Competitors

Raiders90

Well-known member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Belloq, I don't think any of the novels or other Indy literature deals with any serious competitors of Indy, yet in Raiders it seems the pseudo-grave robbing field is full of competitors, some of whom, like Belloq and Forrestal, have professional and long term rivalries with Indy--sort of like a group of archaeologists who are also something like grave robbers. I wish that end--the darker, more mysterious side--of Indy was further emphasizd.

Also, Belloq says to Indy in the beginning of Raiders, "You thought I had given up." I wish we knew why Indy thought that. I kind of think that having them meet for the first time in 1933 as the novels do is kind of too soon to have the seemingly very personal rivalry they have--That it's something not just a professional rivalry, but a personal one. I kind of get the hint in Raiders that maybe Belloq stole Indy's girlfriend or something at some point, because he emphasizes, "There is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away"--It seems to go beyond just a rivalry.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Belloq, I don't think any of the novels or other Indy literature deals with any serious competitors of Indy, yet in Raiders it seems the pseudo-grave robbing field is full of competitors, some of whom, like Belloq and Forrestal, have professional and long term rivalries with Indy--sort of like a group of archaeologists who are also something like grave robbers. I wish that end--the darker, more mysterious side--of Indy was further emphasizd.

Also, Belloq says to Indy in the beginning of Raiders, "You thought I had given up." I wish we knew why Indy thought that. I kind of think that having them meet for the first time in 1933 as the novels do is kind of too soon to have the seemingly very personal rivalry they have--That it's something not just a professional rivalry, but a personal one. I kind of get the hint in Raiders that maybe Belloq stole Indy's girlfriend or something at some point, because he emphasizes, "There is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away"--It seems to go beyond just a rivalry.

The rivalry between Belloq and Indy goes back to their college days, when Belloq was guilty of stealing Indy's work.

There were rivals in the Young Indy series, and Panama Hat in TLC, whose rivalry (or Indy's grudge against) spans quite a few years.

I haven't read any of the expanded universe novels, so can't comment on them.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
The rivalry between Belloq and Indy goes back to their college days, when Belloq was guilty of stealing Indy's work.

There were rivals in the Young Indy series, and Panama Hat in TLC, whose rivalry (or Indy's grudge against) spans quite a few years.

I haven't read any of the expanded universe novels, so can't comment on them.

I don't remember any rivals in the Young Indy series. I remember the guy who killed Indy's friend, but that guy only is around for two movies and really isn't a rival of Indy--he's just a jerk who killed Indy's friend and Indy takes revenge. It isn't a sort of rivalry where the two know and respect each other.

And Panama Hat only features in LC--It's not like he reappears over the series.

And yeah, their rivalry goes back to college, but as I recall that's only sadly in the unproduced Young Indy episode. I wish they would've made the two episodes with Belloq--that would've canceled out my minor qualms with the series.
 

Exulted Unicron

New member
I know its a part of the games and probably would have been in the novel that sadly never came to light. Magnus Voller. They studied under Charles Kingston together and seemed to be in a close rivalry together.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
And Panama Hat only features in LC--It's not like he reappears over the series.
Even so though it's contained within one movie, Panama Hat does come back into Indy's life after a 26 year gap.

The Marvel comics series also has a couple of reappearing rivals: the dastardly, Ian MacIver and the smug, Ben Ali Ayoob.
 

The Drifter

New member
I always found Lao Che very interesting. Was he a higher-up in the Yakuza? (I read that somewhere, long ago) If so, I thought the Yakuza were only in Japan.
I wish his character could have been explored more. Either in a novel or comic. I'm not aware if it has.

With Che's money and influence; he could have made a GREAT rival for Indy. Hell, Che could just hire goons to do his dirty work for him.
His suave and arrogant personality would have been the perfect counterbalance to Indy's rough and tumble life.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
I always found Lao Che very interesting. Was he a higher-up in the Yakuza? (I read that somewhere, long ago) If so, I thought the Yakuza were only in Japan.
I wish his character could have been explored more. Either in a novel or comic. I'm not aware if it has.

With Che's money and influence; he could have made a GREAT rival for Indy. Hell, Che could just hire goons to do his dirty work for him.
His suave and arrogant personality would have been the perfect counterbalance to Indy's rough and tumble life.

Triads and Tongs are the gangs of China - and 1930s Shanghai was rife with them. Shanghai was as corrupt as Chicago, only much more violent! It's a great history to delve into.
 

The Drifter

New member
Montana Smith said:
Triads and Tongs are the gangs of China - and 1930s Shanghai was rife with them. Shanghai was as corrupt as Chicago, only much more violent! It's a great history to delve into.

Thanks for that bit of info. I'll definitely check it out.
I take it that Lao Che was part of the Triads or Tongs?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Thanks for that bit of info. I'll definitely check it out.
I take it that Lao Che was part of the Triads or Tongs?

I would think so.

I have a couple of really detailed books, entitled The Shanghai Green Gang: Politics and Organized Crime 1919-1937, and Policing Shanghai 1927-1937. I also have a reprint of an original 1930s guide book to the city.

Shanghai was one of the points where the British got a foothold and where they forced opium into China (against the will of the Chinese authorities), and it eventually split into areas controlled by the British, US, French and Chinese, each with their own police and laws. Throw White Russian emigres, Japanese aggression, opium, seedy clubs and underworld gangs into the mix and it was a city ripe for adventure.
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Thanks for that bit of info. I'll definitely check it out.
I take it that Lao Che was part of the Triads or Tongs?

"headed perhaps the largest criminal organization outside the Green Gang in the city of Shanghai" is the best you're getting out of me. :p

(WEG's Temple of Doom sourcebook and old Indy site (which copied WEG anyway)
 

Col. Detritch

New member
I would say other than Belloq (which was Indy's archrival IMO) Indy only faced three other rival opponents Mangnus Völler, Lao Che and Forrestal (who we can really only assume had some sort of rival relationship with Indy).

Out of them I think Magnus is the most interesting. He's the only one, who like Belloq, represented a shadowy Indy and I like that. And you've got to think of what kind of effects a relationship like Indy and Völler 's would have had on Indy later, when he started working for the OSS. Here he is working for his country, following orders but with a tendency to make things personal, while years earlier Magnus was doing the exact same for Nazi Germany and Indy labelled it as ?wrong?. Now, besides the obvious evils of the Nazi?s compared to the US government, Indy?s gotta think, how does this make me any better than Magnus? He was just a man using his talents to help his county and here I am contradicting myself and doing the same for my country (considering the fact it?s the same government that screwed him over with one of the greatest finds in history). That deepens the rivalry to a more subconscious moral level, which I find extremely captivating. Unlike the rest Belloq and Magnus are the only rivals who truly evolve Indy as a person! :hat:
 
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