"I did what I did..."

Strider

New member
Pan Rado said:
About the age difference comments: it's a pulp adventure universe, and despite all the violence, a light hearted one (i mean, could you get over Indy killing all those nazis in cold blood during the Brunwald sequence in Last Crusade if it wasn't shown in such a cherry, comic way?). Indy and Marion didn't have to make sex (or even kiss for that matter) to a) **** off Abner and b) still make the main players consider their earlier relationship a significant one. Especially in young, inexperienced Marion's mind.

I think your makeing Abner sound kind of strict, he seemed pretty easy going to me. I don't think he would really get to angry unless there was err... sexual contact.
 

LaoChe

New member
I imagine the scenario went something like this:

Abner trusted Indy to go somewhere to lead his own dig in Abners stead. Maybe Abner had to go meet a guy about an amulet... doesn't matter. Thing is, Abner asks Indy to take Marion with him and Abner will meet them at the dig site.

Indy leads the dig, things go extremely well, maybe Indy uncovers something extraordinary at the dig that demands a champagne celebration. CUT TO: love scene in Indy's tent (you knew what you were doing)

Abner arrives at the dig, is extremely proud of Indy. Somebody breaks the news to Abner about the fling.

Indy receives a note to meet Abner in his tent/office/HQ.

Abner unloads on Indy about trust, honesty, dignity and virtue. He swipes his desk knocking everything off. "I TRUSTED YOU, JONES!!"

Abner makes Indy agree to leave and never come back. Indy leaves in the middle of the night. Marion doesn't see him again until 1936. (I was a child, I was in love. IT WAS WRONG AND YOU KNEW IT!)

That's pretty much the way i see it...

EDIT - cheez Finn, you're butsin' me on ALL my slips...
 
Last edited:

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
LaoChe said:
*cough*<i>1936</i>*cough*

Marion made the move on Indy, and Indy gave in. Abner blamed it all on Jones because as the elder and smarter one, he should have said no to a girl who was foolishly blinded by a crush, and thus lets her daughter out scotsfree. Indy takes this as a blame (and insult) too hard... and it breaks their relations. As we hear Brody and Indy to discuss it in Raiders... it can't be nothing but serious, since now Indy blames himself too. He should have been strong enough to say no.

...this is what the movie indicates to me. Don't know what the scriptwriter had in mind, then. P'haps he left open an option for a <i>direct</i> sequel, due the unanswered questions... and even more significantly, the fate of the Ark. <small>That has, however become the most famous ending place for the hunted artefact in the adventure movie history. We don't need to know what happened to the Ark then. If we did or would, all the magic would be gone.</small>
 
Last edited:

Indyologist

Well-known member
the hammer42 said:
From what I read he slept with her, got into a fight about that with Abner. He told Indy to get out without saying goodby to Marion. So Indy left and came back fifteen years later.
She was heart broken.

There is a great story there.
I hope they will write a book about that.

Where did you read this? Please cite your sources.
 

the hammer42

New member
I read it in the novel of the raiders of the lost ark and in one more Indy novel. I cant remember wich one.
And I said 15 years but you guys are right. It was 10 years.
My bad.
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
I figure the person of Abner to be like Indy...I get this from LC, the character of "Fedora" was "Abner" up until the last draft of the script.
 

LaoChe

New member
Aaron H said:
I figure the person of Abner to be like Indy...I get this from LC, the character of "Fedora" was "Abner" up until the last draft of the script.

Whoa!! Aaron, you just, very delicately, DROPPED A BOMB!!!

And when I think about it, yeah, Abner was definately an Indiana Jones himself. In fact, he could have been the 'dark side of Jones' one that Indy does NOT want to be like.

You know, when I think about it... Is it ever actually mentioned specifically that the 'falling out' had to do with Indy's relationship with Marion?

Or could they be two different things. Because if they are two things unrelated, then maybe Indy's falling out with Abner was a disaggreement about right and wrong. Maybe Abner was a bit of a villain...

Would make sense that he ran off to Nepal to hide... The government had to find personal aquantances to find him.
 

Ayrun

Moderator Emeritus
Hmm? I don't know. Never really pictured Abner like a 'villain' kind of type.
But then again.. I never knew he'd be something like 'Fedora'.
I always pictured him as a Sallah type of guy. An own mind, good at what he does and protective of his children.
I did and still assume btw that the falling out had to do with Indy's relationship with Marion? as they said;
Marion: "You know, he loved you like a son. Took a hell of a lot for you to alienate him."
Indiana: "Not much, just you."
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
...of course, to everybody who've read this board it was no news that the character of Fedora was supposed to be Abner Ravenwood.

Some still like to think that way, like me. It would make great sense, and introduce one of Raiders' key characters who never even visited the screen. As we can see in LC's prologue it was the character of Fedora who sent Indy down the road to become that man he was to become.

And is that actually alienating the character of Ravenwood if we see him hunting some sort of relic for a greedy private collector and criminal? After all, keep in mind what Dr. Jones himself was doing in the beginning of ToD...
 

Ayrun

Moderator Emeritus
Finn said:
...of course, to everybody who've read this board it was no news that the character of Fedora was supposed to be Abner Ravenwood.

Thx? but I didn't know, never stumbled upon it.

Finn said:
And is that actually alienating the character of Ravenwood if we see him hunting some sort of relic for a greedy private collector and criminal? After all, keep in mind what Dr. Jones himself was doing in the beginning of ToD...

No, I don't think it would matter at all if Abner would be like that, actually.
I only said I always had a sort of 'friendlier' guy in mind. That's all.
 

Indyologist

Well-known member
What did Indy do? He stupidly seduced a girl that should have known better to stay away from Indy. But like a lot of young girls, she didn't and got her heart broken when Indy went splitsville. I think. I have my theories.

Just do a search under "Marion Ravenwood" here and you'll have a veritable treasure trove of Indy/Marion conspiracy theories!
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
<small>
Indyologist said:
Just do a search under "Marion Ravenwood" here and you'll have a veritable treasure trove of Indy/Marion conspiracy theories!
Nix. They had a Total Recall on Sam, remember?

...yeah, I never get bored to yap about that.</small>
 

Pan Rado

New member
On the topic of Abner... I don't know. I mean, they changed his name for a reason in the final draft (let alone a movie itself). Even though I consider fedora a good guy, he was just TOO much of a rogue, selling artifacts and all. I mean, would Indy really had a son-father relationship with someone who does NOT think that "(it) belongs in the museum"?

Also, if Indiana was "like a son" to Abner, wouldn't they team up to retrieve the Cross of Coronado? After all, Jones was searching for it "all his life" - are we supposed to believe he found out about its whereabouts only AFTER Abner's death?

I'm way off topic as it is, but what the hell. As for the artifact dealing in ToD - first of all, I'm pretty sure Indy needed the diamond for noble purposes (the novelisation even goes as far as saying that 'the university' was after it). Also, there is no way Henry wouldn't have a plan of getting Nurchachi back. BTW, what hapenned to Nurchachi after the shootout?

... and was it the actual urn with remains of Nurchachi... or a fake? ;)
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
One of the things that negates the Abner/Fedora connection for me is the fact that Abner was a professor at UofC. He is one of the worlds foremeost authorities on the Lost Ark. Why would such a character "steal" artifacts in the American Southwest.

Frankly, it's beneath him.
 
Last edited:

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
Why would a respected Doctor go into a South American jungle to get an idol? Same reason Abner would have: money.
Panama Hat was paying Abner/Fedora well, as would have Marcus if Indy had in fact retrieved the idol.

Point of this being is that Abner, while greatly respected, did live a double life (like Indy) that was quite shadowy at times.
 

Indyologist

Well-known member
Renderking Fisk said:
They mystery of what happened is greater then actually knowing... because your mind fills in the blanks and it's actually worse then what ever they could have come up with.

I think the worst thing that we can imagine Indy doing is getting Marion pregnant and saying he doesn't care... go get an abortion. So she does and hates him for it. I can't imagine Indy EVER doing something like that, but that would certainly account for Marion saying in Raiders:

"Do you know what you did to me-- to my life?"

Have an abortion would certainly ruin my young adulthood. :(
 

Indyologist

Well-known member
Ayrun said:
Well? Indy's conversation with Brody before he went to Nepal? Indy's conversation with Marion in Nepal? I don't know.. Seems they're taking it rather serious for something that was mostly in "young, inexperienced Marion's mind".

Yeah, Ayrun, I 'm also under the impression that it was something far more serioius than a doomed romance...
 
Top