Military Insignia in the Indiana Jones films

Kooshmeister

New member
P Tom said:
^ I knew I had heard about the ammo pouch mismatch from somewhere, probably from the customizing Indy figures thread.

The German Soldier figure released by Hasbro had corrected for the ammo pouch!

Indy-199.jpg

However, this figure is inaccurate in the sense that the all-tan uniformed soldiers in the movie didn't wear tunics that extended below their belts like that.

Speaking of which, why are some of the soldiers wearing tan shirts and others wearing green tunics? I had initially thought they were all dressed identically but that the tan-shirted guys had just taken their green jackets off, until someone pointed out the green-tunic wearing dudes obviously have on white undershirts underneath the tunics. So I can't think of why some have tan shirts and others green tunics.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Kooshmeister said:
However, this figure is inaccurate in the sense that the all-tan uniformed soldiers in the movie didn't wear tunics that extended below their belts like that.

Speaking of which, why are some of the soldiers wearing tan shirts and others wearing green tunics? I had initially thought they were all dressed identically but that the tan-shirted guys had just taken their green jackets off, until someone pointed out the green-tunic wearing dudes obviously have on white undershirts underneath the tunics. So I can't think of why some have tan shirts and others green tunics.

Early Afrika Korps units were issued with mid-olive colour tropical uniforms. Later issue, especially for the Luftwaffe, Kreigsmarine and SS, was more tan in colour. The olive also faded towards tan, making a variety of shades possible.

The following quote is specifically about unforms designed for DAK Heer units:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/101-200/tnt162-Dak-uniform-Marshman/00.shtm

Looking at basics first, the Afrika Korps issue uniforms were not tan! They were a medium olive cotton twill material, tunic, trousers, shirts, ties, and caps. Now, due to the weather conditions in North Africa and southern Italy, these uniforms did fade to a pale tannish color, but it still retained just a touch of the olive tint. In the case of the famous ?Afrika Korps? cap, the normal headwear of the troops when not wearing the steel helmet, this pale color was considered ?salty?, and as such, much desired. The troops would actually bleach these caps out using their anti-gas tablets.

Getting to the insignia worn on the tropical uniform, we?ll start with the ubiquitous cap. First, the turnup around the lower portion of the cap, was a simulated turnup, and did not fold down, as did the continental M-43 cap. It had no buttons in the front. The eagle worn at the front of the crown was medium blue gray embroidered on a copperish brown background. On the front of the ?turnup? was the cockade of the German national colors. Black outside ring white inside, with a red center. In most cases, an inverted Vee of the branch of service color (waffenfarbe) would extend from the visor edge, to the top of the turnup, with the cockade centered inside. In Africa, there was very little ground pounder infantry, thus a white Vee would be rare. Most infantry was mechanized, and wore grass green waffenfarben. Artillery would be red, panzer pink, signals lemon yellow, and mechanized cavalry golden yellow. The last DAK cap I owned was light blue, for transport troops. Medical would b e cornflower blue, propaganda troops medium gray, and chaplains violet. The cap worn by officers was basically the same as that worn by the troops, with the exception of aluminum piping around the crown (gold for general officers). I know I spent quite a lot of time with something as basic as the tropical cap, but it was a distinguishing and popular item, and the waffenfarben information applies elsewhere as well. German troops could and did wear a cap similar to the above item, but without the visor. Insignia would be the same. Although quite practical,, this cap did not enjoy same popularity as the visored field cap.

Now, let?s look at the jacket. This was a skirted affair, quite similar to the regular German uniform, in that it had patch pockets with flaps and pleats on both the breast and skirt. It was open lapelled, but I have seen an Oberleutnant?s tunic that had the same rise and fall collar of the continental tunic. The buttons were painted olive, but of course much of that would wear off in use, exposing the aluminum of which they were made. In the rear, at waist level, were two removable hooks, that supported the belt. (These were also present on continental uniforms, so when you see movies where the holster or bayonet is dragging the belt down, you know the costume dept. failed to complete their homework.) Getting to the insignia, starting at the top, the collar tabs were medium blue gray on a copper colored background, as was the breast eagle.

The shoulder straps could be uniform color, or in some cases a medium brown. Naturally, they were bordered with waffenfarben depicting the arm of service of the wearer. No, the waffenbarben did not extend across the seam at the shoulder. For NCOs , the shoulder strap would be surrounded with copper brown colored tresse, as would the collar. In the case of officers, the shoulder straps were worked on a base of the waffenfarben color, pretty much as worn on the continent. Officers could elect to wear continental style officer?s collar tabs, and even the silver (gold for generals) on green European styled breast eagle. General?s buttons by the way, were in a golden color. A man?s basic medals were worn on this uniform, just as they were on the continent. Around the right sleeve of the Afrika Korps troops and officers, was an olive green cuff title, with the words ?Afrika Korps? embroidered in pale gray or white. As an aside, on the left sleeve if you see an olive cuff title lettered ?Afrika? with palm trees at either end, and a dull silver border top and bottom, this was a theater decoration, and was awarded for length of service in Africa. This was a universal decoration, and could be awarded to other than DAK troops, also Luftwaffe personnel, and etc. Should Kriegsmarine personnel serve the appropriate amount of time in Africa, they also would be eligible. As a decoration, this title was worn on the left sleeve, just above the cuff.

The issue trousers were almost a semi riding breeches style, made of the self same color material as the tunic. There were also quite baggy pants issued to be worn with shoes lower than the standard tropical boots, which were never in sufficient supply.

The issue boots were made of a non desiccating denim like material, and laced up the front almost to the knee. The toe and heel caps were medium brown leather while the denim portions were the same olive color as the uniform. As mentioned, lower quarter brogan style shoes were issued, and quite a few later arriving troops found themselves wearing continental issue jack boots.

The uniform belt was cotton webbing, with a buckle styled the same as the regular ?Gott Mitt Uns? (God with us) item of the continental German soldier, but painted olive. Later arrivals often found themselves wearing that self same continental leather belt, due to shortage of supplies, which was a chronic Africa problem. As mentioned above, the shirt and tie (when worn) were the same basic olive color as the tunic. Such accoutrements as the ?Y? straps infantry harness were also made of the same cotton webbing material, as were such items as the bayonet frog, and the straps surrounding the water bottle, gas mask tin, and etc.
 

dr.jones1986

Active member
I have noticed that some German soldiers seem to be wearing green and others tan uniforms in Raiders. The uniforms of the German soldiers in the desert in both Raiders and Crusade seem to be similar to the Afrika Korp (in TLC you even get a glimpse of the Afrika Korp symbol on the back of the truck Marcus is kidnapped in). Did Germany even have a uniform such as this in the 1930's prior to the creation of the Afrika Korp and the North African/Mediterranean?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
dr.jones1986 said:
I have noticed that some German soldiers seem to be wearing green and others tan uniforms in Raiders. The uniforms of the German soldiers in the desert in both Raiders and Crusade seem to be similar to the Afrika Korp (in TLC you even get a glimpse of the Afrika Korp symbol on the back of the truck Marcus is kidnapped in). Did Germany even have a uniform such as this in the 1930's prior to the creation of the Afrika Korp and the North African/Mediterranean?

Prior to the DAK uniform, which dates from 1940, there were Colonial uniforms.

http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/

There was also the German Condor Legion, sent to assist Franco:

1225576687_131el1.jpg


http://mirageswar.com/2008/11/01/print:page,1,osprey_elite_131__the_condor_legion.html

Some good pictures here of the Legion:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...onalist-victory-parade-May-1939-Life-Magazine
 
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WilliamBoyd8

Active member
015.jpg


I was a Cub Scout in 1958.

Our troop visited a Nike Anti-Aircraft base in the Berkeley (California) hills.

The soldiers who guided us around the base wore these kind of uniforms,
and I remember the flat-top caps that they wore.

Being a naive 8-year old kid, I thought that they were going to launch a missile for us.

:)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Toht's only insignia is his Golden Party Badge:

229.jpg


By rights this should be the smaller (25mm) version of the badge, which was intended for civilian wear. The larger (30.5mm) version was specificially for wear on a uniform.


ORIGINS

The Golden Party Badge of the NSDAP was authorized by a Hitler decree of October 13, 1933 to honor those Party Members who, as of November 9, 1933, had a registered membership number under 100,000 - provided their party membership had been active and uninterrupted since the NSDAP's re-founding on February 17, 1925. In fact, the NSDAP had already exceeded membership number 100,000 by December, 1928 (although only about 55,000 had remained with the Party - the rest dropped out for various reasons, including the inability to pay dues during the depression). On November 9, 1933 the Treasury Department of the NSDAP certified only 22,282 of the first 100,000 NSDAP members eligible for the badge. This included 1,795 women.

The first awards were made November 9, 1933, on the 10th anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch. Award documents show awards were frequently presented on significant dates in the Nazi calendar - Nov. 9, Jan. 30, April 20, etc., as well as throughout the year.

Since people were anxious to get this prestigious award, the bulk of the numbered Golden Party Badges were presented in 1933 and 1934, with relatively few additional ones after that date. This accounts for the consistency in quality of the badges.

A handful of numbered badges were awarded after the initial qualification date. Because the Gold Party Badge was the symbol of the new elite of Nazi Germany - and carried with it certain privileges - there was a rash of people who had held NSDAP membership numbers under 100,000, but had left the Party before 1930. Often they rejoined, but entering the NSDAP with a higher number that did not entitle them to the Gold Party Badge. These people frequently petitioned to have their old party number reinstated, entitling them to the Gold Party Badge, explaining why they left the Party. They often enlisted the help of senior Nazis to lobby on their behalf for their old or a replacement low number.

SPECIAL AWARDS BY HITLER

Hitler reserved the right to award the badge for special recognition of service to the Party or State, and used it politically to bring people into the NSDAP who had otherwise resisted or refused to join. These awards usually took place on the 30th of January of each year to anyone who had demonstrated outstanding service to the Party or State.

Although it was essentially the same badge, it was referred to as the Goldene Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP, or Golden Honor Award of the NSDAP, instead of the "Golden Party Badge". It appears the first honour award was given out in 1935 and continued until 1944. Klaus Patzwall in his book "Das Goldene Parteiabzeichen" (Verlag Klaus D. Patzwall: 2004) counts about 900 awards of this badge, and provides a list of the recipients. You can read more about the Honor Award version here.

LOOKING UP NUMBERS

A breakdown of the original 22,282 Gold Party Badge awards can be found in the publication "NSDAP Partei-Statistik 1935," Vol. 1 published by the Zentralverlag of the NSDAP in 1936, and includes an exact breakdown of the Golden Party Badges awarded by location, percentile, sex, etc. Sadly it does not break it down by name. As far as can be told, there is no complete listing of holders of the Golden Party Badge, although the "SS Dienstaltersliste" lists several thousand members of the SS who were holders of the Golden Party Badge and gives their corresponding NSDAP membership numbers. Complete membership lists of the NSDAP (some 8+ million NSDAP membership records) can be accessed at the Berlin Document Center and several archives in the United States. It is not, however, easy work.

WEARING THE GOLDEN PARTY BADGE

By decree the Golden Party Badge outranked most awards of the Third Reich, including the Iron Cross and was to be worn above or beside this prestigious military decoration. As a Party award, it ranked only below the Blood Order, and later the German Order, whcih incorporated the Fuess Gold Party Badge in the center. It was formally recognized as one of the 10 "Honor Badges" of the NSDAP in a Hitler Decree of November 6, 1936.

Regulations required it to be worn on the left pocket of a military style tunic below the flap. It was worn above the Iron Cross first class and any other military badges or decorations. Contrary to regulations, there are numerous photographs of it being worn on the pocket flap itself, mostly by military leaders such as "Sepp" Dietrich and General Keitel.

When in the "traditional" NSDAP brownshirt uniform without a tunic, it was to be worn on the tie in line with the pocket buttons on either side, although it was also often worn on the pocket.

No other party pin was supposed to be worn when wearing the Golden Party Badge, although in full dress some SS, SA and NSDAP officers were known to wear the large Gold Party Badge on the pocket and a regular party membership pin on the tie.

When worn on civilian attire, the small Golden Party Badge was to be worn on the lapel of the jacket or blouse.

For some unknown reason, Hitler did not start wearing his own Golden Party Badge until some time in 1936 - well after the first awards.

http://pages.interlog.com/~sjl/GPB/index.html
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Anyone catch the rank of the Sailor in the rickshaw?!!:p

Don't think he turns round to show any rank insignia. :)

I've been looking at VP's Raiders screen capture album and have spotted a few things.

Firstly, this photo of Dietrich and Gobler:

569.jpg


The belt buckles are of this Heer Enlisted Man and NCO design:

EnlistedManandNCObeltbuckle.jpg


The belts are Afrika Korps khaki, but the buckles aren't camouflage painted like this original example:

DAKEnlistedBeltBuckleSetCU.jpg


DAKEnlistedBeltBuckleSetF.jpg


Both officers have chosen to dress down, as if to show their camaraderie with their kameraden, as they could have worn the Afrika Korps officer buckle:

DAKOfficerBeltBuckleSetCU.jpg


DAKOfficerBeltBuckleSetF.jpg


Or this open work officer buckle:

armyOfficerBeltBucklew.jpg
 

Montana Smith

Active member
A variety of Waffenfarben

I understand now that the Afrika Korps used many colours on their shoulder boards, and were not just limited to Infanterie white.

As with other Heer and SS units, the Afrika Korps utilized the colour system denoting their specific arm of service.

The book AfrikaKorps by Robert Kurtz states that white waffenfarbe was very rare in the early days of DAK.

The caption to a photo of an officer's cap on page 122 reads:

"the waffenfarbe is white, which is an exceptionally rare soutache colour from the early days of the Afrika Korps-it was only used by the Heers-Fla.Bataillone which were very few in number in africa."

So, without further ado...

This soldier looks like he has the red shoulder board for the Artillerie:

545.jpg


Both of these have white Infanterie (or anti-aircraft) shoulder boards:

1036.jpg


This shot is more interesting:

1110.jpg


The soldier on the right has the NCO tress of an Unteroffizier, while the Leutnant on the left has blue shoulder boards. It's not easy to tell the exact shade of blue, but it appears brighter than that of the Medical branch. It looks more like these straps for a Leutnant of the Truppensonderdienst (Special Troop Services):

Administrative.jpg


The TSD was an Administrative role created in 1944.

And now for the Mechanic. It's been suggested that his shoulder straps are the orange of the Feldgendarmerie (Field Police). However, in this photo they look much more yellow, which would place him in the Kavallerie:

770.jpg
 

Montana Smith

Active member
For comparison, here are some Kavallerie golden yellow shoulder straps and collar tabs:

Cavalery.jpg


H021760full1.jpg


And the much more orange Feldgendarmerie collar tabs:

H113962full1.jpg
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Anyone catch the rank of the Sailor in the rickshaw?!!:p
Good question, Rocket, but as Montana noted, it doesn't look like the sailor is wearing any insignia at all.
Montana Smith said:
This soldier looks like he has the red shoulder board for the Artillerie:
You beat me to it, Smiffy! Yes, his piping is Artillery red.
Montana Smith said:
And now for the Mechanic. It's been suggested that his shoulder straps are the orange of the Feldgendarmerie (Field Police). However, in this photo they look much more yellow, which would place him in the Kavallerie:
I suggested orange/Field Police in the thread about Gobler but you *may* be onto something with the golden yellow. That said, I'm still not convinced.
 

P Tom

Member
General Ross' badges

In KOTCS, General Ross wears quite a number of badges around his uniform, especially his awards and decorations. Here's my attempt to analyse them all!

094.jpg


I'll start from a view on General Ross' right:
genross-12.png

A = Robert Ross is a two-star General, which gives him the rank of Major-General.
B = His former overseas wartime unit is the 4th Infantry Division.
C = The medal for Distinguished Unit Citation, referred to as the Presidential Unit Citation since 1966.
D = Army Staff Identification Badge. Back in 1957 it was called "Army General Staff Identification Badge".
E = General Ross has 8 overseas service bars on the lower right sleeve, which translates to 4 years of overseas service since each bar represents 6 months.

Now we go to the view of General Ross' left:
genross-2.png

The badge on the left breast pocket is the "Office of the Secretary of Defense Identification Badge", but again back in 1957 it was called the "Department of Defense Identification Badge."
Wearing it shows that Ross is currently or had once been assigned to the DoD.
Unfortunately I have not been able to identify the current unit General Ross belongs to. For a while I thought that it was the insignia for the West Virginia National Guards, but on closer inspection the logo and colors simply didn't match up.

Insignia for the West Virginia National Guards
wv_nat_guard.jpg


Here's my rough sketch of what I think the unit insignia looks like:
genross-3.png
 

P Tom

Member
General Ross' ribbons

Now we go to General Ross' awards and decorations:
ross-1a.jpg


With reference to the promotional shot of General Ross, as well as zooming in on the KOTCS screencap, I have duplicated the ribbons below.
(With thanks to Wikipedia for the ribbon illustrations and info)
genross-4.png


(1) = 2nd Combat Infantry Badge. Implies that Ross had fought in two wars - WW2 and the Korean War
(2) = Distinguished Service Medal
(3) = Silver Star with one oak leaf cluster
(4) = Legion of Merit
(5) = Bronze Star with Valor device
(6) = Purple Heart with one oak leaf cluster
(7) = Army Commendation Medal
(8) = American Defense Service Medal
(9) = American Campaign Medal
(10) = European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal
(11) = World War II Victory Medal
(12) = Army of Occupation Medal
(13) = National Defense Service Medal
(14) = Korean Service Medal with at least 2 service stars, since the star in the promo shot is off-centered
(15) = United Nations Service Medal, which was later renamed "United Nations Service Medal Korea" in 1961

(14) & (15) imply that General Ross participated in the Korean War 1951-1953.

The oak leaf clusters and service stars denote multiple bestowal of the same award, with a silver star issued in lieu of five bronze stars. Same for the oak leaf clusters.
I could not tell the colors of the oak leaf clusters or the service stars from the promo shot.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
P Tom said:
In KOTCS, General Ross wears quite a number of badges around his uniform, especially his awards and decorations. Here's my attempt to analyse them all!
OUTSTANDING & EXCELLENT work, Mr. P Tom!(y) I especially like your duplication of Ross' ribbon bars and great spot on the Korean War details. Thank you very much for your research and contributions! Way to go.:hat:
P Tom said:
The "A" badge on the left shoulders is the insignia of the Fifteenth US Army, which was deactivated in 1946, well before the 1957 setting of KOTCS.
Very interesting, P Tom. Older uniforms would have been easier for the Russians to get a hold of than current (1957) ones. Maybe one of their agents went shopping at an army surplus store. Heh heh. ("I vould like to buy two dozen Amerikan uniformz, two dozen capz and two dozen pairz of bootz. All for big coztume party.")

Not much is known about characters like General Ross, Captain Blumburtt, etc. so analyzing their insignia tells us more about them and their history. (Which is why threads such as this are so nice to have. Who do we have to thank? Ourselves -The FANS!)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Great posts, P Tom!

P Tom said:
It's real fun learning new stuff when doing this type of Indy-related research.

This is what I'm finding, as well. The research leads to all sorts of detailed information I hadn't considered before.


VP's captures of Vogel reminded me that I'd overlooked the Iron Cross 1st Class fastened to his left breast pocket.

732.jpg


The setting being 1938, this would be a 1914 Iron Cross. The First Class (Das Eiserne Kreuz 1. Klasse) was awarded to a soldier distinguishing themself three or more times than required for the Second Class award, which was a single act of bravery in the face of the enemy, or actions that were clearly above and beyond the call of duty.

Whereas the 2nd Class was a double-sided medal issued with a ribbon (and the ribbon was the only part displayed on the uniform in normal circumstances), the 1st Class was a single-sided medal issued without a ribbon.

As it happens I received a replica 1914 1st Class Iron Cross today. It's of the convex type (the arms are curved backwards) with a screw-back instead of a hinged pin and catch. The screw-back was avaialble as a private purchase by the recipient, and was favoured by combat troops as it provided a more secure method of fastening to the tunic.

100_0311.jpg


100_0313.jpg
 
I'll let you guys kill this one...

RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
Nazi German Jacket



From the first classic Indiana Jones movie comes this Nazi German Jacket costume.

Sourced from the Costumiers on the film, the large sized Jacket still retains the original insignia to the chest but lacks the shoulder epaulettes, although evidence of their presence remains. The lapel insignia may have been revised subsequent to filming (it is commonplace for costume insignia to be removed/reused/replaced during the life of a costume within the Costumiers).

Such costumes can be seen in various scenes throughout the movie as Indy battles with the Nazis in the quest for the Ark.

Indiana Jones pieces remain some of the most sought after pieces in the hobby and costumes featured in Raiders are virtually impossible to source.

It is also probable that the Jacket was reused for use in Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.

Not yet up to snuff to contribute here, other than a little game: What's wrong with this picture?

raiders%20nazi%20bigjacket1.jpg


I really do love this thread...thanks again guys!
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
Nazi German Jacket





Not yet up to snuff to contribute here, other than a little game: What's wrong with this picture?

He has no face?

Rocket Surgeon said:
I really do love this thread...thanks again guys!

Nah, I'm only being an idiot so as to echo Rocket: this thread is great, and I wish that I had some means of contributing. But know that I'm a reader.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
More from The Last Crusade...

This guy looks to be the most senior officer under Vogel:

603.jpg


His collar tabs indicate that he's an SS-Sturmbannführer (Major).

Sturmbannfuehrercollartabs.png


He also has the Leibstandarte SS 'Adolf Hitler' cuff title. His only award is the 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class, as shown by the black and white ribbon fastened to his second tunic button.

The actor (Luke Hanson) is credited as 'Principal SS Officer at Castle' on imdb.com.

The female officer, who appears to be in charge of the communications room at Brunwald, is an SS-Obersturmführer (Senior Lieutenant).

750.jpg


Obersturmfuehrercollartabs.png
 
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