Dietrich's record player

[Pale Horse]

Originally Posted by Montana Smith

It's quite a revelation to discover that the Raiders props department actually got a few things right.

Elsa in The Last Crusade


Boy she gets around. Like a record....

[BadDates]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

You are the man! Thanks...a great post!

Now can/did you narrow down the model based on the "pouch" on the interior of the lid or the shape of the grip on the handle?

OK, here's the definitive answer from my Dad - it's a modified model 101B. The explanation is in two parts below.

Email #1

"...[T]he life of the 101 was October 1925 to 1931.
The earliest 101 (no suffix) had the winding handle on the front, and needle tins in the lid.
The 101A was still front wound, but had the quadrant 'swing out'
needle receptacle on the front right edge of the cabinet.
The 101B appeared in mid-1927. The winding handle is as seen in the
film: angled on the right hand side.
Attached is an image of a 101B. It looks to me as though there a cut-out where the handle goes in in the film shot?



Haven't got time now to try and pull out another image from the DVD, which might be better.
In the model 101C, there was no cut-out and the handle went in through an escutcheon. Unfortunately the carrying handle is not visible: the 101B had a fairly conventional 'suitcase' type as you can see, while the 101C had a handle that you could press flat against the case; the 'Packawa' (Packaway) handle.
It can only be a 101B or a 101C, that's for sure. Will return to this vital matter tomorrow afternoon...
But I reckon it's probably a 101B. The dating is not known for all the sub-models; but the 101E & 101F are provisionally attributed to late 1928 or early 1929; so the 101C probably came in, shall we say, 'the first half of 1928'.
So the 101B must date between mid-1927 and mid-1928. (It's not a 101D
- that had a different lid catch!)
...
P.S. The models went up to 101N!"


Email #2

"It's definitely a model 101B, & so pretty securely late 1927 to sometime in 28.
Because happily, there is another shot of it, from the other side of its case, when there is shooting, fire &c. at the flying wing.



Clear to see is the suitcase-type carrying handle and above all the cut-out for the winding handle & no escutcheon.
Q.E.D.
(There are actually other things that eliminate later models that we don't have to bother with... e.g. the handle stored in the lid & not on the motor boards &c., &c.)
What is terribly wrong, of course, is the sound-box. The correct type, the 'No.4' with mica diaphragm, as on the previous image I sent, has been replaced by a strange-looking one. It looked suspicious on the first shot: rather too thick, and not sitting quite vertically on the record... I have never seen a sound box of that sort.
So if your contact wants to acquire an accurate 'replica' of the Indiana Jones gramophone, he will have to find one of those strange sound boxes!
...
P.S. There are several 101's on eBay even as we speak..."

[Rocket Surgeon]

Originally Posted by BadDates

OK, here's the definitive answer from my Dad...

Tell him tanks from me! That's a fantastic post...now about the records.

What type would they be playing. I have a few old lead disks, I know they made glass discs, do you think he might have some info on the popular/probable format in '36? '38?

Portable is an interesting term which doesn't mean "light"! Those lead records were really heavy, but somewhat fragile.

Was that pouch for records? I imagine there was a spot on top where the handle snapped in for storage...


Thanks again, this info is very interesting.

[Montana Smith]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

What type would they be playing. I have a few old lead disks, I know they made glass discs, do you think he might have some info on the popular/probable format in '36? '38?

I've never heard them called "lead records" before, though they did almost weigh as much as lead. The old 78 rpm records were made with shellac resin (according to a wiki entry: 25% shellac; a filler of a cotton compound similar to manila paper; powdered slate; and a small amount of a wax lubricant).

Combined with the machine itself, carrying this ghetto blaster around would be be a good all round workout!

[VP]

They are called "clay records" here.

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by BadDates

OK, here's the definitive answer from my Dad - it's a modified model 101B. The explanation is in two parts below.

Excellent posts, BadDates! I really love when Ravenheads contribute this type of detailed information. Your dad nailed it!

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

I have a few old lead disks, I know they made glass discs, do you think he might have some info on the popular/probable format in '36? '38?

I'm pretty sure that glass discs were only made during the 2nd World War when metals were in short supply. 1936-38 might be too early for glass (but I could be wrong).

Originally Posted by Montana Smith

The old 78 rpm records were made with shellac resin (according to a wiki entry: 25% shellac; a filler of a cotton compound similar to manila paper; powdered slate; and a small amount of a wax lubricant).

Some were also made with an aluminum base. (Wish I had kept my grandfather's old Hi-Fi gramaphone and his 78 rpm record collection. Those discs were heavy & THICK! He even had a few of those paper records!)

Originally Posted by VP

They are called "clay records" here.

As far as I'm aware, clay records are what is known as 'acetate discs' or 'transcription plates'. Sometimes they are brown and quickly detiorate each time they are played (since their main purpose was to proof check a master recording and weren't intended for long term use.)

[BadDates]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Excellent posts, BadDates! I really love when Ravenheads contribute this type of detailed information. Your dad nailed it!

Glad to be of service :-) Yes, he's a real expert!

[BadDates]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

Was that pouch for records? I imagine there was a spot on top where the handle snapped in for storage...

Since the nature of the records has been covered by other Raveners, I asked my Dad about just those two points specifically. His response:

"Briefly, yes the records went in the lid, but only 10" (25cm) discs - though the HMV 101 would of course play 12" (30cm) discs.

The winding handle in the earlier 101s (incl. of course Dietrich's) was stored on 3 clips (they used to be called Terry clips, presumably after their originator) at the rear right-hand of the motor board, as in this 101F (strictly speaking a V101F because it was green):



From the 101L onwards, the handle was stored in the bottom left-hand corner of the lid as seen below. Presumably the handle had to be stored somewhere else, as an automatic brake (start-stop) had now been added to the 101, and the actuating arm, attached at the base of the tone arm, would have fouled the 3 clips."

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Kooshmeister

What is Dietrich listening to on his record player? It's turned on because when the explosion occurs we hear the 'vrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip' of the needle going off the record, but I don't recall ever actually hearing any music coming from it.

With the great sound system, I actually heard some music at the recent IMAX screening. Don't know if it's discernable on the Blu-ray but I definitely heard something, albeit, very briefly.

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

I'm pretty sure there's the faint strains of something...I've thought it far to difficult to distinguish in the mix though.

To my ears, it sounded very much like the Vienna Boys' Choir.

---
On a related note, it appears that Belloq also has a gramophone. The 'thing' can be seen in the background when he & Marion are drinking.

[goodeknight]

Elsa: Vas?? Ditriech's whole face melted?? ... Wow... Can I have his record player??


I noticed that during the marathon and wondered if it was the same one. Interesting. Looks to be in better shape, though. Dietrich's is pretty roughed up.