Matt deMille
New member
It is indeed a great movie! My puzzlement is at why Spielberg seems to like to distance himself from it. It's like he's not proud of it, when, as a film-maker, he should be damn proud! Temple of Doom rocks!
Why does everyone hate Temple Of Doom?
- Thread starter mrbender
- Start date
Darth Vile
New member
Matt deMille said:
Not really... I think you are assuming that one can be totally objective when, even for the artist involved (be it movie maker,painter, musician), it's largely subjective. You can have more emotional attachment to something that may be perceived as inferior (by whatever measure one uses) whilst feeling fairly cold/distant to something that may be held in high regard by others. It's a largely emotional response rather than an intellectual one, but that's really why tastes/views differ from one person to the next (as evidenced within this thread alone). Of course neither position (the emotional or intellectual) is mutually exclusive.
EgyptianPharaoh
Guest
Its one of my favs too!Willie said:I really like ToD. It's my favorite of all the Indiana Jones films. I was watching it this evening and enjoyed it from start to finish. I really had to chuckle at the scene where Willie has changed out of her torn dress into Indy's shirt and pants and is riding on the back of the elephant and then the elephant throws her off and she says "I can't go to Pankot! I'm a "singer!" very, very funny!
fenris
New member
I never thought fans "hated" TOD... It was just trumped by ROTLA and LC in terms of story and popularity. Yes, ToD was darker than the other 2 films but it still was a nice film.
When I think of fans "hating" an Indy film, I think KOTCS. Hehehe... But I liked KOTCS despite the refrigerator escape, vine swinging and CGI ants. Who knows? Perhaps the 5th one will be better.
When I think of fans "hating" an Indy film, I think KOTCS. Hehehe... But I liked KOTCS despite the refrigerator escape, vine swinging and CGI ants. Who knows? Perhaps the 5th one will be better.
Darth Vile
New member
fenris said:
I'd be wary of anyone who says that they "hate" a movie. I think TOD is the weakest Indy movie, but I still like it.
Montana Smith
Active member
Darth Vile said:I'd be wary of anyone who says that they "hate" a movie. I think TOD is the weakest Indy movie, but I still like it.
Well put, Darth. I always think there's at least something in a film worthy of merit, and the word "hate" doesn't really do justice even to films I dislike.
I'm much more inclined to use the word "hate" in reference to certain pieces of music. Films are a more complicated media to describe.
featofstrength
Member
i dunno...putting my love for Sean Connery aside, I still feel Last Crusade to be the weakest
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
It's all a matter of taste.featofstrength said:
Although the creators continually redefine things an original comment I can relate to equates Raiders with a Sergio Leone western.
Another quote mentions all the chances they take with mood swings in Temple, and ultimately it's a cartoon.
Crusade is more like a buddy movie, two compatible yet not...a father and son story.
Skull for lack of a better word is a parody of them all...
It just reflects on the type of person you are regarding which one you like the best/least.
To tie it all in with the topic, that leap from Spaghetti Western to Cartoon is likely enough to illicit some hatred, but that we all still like Indy, it's testament to the draw of the character created in Raiders.
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
The spaghetti western description (noted in the the original story conference transcripts) is very apt. The spaghetti western wasn't intended to be an historical depcition of the American West, but rather an Italian re-invention of a myth for an Italian audience. Likewise, Raiders was a case of syle over history. I love both the pulp and the spaghetti styles, and to enjoy them at their best you have to understand that they stretch reality (this is particularly evident in Robert Rodriguez's El Mariachi, Desperado and Once Upon A Time in Mexico, which take the style and run with it, verging on cartoon impossibility). That was the path they took with Indy, the style slips easily (far too easily by 2008!) towards a live-action cartoon.
But, this is worth repeating:
Rocket Surgeon said:
Indy's the one constant element. The man in the hat in KOTCS is unmistakably Indy, regardless of everything else that was permitted to happen around him.
No Ticket
New member
No doubt it's not as good as Raiders, but IMHO I think it's pretty great in it's own way. Very different from the other Indy films. I like the chaotic "mean spirited" theme of the movie. I like that Indy seemingly gets thrown into hell, that it shows he has a darker side. I like how different it is.
I personally don't dislike TOD, I actually favor it more for centimental reasons than the others. It was my FIRST Indy movie. I was 7 years old and I had my tonsils removed and my Grandma was watching me while my mom and dad were working, (think they were in the tobacco barn..not sure), anyway my Grandma picked up the movie at the video store and brought it to the house for me to watch.
Me and her sat down and started watching this movie and I was instantly taken in by the adventure and the history behind everything. I was hooked from then on. After that day, she found Raiders and we watched it. Once again I was engulfed by the adventure and the history behind the films. Me and her actually had a Bible discussion about the Ark after watching Raiders.
I credit my Grandma for getting me into Indiana Jones. I probably would've got there anyway with my love for history and archaeology, but for a 7 year old to be swept up in the adventure and fantasy of it, made it even better! So on that November day in 1987, Indy Byrd was born and started a 23 year old love affair with history and archaeology, all thanks to my late Grandma (I miss you!!)
Me and her sat down and started watching this movie and I was instantly taken in by the adventure and the history behind everything. I was hooked from then on. After that day, she found Raiders and we watched it. Once again I was engulfed by the adventure and the history behind the films. Me and her actually had a Bible discussion about the Ark after watching Raiders.
I credit my Grandma for getting me into Indiana Jones. I probably would've got there anyway with my love for history and archaeology, but for a 7 year old to be swept up in the adventure and fantasy of it, made it even better! So on that November day in 1987, Indy Byrd was born and started a 23 year old love affair with history and archaeology, all thanks to my late Grandma (I miss you!!)
Exulted Unicron
New member
I think people hate ToD for a variety of reasons. Its alot darker than what Raiders and Last Crusade. Its alot more violent and compared to Raiders, Indy doesn;t seem to care for anyone other than himself and Shorty, until the latter half of the movie.
Look at how things were in the first half. He wanted to get the Sankara Stones for his own Fortune and Glory and then get the hell out of there.
I used to dislike it myself. But ovet the years, its grown on me. Yes, at first I thought it was nothing like Raiders.
Look at how things were in the first half. He wanted to get the Sankara Stones for his own Fortune and Glory and then get the hell out of there.
I used to dislike it myself. But ovet the years, its grown on me. Yes, at first I thought it was nothing like Raiders.
AgentBelloq
New member
I don't actually hate ToD, there are some aspects I like about it.
I liked the darker feel to it, and the whole story with the Sankara stones. Ok so it's not the Ark or the Holy Grail but it feels like something that Indy would go for. I loved the idea of the Thuggee cult and Mola Ram as a villain, he was portrayed as pure evil.
What lets it down is Willie and Short Round. Willie was annoying, and I could never like Short Round. Even though I have watched the film hundereds upon hundereds of times I still have not liked him. I just felt he was a weak sidekick to me.
I liked the darker feel to it, and the whole story with the Sankara stones. Ok so it's not the Ark or the Holy Grail but it feels like something that Indy would go for. I loved the idea of the Thuggee cult and Mola Ram as a villain, he was portrayed as pure evil.
What lets it down is Willie and Short Round. Willie was annoying, and I could never like Short Round. Even though I have watched the film hundereds upon hundereds of times I still have not liked him. I just felt he was a weak sidekick to me.
Montana Smith
Active member
AgentBelloq said:
I agree 100%.
Shorty was that type of early '80s annoyingly precocious kid. That type has since migrated into a lot of anthropomorphic cartoons (all those smart-ass, uber-cool animated animals).
Yet I won't let Shorty, or the noisy Willie, lessen my affection for TOD. The film would just have been better if Wu-Han had lived to become the sidekick.
I've always loved it, but then, much of that is probably due to my having been just the right age when it was released. It spooked me a little bit while thoroughly capturing my imagination.
Yet objectively, it pales in comparison to ROTLA across the board: Thuggees vs. Nazis. Mola Ram vs. Belloq. Willie vs. Marion. Short Round vs. Sallah. Sankara Stones vs. Ark of the Covenant. Rolling Gong vs. Rolling Boulder. Soundstages vs. Locations. Miniatures on a Track vs. Truck Chase. Etc. vs. Etc.
The darker tone is all it really has going for it these days, but even that is offset by some of the flattest comedy in the entire series.
Of course, I've been hearing these same exact criticisms for over 25 years, and they've never done anything to diminish my enjoyment of the film. Just as I have little compassion for those who felt self-conscious over the sight of a cgi prairie dog or monkey while sitting in the theater. The fact that the Indy franchise represents such an odd and eclectic mixed bag is a big part of why it's so much damn fun.
Yet objectively, it pales in comparison to ROTLA across the board: Thuggees vs. Nazis. Mola Ram vs. Belloq. Willie vs. Marion. Short Round vs. Sallah. Sankara Stones vs. Ark of the Covenant. Rolling Gong vs. Rolling Boulder. Soundstages vs. Locations. Miniatures on a Track vs. Truck Chase. Etc. vs. Etc.
The darker tone is all it really has going for it these days, but even that is offset by some of the flattest comedy in the entire series.
Of course, I've been hearing these same exact criticisms for over 25 years, and they've never done anything to diminish my enjoyment of the film. Just as I have little compassion for those who felt self-conscious over the sight of a cgi prairie dog or monkey while sitting in the theater. The fact that the Indy franchise represents such an odd and eclectic mixed bag is a big part of why it's so much damn fun.
The Drifter
New member
James said:
Every one of those points could be argued.
I happen to find the Thuggee more interesting than Nazis. Mola Ram is a whole different beast than Belloq. I never knew what was so special about Marion. Seen the tom-boy, tough girl act a million times. Sallah is okay, and Short Round is the same. I give you the Ark over the Sankara Stones.
The rolling gong and the boulder does not make for a fair comparison. The boulder was a trap, so I would compare that to the Spike Trap. Which was better IMO.
One could argue that the use of soundstages and miniatures conveys that "movie magic" feeling better than just shooting at a location.
Lonsome_Drifter said:
And I assure you, they have been for decades.
But let's take a moment to look at the Thuggees and the Nazis. Which is the better movie villain? Or, for that matter, just the better all-around villain? The Nazis are one of the few groups that can still be vilified without the depiction triggering a backlash. (An issue that affected both TOD and KOTCS.)
Personally, I love Mola Ram, but which was the more memorable threat: The formidable foe Belloq and Toht with his melting face, or Chattar Lal and the high priest that fell off a cliff?
When TOD was in production, fans were hopeful that Marion would return. This did not happen for Willie Scott during the production of LC.
Now I do think Sallah and Short Round are more evenly matched- both are resourceful and loyal- although most fans did not see it that way at the time of TOD's release.
Lonsome_Drifter said:
I was having a bit of fun and using them to loosely represent the prologues. I suppose I could've used Indy's quest for the Golden Idol vs. the Peacock's Eye. Which sequence would you say is more iconic?
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Where were you when KOTCS was released?
DiscoLad
New member
Stoo said:Loads. I'm just pointing out some facts for you. Whether you think they are negative or not is your point of view.
That said, I LOVE "TEMPLE OF DOOM"!
I lacked true Indiana Jones feeling.
You see, It just didn't feel as classic as the first and third installments.
Good but... not Great. Dig?
The Drifter
New member
James said:And I assure you, they have been for decades.
But let's take a moment to look at the Thuggees and the Nazis. Which is the better movie villain? Or, for that matter, just the better all-around villain? The Nazis are one of the few groups that can still be vilified without the depiction triggering a backlash. (An issue that affected both TOD and KOTCS.)
I agree that Nazis make a better "all-around" villain than the Thuggee. But, the Thuggee are more interesting to me.
Maybe it's because I have seen tons of movies with Nazis as the enemies, but never any with the Thuggee.
Like I said. Mola Ram is a different beast than Belloq. Belloq was a gentleman's villain. He had grace and he was suave and had a certain charm about him that made him cool.
But, Mola Ram was just pure damn evil. He would never had fallen for Marion the way Belloq had.
Mola Ram stuck with me the most from my childhood memories. His heart-pulling stunt scared me to death as a kid!
I'm sure the fans did, but I never really cared much for her character. I think she's over-rated.
I agree with you. The opening of Raider's is more icon than that of Dooms.
Where were you when KOTCS was released?
I was floating around these boards somewhere lol
Stoo
Well-known member
Don't know why you quoted my post in order to add your 2 cents, Disco, but since you have...DiscoLad said:
I didn't say "Doom" was great and only wrote that I love it. Also, what is the 'true' Indiana Jones feeling? A movie which shows Indy in the classroom and deals with a Christian artifact? Up until "Radiers" was re-hashed in 1989, there were only 2 movies and ToD sure felt like an Indy film as much then as it does now. Not everyone hates it nor ranks it at the bottom of the original 3.
Maybe a thread should be started called, "Why does everyone love The Last Crusade"?