How much of the Saucer Men script will survive in Indy IV?

Reading the overview of the script and looking at what we know about Indy IV there are some important bits in common:

Set in 50's
Harrison said Indy IV would be shot in the US
Wille and Marion and Henry all appear

I've got a feeling that theres going to be a lot borrowed from the 1995 script.

Lucas never throws an idea away...I wouldn't be surprised to see some elements of Saucer Men show up.

Yeah, I'll bet a fair number of elements remain, even if it takes us a while to recognize them (they may be altered significantly.)

I used to really hate the title "Saucermen from Mars," but the more I think about it, the more I think it's right in line with the cheesiness of "Temple of Doom." It really fits the image Lucas is going for (couldn't you just picture "The Saucermen From Mars!" on an old, black & white movie poster?) So, yeah, I still think it's bad, but it's intentionally bad, just like "Temple of Doom" and "Attack of The Clones." Lucas just likes really cornball titles, I guess. Of course, I know the title won't be used, but maybe we can expect something similar.

Hey, in Raiders of the Lost Ark the Army Intelligence officer calls Indy an expert or authority on the occult. What better example of the occult is there? Aliens and UFO's are perfect for the final Indy film. Maybe even tie in Atlantis and the Amazon jungle.

I dont think that any of us really know enough about the saucerman script, remember Monkey King script? Yes it was pretty lame but Lucas harvested it well and truly for ideas for LC and Attack of the Clones for that matter.

I dont think there will be any aliens in Indy IV though even Lucas never wrote it as a serious contendor, he hired Jeremy Boam to do that which he has certainly picked apart for Indy IV.

HovitosKing said:

Aliens and UFO's are perfect for the final Indy film.

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And a perfect tie-in to the 1950s era of the film (time of Roswell crash, and also the time of a lot of UFO b-movies. We all know how much Lucas likes to put new spins on old ideas... it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he's interested in putting his own spin on the UFO films of yesteryear.)

I don't think Darabont has it in him to write a movie about aliens. None of his work has anyting remotely to involve the spectacle of such a storyline. Writers in one genre rarely make the transition from on style to another. Only the Great Authors can really accomplish such a task.

Renderking Fisk said:

"Aliens" or Sauser Men with out being demon's in this Genre would be the worst thing for the Jones Saga.

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Please understand I'm not attacking your idea here, but I still just don't see why you think demons are so appropriate for Indiana Jones, and yet aliens are not. Both are fictional and far-fetched, so why one and not the other?

To be honest, I think both run the risk about being horrible in the film if handled incorrectly, but the only reason I lean towards aliens is because it does fit with the 1950s and with the b-movie motif Lucas enjoys so much.

(though now that I think about it, you may have something with the demons idea-- they do go with the b-movie motif in terms of "Night of Living Dead" and such other films. If that's your reasoning, then I can see where you're coming from. Still, it's hard for me to see Indiana Jones as a demon hunter like Bruce Campbell.)

I can see the logic in using aliens as it would reduce the comparisions with the trilogy to a certain extent (come on how can you get better religious artifacts than the grail or the ark and how many more angles are there to them?)

It would bring something fresh to the proceedings, but they would need to be extremely careful but i suppose they have had enough time to sort out a script.

Renderking Fisk

"Aliens" and Relics of or from God are two mutually exclusive things. In modern Dogma one always seems to cancel the other out.

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"Is that the limit of your vision?" "I am surprised to find you squemish, that is not your reputation."

Ren: I challenge you. Given your personal perspective, think globaly about the ramifications of your belief.

Aliens and the Bible are more closely related then you may understand.

Decide for yourself...
Indiana Jones and the Saucermen from Mars :

(Opening prologue)Borneo 1950,Indy hooks up with an archeologist named Elaine MacGregor , they are confronted by a group of pirates led by the dastardly Baldassare.
Elaine is captured along with an artifact while Indy is left dangling above a pit of flesh eating ants.
Ofcourse he escapes and manages to save the day,he fights the pirates on a riverboat which in true cliffhanger style is moving to a gigantic waterfall...
NOTE : Brody does get mentioned,Indy is in Borneo as a last favor for Marcus

Back home Indy and Elaine decide to get married,everyone shows up Sallah,dad,the ex-girlfriends etc
This sequence has much 'fish out of water' humor as Indy's 'worldy' friends contrast with Elaine's guests.
Everything is all hunky dory...until a 'mysterious stranger' takes Elaine away.
Indy is left for the altar and is ofcourse devestated,luckily Marion and Willie are there for comfort.
Dad makes a few humorous remarks how he still has to pay for the wedding altough no one wed.

Indy investigates Elaine's past and discovers she has ties with the U.S military and a shadowy figure called 'Bolander'(the person Elaine went with earlier).

Indy tracks them down to an excavation site,what he doesnt know is that he has been followed by Commie agents led by 'Cheyslav' who is described as a communist James Bond,someone who has encountered Indy before.
He wears an eyepatch.

Indy is to his surprise welcomed at the dig because they need his assistance.
Meanwhile Cheyslav and his cronies have also arrived...

I think parts of that could definitely survive. See, even though it involves aliens, it still keeps true to the Indiana Jones spirit in such scenes as the raft/waterfall, the ants, etc. Will the "alien" element stay? Who knows. But I tend to think Lucas must have come up with SOMETHING that will differentiate this film from the other three, or why would they agree to do it? As for whether or not that "something" will be aliens... it's anybody's guess at this point. As I've said repeatedly, if they do use aliens, I just hope they handle it properly and don't turn it into too much of a sci-fi movie. We already know Spielberg handled it with proper restraint (and kept it credible) in "Close Encounters," (and even in "ET," though I'd rather not see the alien onscreen quite so much in an Indy film) so I think they could do it right again.

Re: Truth of the matter is...

Renderking Fisk said:

I refuse to believe in something I know to be a lie. Perhaps the beginning of the greatest satanic lie that will bring about the final down-fall of Man before The Tribulation.

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Please try to remember we're just talking about a movie here. Nobody's asking you to believe it (same as I know you're not asking me to believe in demons and angels), we're just talking about what would/would not make a good action film.

Ren,

I really dont understand this obsession you seem to have in making Indy IV follow your own fairly unique (no offence meant) beliefs.
Do you actually believe in the Holy Grail? (it is a purely legendary artifact i think anyone would agree) or the Ark as it was presented in Raiders for that matter
I would really ask what do these beliefs have to do with Indiana Jones?
Aliens are part of our modern mythology, if Indy IV were made about aliens it would be about this....
I would simply say that there is no dogma for Indiana Jones that you seem to want to impose on it

Re: No offense meant. No offense taken.

Renderking Fisk said:

Dejea Vu all over again.

Randy_Flagg said:

Please try to remember we're just talking about a movie here.

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Is there any doubt that we?re NOT talking about a movie here? It?s all academic until they actually start filming. This isn?t anything more then a heated debate among friends about deeper issues. I thought that?s what we?re here for.

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Understood. But I guess my point is that we're not really trying to discuss "deeper issues" when we talk about the possibility of aliens in an Indy movie.

Perhaps I shouldn't say "we," since I don't want to speak on behalf of the other forum members. So let's just say "I." When I talk about whether or not aliens should be in Indy4, I'm considering it on their merits (or lack thereof) in making a good action movie. It's not a question of whether or not I believe in them. (confession: I don't believe in The Force, but I enjoyed the Star Wars movies!)

Religious artifacts belong in JONES. Dinner and desert are great, but not all at once together on the same plate.

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I wouldn't say they necessarily have to be religious. Yes, they've been religious in the past, but Jones is an archeologist... ANY intriguing artifact should be considered.

As for my "relationship with god" (since you brought it up)-- it's quite good, thank you. I may not see him the same way you do, and I'm not aggresively religious (seeing countries go to war and kill each other for the sake of a story written many, many years ago just seems a bit odd in this day and age), but we get along quite nicely. What is "he"? I haven't quite figured that out yet, but I try to stay on my best behavior because, hey, you never know. (and even "he" turns out to be nothing more than a nice bedtime story, at least I know I've gone through life being good to those around me, and I think that's what matters most in the end.)

<< steps down from soapbox >>

Now, if we can get back to this little movie called "Indiana Jones"....

My friends, I respect you all. But I think we may be getting into a heated argument over something that is not really all that important.

I don't mean religion. I mean the fourth Indiana Jones film.

Ren, it is quite all right for you to voice your beliefs, but it seems slightly paranoid to me to suggest that this film is going to sway people towards believing in aliens, or a supreme being, for that matter. It is just a movie. I know movies can influence people, but a simple little popcorn flick handing down a a decision on a question of morality? I find that rather hard to believe.

There is no threat to anything with this film, except perhaps some cultural indignation from some critics and Indy fans.

So let's try to keep this discussion about what elements of "Saucermen" might make it into Indy4 (remember, there were many elements to the plot, not just aliens. I already said that I think elements from the opening gambit would fit in well.)

details of the plot can be found at:
http://www.indyfan.com/articles/saucer.html

Renderking Fisk said:

Speaking of X-Files, just read that synopsys again. Know what, it isn?t that bad. If it were up to me? I would leave it just the way it was but change the Aliens to Mynas? the acient civizations discovered useful ways to harnes plutonium and that?s what ended their rule.

What rubbed me the wrong way? Jones gets captured too many times. With all that action? is he able to keep his fedora?
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Well, this is ironic... I just got around to rereading the synopsis myself, and I thought it was bad... far worse than I remembered! Next thing you know, Ren will be on here promoting an Aliens Vs Jones movie, and I'll be shouting "NO!"

Seriously though, I like the idea of using Mayans. Maybe not in this particular story, but Mayans would definitely work well in a Jones adventure.

(and yes, Jones was captured entirely too many times in this script. I also don't like the idea of him marrying some newbie. If he's going to get married... and I don't think he should... it should be to Marion.)


[Edited by Randy_Flagg on 11-04-2003 at 02:08 pm]

Renderking Fisk said:

Mayan's need to be visited in a Jones flick. What happened to them, where did they go and what did they leave behind. To hell with the Aliens, Mayan's have so much potential. When did they vanish? 900 AD?

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They were abducted by aliens, I thought you knew that.

I agree with Attilia we are going down a tangent

But just to rectify one point the Grail aint in the Bible LC is based on a 13th century epic poem by Thomas Mallory (i think)which set down the Grail legend, and we should all take it as a piece of fantasy