well as Princeton being the senior establishment (as a real location).
 

Wilhelm

Member
Yes, that line could explain that Indy is fired from different universities while his father had a reputation in one prestigious place (Princeton) during 20 years.

This is also reflected in KOTCS where he is fired from the university and during the whole story he has to demostrate that he is more an academic than a grave robber ("This is intolerable", the conquistador's knife, return the skull to his place instead of stealing it, get a family and being respectable etc). In the end of the picture he has what his father wanted: a job as "Associate Dean" in the university. So the whole FBI/Black List subplot was usefull to show this character's development.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Wilhelm said:
I never noticed before but this line of dialogue from the third revision of Indy 3 script could explain the strange change from Marshall University to Barnett College:

INDY
He's just a professor of Medieval Literature.
CHANDLER
Give the man his due. He chaired the Medieval Studies Department at Princeton University for nearly two decades.
(with a sly smile)
Where do you teach again?
Indy gives Chandler a sour look.
Nice spot, Wilhelm. I wonder if the "Where do you teach again?" line was ever filmed because the "Story of IJ & the Last Crusade" LP uses some cut dialogue and one of the snippets is Donovan's line about Princeton.

Anyhow, I like the explanation of Indy getting fired.:D
While the College's location in Fairfield is first seen on the package containing the Grail diary, which is then shown to be in central New York on a map in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide places the college as much closer to New York City.
Unless it's supposed to be a fictional Fairfield, then Ultimate Guide is incorrect because there is actually a real place and it is mid-state*. Check the map I posted on page 6 for where Barnett would be. (As far as I can tell, Bedford CT for the Marshall location is fictional so who's to say that Fairfield isn't?)

*From the New Yorkers I know, almost anywhere north of NYC is referred to as "upstate" but, geographically, Fairfield is almost smack in the middle.

BTW, has anyone else spotted the 2nd Maroons fan at Barnett?:p
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
(As far as I can tell, Bedford CT for the Marshall location is fictional so who's to say that Fairfield isn't?)

*From the New Yorkers I know, almost anywhere north of NYC is referred to as "upstate" but, geographically, Fairfield is almost smack in the middle.

I did a quick Google for Bedford Connecticut and the first page that came up was this one:

http://www.bedfordny.info/html/home.html

The town of Bedford, New York, "...was part of Connecticut in 1697 when a patent fixed the boundaries as a six-mile square and it wasn't until England's King William issued a royal degree in 1700, to settle a boundary dispute, that Bedford became part of New York."

It may not be significant, but it might be part of the creation of the world of Indiana Jones (which from many pieces of evidence is not identical to our own) - hence the use of fictional or partly places.

As an aside, Fairfield, Connecticut, was to become the home of Mignola's Bureau of Paranormal Research and Defense in the Hellboy comics. A case or art influencing art? If the universes of Indy and Hellboy were to collide Indy and Hellboy would surely be crossing paths on matters of the occult.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
ResidentAlien said:
Though Henry doesn't seem too aware of his son's reputation, does he? I mean, from Temple and Raiders it seems clear that people in the know know that Indy's unorthodox and less an archeologist than an adventurer. The government men think he's the man to go up against the Nazis, Chattar Lal recounts tails of his exploits... people know. So why was Henry so surprised to see his son kill some Nazis?

I'm sure Henry could be well aware of his reputation as an archaeologist of occasionally questionable ethics and even as an adventurer and still be surprised to witness first hand the ease with which Indy can kill Nazis.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
As an aside, Fairfield, Connecticut, was to become the home of Mignola's Bureau of Paranormal Research and Defense in the Hellboy comics. A case or art influencing art? If the universes of Indy and Hellboy were to collide Indy and Hellboy would surely be crossing paths on matters of the occult.[/SIZE]

In "BPRD 1946", a tale which goes into some detail about the very early years of the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense", Professor Broom and a BPRD colleague travel to post-war Berlin on a mission to sort through captured documents and objects from the Nazis various occult projects.

The name of Broom's colleague - Eaton.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
In "BPRD 1946", a tale which goes into some detail about the very early years of the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense", Professor Broom and a BPRD colleague travel to post-war Berlin on a mission to sort through captured documents and objects from the Nazis various occult projects.

The name of Broom's colleague - Eaton.

That's a cool connection - I hope it wasn't accidental.

I think we can safely say that Marshall and Barnett are two distinct colleges, both on film and in the expanded universe. The mystery that remains is, as Wilhelm raised, the precise reasons that meant Indy changed teaching locations so frequently: likely a combination of philandering and adventuring during term-time.

An odd associated point is that Brody is Dean of Students, yet he is also curator of a New York Museum. Sometimes that museum appears to be attached to Marshall, and at other times it appears to be just a New York museum.
 

Exulted Unicron

New member
Indy was at Marshall College (in Bedford Connecticut) in 1925-31,where he'd gone back to Princeton University, then returned to Marshall for 1935 and 1936.He continued to teach archaeology at Marshall until 1938, where he transferred to Barnett College (Fairfield, New York). Indy returned to Marshall in the 50s.

One reason given for this is that the dean of Barnett had heard about Indy and had requested his presence at Barnett to teach archaeology to its students.

The only reason Marcus works at both Barnett and Marshall is because of his duties for the National Museum, which has collections at both Barnett and Marshall.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Exulted Unicron said:
Indy was at Marshall College (in Bedford Connecticut) in 1925-31,where he'd gone back to Princeton University, then returned to Marshall for 1935 and 1936.He continued to teach archaeology at Marshall until 1938, where he transferred to Barnett College (Fairfield, New York). Indy returned to Marshall in the 50s.

One reason given for this is that the dean of Barnett had heard about Indy and had requested his presence at Barnett to teach archaeology to its students.


Wikia dates updated:

1925: Marshall College
1926: Marshall College
1927: Marshall College
1928: Marshall College
1929: Marshall College
1930: Marshall College
1931: Marshall College/Princeton University
1932: Princeton University
1933: Princeton University
1935: Marshall College
1936: Marshall College
1937: Marshall College/Barnett College
1938: Barnett College
1939: Barnett College
?
1957: Marshall College

Exulted Unicron said:
The only reason Marcus works at both Barnett and Marshall is because of his duties for the National Museum, which has collections at both Barnett and Marshall.

That explains the Marcus/museum connection, then.
 
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Wilhelm

Member
Maybe in an earlier draft of LC is more explained the change from Marshall to Barnett and the use of that name for the production design team.

Chandler's phrase "Where do you teach again?" could mean that Indy has to teach in different places, unlike his father who teachs in the same university for 20 years.

Why? Maybe because he goes to search for artifacts during long periods. The scenes of Stanton / Mulbray and the students with Irene could be examples of his bad relation with universities. Then in KOTCS he's again fired.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Exulted Unicron said:
Indy was at Marshall College (in Bedford Connecticut) in 1925-31,where he'd gone back to Princeton University, then returned to Marshall for 1935 and 1936.He continued to teach archaeology at Marshall until 1938, where he transferred to Barnett College (Fairfield, New York). Indy returned to Marshall in the 50s.

One reason given for this is that the dean of Barnett had heard about Indy and had requested his presence at Barnett to teach archaeology to its students.

The only reason Marcus works at both Barnett and Marshall is because of his duties for the National Museum, which has collections at both Barnett and Marshall.

Is this just conjecture, or is this based on a source?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Is this just conjecture, or is this based on a source?

At first I thought Exulted's dates were quite a bit off, but when I listed them out the only ones that aren't covered by the Wikia pages are 1931 as the date he left Marshall for Princeton, and Exulted has him still at Marshall in 1938, as opposed to leaving later in 1937. I was also presuming that Indy was at Marshall continously from 1925 until Princeton.
 
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