Forbidden Eye
Well-known member
ResidentAlien said:
They were talking about Year One.
Harold Ramis Calls KOCS "A Disaster..."
- Thread starter IndyFan89
- Start date
They were talking about Year One.
ResidentAlien
Guest
Forbidden Eye said:They were talking about Year One.
Ah... I'm illiterate too!
Now all you who cross paths with me have some ammo! I skipped it, thankfully. Looked dreadful.
I've tried to find the "dissapointment" everyone's talking about on the internet, and I can't find it. This "nothing like the originals" talk is bull crap. I'm a die hard Indy fan and I was the complete opposite of disapointed. May 22, 2008 was one of the most enjoyable days of my life.Cole said:
Some people were dissapointed I guess, but there's nothing wrong with that. I just want them to know that some people can enjoy an Indy movie made 20 years after the last one, and not complain about nostalga.
Everything you said Cole reflects my opinion. If people liked the first 3 they're crazy if they don't like KotCS because they feel the same.
tambourineman
New member
I completely agree. Being disappointed, not thinking it was as good as the originals, these things I can understand. But being a big fan of the originals and hating Skull is something I cant really grasp. I really enjoyed the film, but
I can see its shortcomings, and agree with many of peoples complaints. But these are more than outweighed by the sheer joy of seeing Indy back, with Harrison as good as ever, and the good parts of the film far outweigh the bad imo.
I can see its shortcomings, and agree with many of peoples complaints. But these are more than outweighed by the sheer joy of seeing Indy back, with Harrison as good as ever, and the good parts of the film far outweigh the bad imo.
When Ramis talks about Skull being a disaster, he is referring, firstly, to the standard that the original sets and how sequels fall below that and, secondly, if you are going to bother making a movie, why not make it well, unless you know it's prequels will carry it through to box office success. Whether Ramis is guilty of this is another thing and, if he is, then he is only a hypocrite, but he is still right about Skull. I don't believe Lucas, Spielberg and Ford did it just for the money, but they have changed over time towards caution and safety. I do not hate Skull, but I think it could have been a lot better. I look forward to Indy5.
Gabeed
New member
tambourineman said:
I don't see how you can't see that people might have different opinions than you and have the ability to hate Skull while loving the originals. But I suppose I have just as hard of a time imagining people actually liking Skull, or especially, heaven forbid, saying that it's the best Indy movie of all.
Cole
New member
It's not so much that people have different opinions; it's the extremities of the opinions that is hard to take seriously.Gabeed said:I don't see how you can't see that people might have different opinions than you and have the ability to hate Skull while loving the originals. But I suppose I have just as hard of a time imagining people actually liking Skull, or especially, heaven forbid, saying that it's the best Indy movie of all.
If you really love Indiana Jones, I honestly don't see how you could "hate" Skull. Makes you sound like a whiney fanboy.
Chewbacca Jones
New member
Cole said:
One could also say that those who love CS because they love Indiana Jones sounds like mindless gushing by rabid fanboys. Liking something because it is related to something else you love is as senseless as hating something related to something else you love. What's good for the goose and all that...
(I love apples... I hate apple pie! Disturbing, but true.)
I have to admit, there are some who hate CS that seem to be unable to really justify it. They all point at the same short-comings, and for the most part those reasons are simply a matter of taste or simply small and forgivable glitches. As it turns out, I hate CS, but not for the same reasons as others. And I didn't start out feeling that way. I was a bit disappointed at first, but nothing extreme. However, the more times I see it, the less I like it. I have looked at the film and myself very honestly and I have found very legitimate reasons for my now rather strong dislike, even mild hate, for the film. My reasons are rational, but they won't change everybody's mind. But I rest easy knowing that I gave CS a fair chance. I tried to like it. I tried to find holes in my own dislike. I failed. I sit and hope Indy 5 will be better.
By the way, Resident Alien; I happen to really like Jedi, though not as much as Empire. I am very discerning when it comes to what movies I like; more so than most, though less than some.
However, I am perfectly capable of seeing why so many people hate it, and why you react to it so strongly. I would have to say, as Star Wars films go, "it's an acquired taste."
Sort of like spinach.
Gabeed
New member
Cole said:
But what does "whiny fanboy" even mean? Maybe many real Indy lovers of last year felt betrayed by how the movie turned out, and "mild disappointment" is not adequate in describing how they feel? If being a "true Indy fan" means I am obligated to at least kinda like all the Indy movies, then I suppose the true James Bond fan must acknowledge Moonraker and Live or Let Die as "movies with shortcomings, but overall decent."
I mean, I know just as well as Chewbacca Jones that there are some ridiculous nitpicks of KoTCS out there, but to label everyone who loved the original trilogy but not KoTCS as "crazy" shows some real close-mindedness. No wonder I see less and less of KoTCS critics on this forum, when they are being derided as not true Indy fans.
Oh, and I too gave Indy 4 a fair shake--3 times in the theater, each time a more desperate attempt to like it than the previous.
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Well, in response to the malnourished, prostrate before the beards, I think you're just seeing the natural cycle of things:Gabeed said:
First impressions/ honest emotions
Second chance/ dismissive, flippant
Serious dissection/ as objective as it gets
Staggering confoundedness/ enlightenment
Total aversion
Indifference
I think you're seeing indifference to closed minds and to those who would defend Crystal Skull as though you were criticizing Scientology.
(maybe they ARE Scientologists!)
Darth Vile
New member
Gabeed said:
I would posit that if you generally like most things ?James Bond?, then there is probably something to like in each and every Bond movie. For the record, I actually quite enjoy Live and Let Die. Bond?s lowest low (IMHO) was Die Another Day? and I think all four of the Indy movies are vastly superior to the movies that make up Bond?s low points. But of course it goes without saying that one shouldn?t feel obliged to like that which one does not...
Gabeed said:
Not wanting to tread on our fellow members toes? but I don?t think he was actually suggesting that if you ?love? the other Indy movies you should automatically ?love? KOTCS (although I stand to be corrected). I think that if one holds the other movies in high regard, then there certainly shouldn?t be anything that controversial to ones sensibilities, to elicit feelings of ?hate? for KOTCS. People get so emotive with these things that they often pick inappropriate speech to articulate feelings. There is nothing to truly ?hate? about KOTCS (although that doesn?t mean one has to like it).
Gabeed said:
That seems a bit of a sweeping generalization? which I don?t believe is wholly accurate. To be honest, the only forum members who seem to be ?derided?, are those who hold KOTCS in some form of high esteem. I think those who found KOTCS to be truly offensive have sensibly moved onto other things (why wouldn?t they?). Those who like it, or feel ambivalent, have stayed around to carry on the discussions.
Cole
New member
As Darth Vile insinuated........I'm not saying everyone has to LOVE 'Crystal Skull' to be a "true" Indiana Jones fan or something. I never said anything of the sort.Gabeed said:But what does "whiny fanboy" even mean? Maybe many real Indy lovers of last year felt betrayed by how the movie turned out, and "mild disappointment" is not adequate in describing how they feel? If being a "true Indy fan" means I am obligated to at least kinda like all the Indy movies, then I suppose the true James Bond fan must acknowledge Moonraker and Live or Let Die as "movies with shortcomings, but overall decent."
I mean, I know just as well as Chewbacca Jones that there are some ridiculous nitpicks of KoTCS out there, but to label everyone who loved the original trilogy but not KoTCS as "crazy" shows some real close-mindedness. No wonder I see less and less of KoTCS critics on this forum, when they are being derided as not true Indy fans.
Oh, and I too gave Indy 4 a fair shake--3 times in the theater, each time a more desperate attempt to like it than the previous.
I'm just saying that I find it incomprehensible that a "true" Indy fan wouldn't get at least SOME enjoyment out of 'Skull.'
Even I might say it's the "least" of the 4 films..........but I still thouroughly enjoy the movie.
To have such an extreme opinion such as "I hated it" or "It sucks"......like I said, impossible for me to take seriously.
ResidentAlien
Guest
Cole said:
That standpoint is impossible for ME to take seriously.
How self-righteous can you be?
"Even I like it, look at me!" Ah, bull****.
People have OPINIONS, and they're not any less valid just because YOU find them extreme. That very thing is in itself an opinion, and I think an extremist one at that. Who are you to decide what is extreme? Who made you the soul knower of all things neat and conservative? Who gave you that extreme authority?
Absolute bullocks.
The Stranger
Member
Cole said:
Well, you know... maybe you are right.
"True" fans might actually have liked the first five minutes of the film. I did.
Then, sadly, came the rest...
Cole said:
By the time of the Area 51 escape I was already so demoralized that I wanted to exit the theatre. REALLY.
Cole
New member
Cute rant.
People can be disappointed by it, I didn't say everyone has to love it - that's ridiculous........I'm just saying to me, there just comes a point when enough is enough.
If you hate the movie and CGI ruined it for you and this or that.......then fine. But what you are saying is falling on deaf ears here.
People can be disappointed by it, I didn't say everyone has to love it - that's ridiculous........I'm just saying to me, there just comes a point when enough is enough.
If you hate the movie and CGI ruined it for you and this or that.......then fine. But what you are saying is falling on deaf ears here.
ResidentAlien
Guest
Cole said:
Indeed. Or not deaf ears perhaps, just a brick wall.
You're so goddamn full of yourself, it's pathetic, really.
I never accused you of saying everyone had to like it. What I did knock you for, however, was saying it was beyond the pale, beyond any reasonable thought that someone could hate the film. And that, you see, is ****ing stupid, and self-righteous, and frankly childish.
Nor did I ever say the CGI ruined it for me, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.
The CGI is the least of the film's problems, what with its completely incompetent plotting and non-existent character development.
That's right RA. It's what they didn't do (plot and character development) that hurt it more than what they did do (CG). The movie had very little in the way of surprises or suspense. There was so little threat in it that I felt underwhelmed by the time I left the theatre.
Chewbacca Jones
New member
Mickiana said:
Give the man his prize! He's nailed it!
Cole; I don't think anyone here expects to change your opinion of the movie. We just find it a little (ok, a LOT) self-absorbed of you to believe that those who are not of like mind and feelings can't be taken seriously. You need to be open to the concept that not all things make rational sense. Such is the way of feelings, extreme or otherwise.
And I have to be honest, while there are a few moments I liked, and some ideas that had merit, I did not find CS "thoroughly enjoyable" by any measure. I found it mildly amusing at times, but not enough to dull the fact that I had to endure so much mediocrity... and worse.
Darth Vile
New member
Chewbacca Jones said:
And that swings both ways... There seems to be a lot more anti KOTCS sentiment on these boards than there is praise and awe (and I'm not talking "anti KOTCS sentiment" of the constructive/objective kind)... And considering that (from the polls here) the majority of forum members actually liked the movie, the ratio of those willing to vent their spleen seems somewhat incongruous.