Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides

WillKill4Food

New member
I hate how all of these trailers and reviews give away all the moments in the film worth watching...

Anyway, I completely disagree with the Associated Press lady. The first chase scene didn't seem engaging at all. And wasn't there a similar scene in Cutthroat Island? There was one in the SNES game, but I've never seen that film.

The romance doesn't come out of nowhere, but it goes nowhere. Like I said earlier, I didn't come to care for Philip at all, just another generic Bible-thumper not unlike the priest killed in Dead Man's Chest, but you understand why the romance develops, sort of. It just doesn't get resolved, and I don't see it making it into a next film. It does seem like the story should have been longer if all of the plot was going to be resolved, but the sort of serial nature of the film absolves it of a lot of those responsibilities.

Also, I really dislike it when reviewers say something like "I don't want to see Jack Sparrow be the voice of reason." He always was the voice of reason, especially in the first film. I never thought that Will or Elizabeth were the main characters, and the film posters have always shown Johnny Depp as the star. Jack Sparrow isn't Indiana Jones or Luke Skywalker, but he isn't a side character like Han Solo either. He's the main hero, with human flaws and the "trickster" mind (as Blackbeard points out). He's a pirate Bugs Bunny, with hints of Yossarian even, and this is definitely a series where it makes sense for the crazy man to be the sanest.
 

QBComics

Active member
Well, I wasn't expecting much, but I was severely disappointed. I love the first and enjoyed the second and third for what they were, so I was all for a fourth film. However, I found it severely lacking, and still suffered from being too convoluted.

I didn't care for the missionary and the mermaid sub-plot, the spaniards just kinda showed up out of nowhere, the 'zombie' pirates were all around pointless to make the effort to advertise them as zombies. My main complaint with the film has to be the action. I like Rob Marshall, but he can't direct action for ****. The scenes were so un-engaging, and I found myself wanting them to end rather than wanting non-stop action. The only action scene I found truly engaging was the mermaid sequence. It got me on my seat, and was well done.

I'm not sure if I want a fifth or not. I don't get how come it's so difficult to make one of these films. They always seem to try so hard to please fans by either making it more epic than the previous efforts or scaling it down for complaints of too much going on. I just want a fun Pirates movie, not something trying to be better than CotBP.

I'd give it a 2/5.

EDIT: One complaint (and this is for the third and the fourth film, and even a bit of the second film), is how watered down Jack has become. Remember in CotBP when he was actually, you know, a pirate? He killed others, threatened innocents, and still scrambled his way out of situations while remaining witty. "Ah, but you have heard of me." THAT was funny without it being in the audience's face. Unlike Jack screaming at the camera for 10 full seconds. I want him back. I liked that he was a cocky pirate, but was still smart and managed to get out of a pickle. If they *do* end up having a fifth, bring back gritty Jack.
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
QBComics said:
EDIT: One complaint (and this is for the third and the fourth film, and even a bit of the second film), is how watered down Jack has become. Remember in CotBP when he was actually, you know, a pirate? He killed others, threatened innocents, and still scrambled his way out of situations while remaining witty. "Ah, but you have heard of me." THAT was funny without it being in the audience's face. Unlike Jack screaming at the camera for 10 full seconds. I want him back. I liked that he was a cocky pirate, but was still smart and managed to get out of a pickle. If they *do* end up having a fifth, bring back gritty Jack.

That's an interesting point I hadn't really thought of before. While I do think Capt. Jack is mostly the same,
in this new film, I wish he had intentionally mixed up the cups at the end and truly knew Blackbeard would be willing to kill his daughter rather than him saying, "Maybe I got it the other way around" like him saving Angelica was an accident. Amazing such a little thing could've made such a big difference.


The real question is though, which is the better fourth installment: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull or On Stranger Tides? ;)
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Um, he did intentionally mix up the cups... That was the point. The whole time he knew Blackbeard was willing to kill his daughter to live. Remember the whole pistols scene?
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Well, with the way Depp read his line it almost sounded like it wasn't his attention, but with Sparrow, it is always a little hard to tell. ;)
 

kongisking

Active member
I was able to see Pirates: On Stranger Tides on opening day, and these are my thoughts:

The best way I can really describe my experience watching this film would be ?tolerance?. I tolerated the cheesy and cliché human/mermaid romance, the shockingly tame and unexciting action sequences (the exception being Cap?n Jack?s opening escape, which is terrific), the long stretches of nothing but walking and exposition, and the truly forgettable 3-D (I had not intended to see it in 3-D, but I would have been forced to wait three hours for the next 2-D showing).

The film has a few brief moments of fun and delightful imagination (the ship-in-a-bottle gag is a hoot, as is the rocking ship), but the film suffers from a general lack of stuff going on. Especially in comparison to the previous three films, which were absolutely stuffed with memorable scenes and brilliant concepts. I found myself wondering, at multiple times, ?Why couldn?t there be a swordfight inserted here, or a ship battle there, to liven it up??

The film, I?m sorry to say, has a very timid, undaring feel to it. It seems afraid to truly try anything amazing or unique, which is a massive departure from the original trilogy, which made a reputation (either good or bad, depending on your taste) for doing some sensationally outrageous stuff. As previously noted, the setpieces seem way, way, waaaaay too soft and lack a certain element of zing and ka-pow. The zombie crewmembers (one of the things I was looking forward to the most), who by all rights should be awesome and cool, are too bland and uninspired to make much of an impact on the viewer. And that hurts. Nothing?s worse than zombies done wrong, I tell ya what?

But there are definitely a few things to recommend the film for. Johnny Depp is still fantastically fun as our beloved Captain, and I honestly don?t understand the critic?s assertions that Jack seems out of character or has lost his accent. He is still his conniving, daffy, morally ambiguous self. Penelope Cruz allows for some interesting exploration of Jack?s capacity for unselfishness, and her character has a fun rapport with Jack that absolutely mimics Indy and Marion?s banter in Raiders. The two pairs happen to share very similar backstories, making it all the more blatant.

Blackbeard is an impressive presence, played excellently by Ian McShane, with more than his fair share of Kick the Dog moments, making good ol? Mr. Beard (as Jack humorously refers to him as at one point) a pretty nasty piece of work. The mermaid sequence is great, with shades of Jaws giving it a nice, spooky atmosphere. There is a minor pirate on Blackbeard?s crew named Scrum who I found fun and likable, but many of you will probably make him this film?s Mac. Gibbs, Jack?s loyal sidekick, is again a delight to watch, and is one of my favorite sidekicks ever.

And that brings me to the most important thing for me in this movie: Barbossa. I?m very pleased to say that he has not suffered Badass Decay after losing a leg. The dude is still very much the uber-cool scallawag that I found so awesomely amazing in the trilogy. There is a scene where he explains what became of the Black Pearl to Jack, which is an absolute tour-de-force scene for Geoffrey Rush, in which he shows how passionate and heartbroken he is over losing the ship. And his last scene in the movie confirms once and for all that he is the biggest badass of the high seas.

So, all in all, a bland and uninspired movie with brief flashes of charm and cool sprinkled very lightly throughout (I?d have to say my favorite sequence was, again, Jack?s escape from the King?s Palace, which is ridiculously clever and fun to watch). And it really pains me to admit such, as you are all aware of how huge a POTC fan I am. I guess I know now how people felt when they said they were disappointed with KOTCS, as that movie shares a lot of OST?s flaws. This is definitely the weakest of the series, and it honestly makes me scared to see where the filmmakers intend to go with Pirates 5.
 

The Man

Well-known member
kongisking said:
I was able to see Pirates: On Stranger Tides on opening day, and these are my thoughts:

The best way I can really describe my experience watching this film would be ?tolerance?. I tolerated the cheesy and cliché human/mermaid romance, the shockingly tame and unexciting action sequences (the exception being Cap?n Jack?s opening escape, which is terrific), the long stretches of nothing but walking and exposition, and the truly forgettable 3-D (I had not intended to see it in 3-D, but I would have been forced to wait three hours for the next 2-D showing).

The film has a few brief moments of fun and delightful imagination (the ship-in-a-bottle gag is a hoot, as is the rocking ship), but the film suffers from a general lack of stuff going on. Especially in comparison to the previous three films, which were absolutely stuffed with memorable scenes and brilliant concepts. I found myself wondering, at multiple times, ?Why couldn?t there be a swordfight inserted here, or a ship battle there, to liven it up??

The film, I?m sorry to say, has a very timid, undaring feel to it. It seems afraid to truly try anything amazing or unique, which is a massive departure from the original trilogy, which made a reputation (either good or bad, depending on your taste) for doing some sensationally outrageous stuff. As previously noted, the setpieces seem way, way, waaaaay too soft and lack a certain element of zing and ka-pow. The zombie crewmembers (one of the things I was looking forward to the most), who by all rights should be awesome and cool, are too bland and uninspired to make much of an impact on the viewer. And that hurts. Nothing?s worse than zombies done wrong, I tell ya what?

But there are definitely a few things to recommend the film for. Johnny Depp is still fantastically fun as our beloved Captain, and I honestly don?t understand the critic?s assertions that Jack seems out of character or has lost his accent. He is still his conniving, daffy, morally ambiguous self. Penelope Cruz allows for some interesting exploration of Jack?s capacity for unselfishness, and her character has a fun rapport with Jack that absolutely mimics Indy and Marion?s banter in Raiders. The two pairs happen to share very similar backstories, making it all the more blatant.

Blackbeard is an impressive presence, played excellently by Ian McShane, with more than his fair share of Kick the Dog moments, making good ol? Mr. Beard (as Jack humorously refers to him as at one point) a pretty nasty piece of work. The mermaid sequence is great, with shades of Jaws giving it a nice, spooky atmosphere. There is a minor pirate on Blackbeard?s crew named Scrum who I found fun and likable, but many of you will probably make him this film?s Mac. Gibbs, Jack?s loyal sidekick, is again a delight to watch, and is one of my favorite sidekicks ever.

And that brings me to the most important thing for me in this movie: Barbossa. I?m very pleased to say that he has not suffered Badass Decay after losing a leg. The dude is still very much the uber-cool scallawag that I found so awesomely amazing in the trilogy. There is a scene where he explains what became of the Black Pearl to Jack, which is an absolute tour-de-force scene for Geoffrey Rush, in which he shows how passionate and heartbroken he is over losing the ship. And his last scene in the movie confirms once and for all that he is the biggest badass of the high seas.

So, all in all, a bland and uninspired movie with brief flashes of charm and cool sprinkled very lightly throughout (I?d have to say my favorite sequence was, again, Jack?s escape from the King?s Palace, which is ridiculously clever and fun to watch). And it really pains me to admit such, as you are all aware of how huge a POTC fan I am. I guess I know now how people felt when they said they were disappointed with KOTCS, as that movie shares a lot of OST?s flaws. This is definitely the weakest of the series, and it honestly makes me scared to see where the filmmakers intend to go with Pirates 5.

Haven't caught it yet. You think it misses Verbinski, Kong?
 

michael

Well-known member
Kong, your take on it is what I expected.

They seem like they are fun to make for the actors and everyone involved, when I watch them though, just don't do anything for me. I do enjoy the settings in the films.

Rental for sure.
 

kongisking

Active member
The Man said:
Haven't caught it yet. You think it misses Verbinski, Kong?

Absolutely. Verbinski was responsible for a lot of the visual wit and memorable gags from the first three (such as the fork-in-the-wooden-eyeball, the Jack-kabob, etc.), which this installment mostly lacked. I'm fairly certain you will dislike it, seeing as how you were unhappy with KOTCS, which this movie is incredibly similar to. But take heart: Barbossa still rocks. :cool:
 

Goonie

New member
Just a heads-up if any of you want to score cheap tickets to On Stranger Tides, or I should say Blu-Rays of the first three movies. Just a note, I don't know if this is available in the US, but it's here in Canada. Walmart rolled out their Father's Day movie racks full of DVDs and Blu-Rays. I took a look thru them and found all three Blu-Ray combos of the first 3 Pirates movies - all were marked down to $15. They are the 2011 release that came with the code for the On Stranger Tides ticket. A couple weeks ago these movies were hovering around $26 each. Worth to take a look if you don't have them on Blu yet and you are planning to see On Stranger Tides.
:hat:
Lot's of other good movies in the racks as well including Inception for $10, The Expendables for $8, etc.
 

dr.jones1986

Active member
I am a big PotC fan. Other than Indiana Jones and Star Wars, I would say Pirates is my third favorite film series. The original is the best but I enjoyed the 2 and 3rd as well. I was disappointed in this movie. I didn't hate it but it was very forgetable.

I enjoyed the opening escape from the palace, which was classic Jack but other than that I felt like Jack was not as interesting in this movie as he was in the past. I also felt like none of the action scenes were that great. Nothing as memorable as the end fight from CotBP, the three way swordfight in DMC or the maelstrom scene in AWE.

I hated the mermaid aspect which I thought was a waste of time. I did not like the fact that Blackbeard's ship can shoot fire which I thought was too silly for a Pirate movie. As for Blackbeard himself, I found him the least compelling villian in any of the movies. I enjoyed all of the villians from the first three films. Barbossa, Davy Jones and Cutler Beckett were all great.

As for Barbossa, who is my favorite character in the series, I found him to be less cool this time around. Maybe it was the fact that he was without his monkey ( I love monkeys...except for when the encourage a certain Greaser to swing on vines).

This is the first time I have ever really been disappointed for a movie in a series I love. I can understand why people were disappointed in KotCS or the SW prequels. They weren't as good as the originals but they both added something to their respective series. KotCS ties up the loss ends between Indy and Marion. He finally gets married to the woman he never should have left and we find out he has a son. The SW prequels show us how Vader/Republic went from being good to bad. What did OST add to pirates? Nothing that I can see, except for bringing Disney more money. I know some people on this message board knock KotCS, but they should just watch this movie to see how much worse it could have been.

I did not see the film in 3-D but I heard that it was poorly done. Overall this movie was very mediocre.
 

Nurhachi1991

Well-known member
Just saw it and I cant help but think I just watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with different actors and a different setting...
 

dr.jones1986

Active member
WillKill4Food said:
Yo, check this out. Besides, how could fire be silly in a series where one of the main villains is half mollusk?

That is pretty interesting. I still did not like Blackbeard's ship, it looked to similar to The Black Pearl...because it is the Black Pearl. They just changed the name and altered it a little bit. You could really tell they used the same ship.
 

TheMutt92

New member
If I had to summarize the film, I would say it consists of numerous moments of action/adventure, humor, and mystery that are well worth the price of admission (probably just a matinee though), but as a whole the film doesn't entirely work for me. In this respect it has more similarities with AWE than COTBP or DMC. I would still recommend it, and I actually enjoyed myself (especially in the moment) so from me it gets a very low 4/5. That's the same rating I gave AWE (w/ the first two getting 5/5's from me).

On paper (and even in most of the film) the plot works: Jack rekindles an old flame and searches for the Fountain of Youth all while trying to stay ahead of the pirate Blackbeard, the Royal Navy, and the Spanish. And yet, there are elements of it that don't work for me.

To start, Blackbeard's relationship w/ Angelica just seems forced. She didn't need to be his daughter. She could've just been another female pirate (similar to Anna Maria in COTBP) w/ her own crew. She, Jack, and her crew get captured by Blackbeard's ship and that's how they get connected.

Another problem for me was the lack in developing new characters. As much as I don't think it was neccessarily a bad idea making Jack the lead character (he was always billed as much in previous outings) he didn't really have a developed straight man for a foil. Barbossa is just as crazy as he is, Blackbeard is evil, and Angelica is too similar to Jack.

The closest you come to it is in the character of Phillip the missionary. He was the closest to be fully developed of the secondary characters, but still fell short. Make him the lead. Or what about the boy that was part of Angelica's crew? He had a sort of Jim Hawkins vibe to him, make him the lead. Or at least give him an actual role. Maybe it would've been too similar to "Treasure Island" but it would've given the film a fresh point of view.

I remember watching Prince of Persia a few months back (another Jerry Bruckheimer/Disney collaboration) and really digging Alfred Molina's character. To me, his character was Jack Sparrow's fifteen or twenty years down the road. Which got me thinking, why not have Jack play a more supporting role in future installments? Its called Pirates of the Caribbean, not The Adventures of Jack Sparrow. He can still play an essential part of the film, just don't introduce him until later in the film.

I'm bold enough to say wait till halfway through the film to do so, savor the character. That would allow the writers, director, and producer to explore other elements of the pirate verse while still utilizing the character (and he would still be in it enough to use him for marketing). I know other people might not agree, but I thought not seeing Jack for the first 30 minutes of AWE was brilliant. The first part of the film is easily my favorite and it only features about 5 minutes of Jack.

One of the other underdeveloped plot elements is the Spanish. When they're on screen, they're easily one of the most entertaining parts of the film. I mean, considering they're the characters who get the search for the fountain going, its a shame they aren't featured more (a sea battle between them and the English, or any other ship for that matter would've been appreciated).

But I have to say, my biggest disappointment was Blackbeard's zombie crew. Considering this is the franchise that gave us cursed skeletons and Davy Jones' crew, they were a major let down. I know the budget was lower than the last few, but make them more interesting. Make them scary. Or at least have more of them (I swear I saw only two the whole time). The film should've shown people from Angelica's crew being turned into zombies, or have Blackbeard raise people from the dead, or maybe even the side effect of the fountain is that you live forever but are a zombie.

Even Gibbs, one of the few remaining characters, felt underused. In the middle he dissapears for an extended period of time, which they explain later but still makes you wish he was around more (although he is put to good use in the beginning).

And as for the plot/structure, considering this is the shortest film in the series, its strangely convoluted and rambling, and yet it has the most streamlined plot. This is especially true once they reach the island of the fountain of youth. There's a lot of characters running around, leaving groups, coming back, hidden intentions revealed, etc. that don't always seem neccessary or make the most sense. And this is where its similar to AWE in a lot of ways. Sure, AWE was confusing w/ everyone double crossing each other, but I found it makes more sense upon second and third viewing. This just seemed unneccessary
especially when Jack was running around the island on his own. I don't even remember a lot of what happened there except thinking it was unneccessary.
I would've rather seen more plot fill the run time than simply stretching it.

The action is also not as exciting as it should be. W/ the exception of one sequence (which I'll detail later) there's nothing memorable that lives up to the ship battle in COTBP, the three way sword fight and Kracken attacks in DMC, or the maelstrom sequence in AWE. A sword fight early on is reminiscent of Will and Jack's first duel, but while parts of it are interesting, its just a reminder at how better the other ones were shot.

One aspect that I found interesting but underdeveloped was the
Blackbeard and Barbossa plot line. I liked the whole "one-legged man" dream that Blackbeard fears because he knows it will lead to his death, felt like a plot element in a spaghetti western (actually it reminded me more of the witch and Azeem from Prince of Thieves, but also similar to western characters speaking of a man in black coming or something). But I felt that Barbossa serving the Royal Navy wasn't the means to achieve it. I didn't believe that he would join them just to hunt down Blackbeard (its a stretch to think he would get to kill Blackbeard just by doing that). I would prefer to think that Barbossa lost his ship and crew to the Royal Navy and was the offered the chance to either hang or serve, similar to what he makes Gibbs choose between.


Also, I feel like Barbossa has lost his edge. He's closer to the character in AWE than in COTBP. In the first film, Barbossa was the villain so he had to be terrifying. Just because he's swapped sides a couple times dosn't mean he should lose that.
I'm also not sure whether making him captain of the Queen Anne's Revenge is the proper way to take his character. Sure I like that we get the old Barbossa back, and the ship is easily one of the most inventive parts of the films, but it seems like the film is crisscrossing its mythology a little too much. The Black Pearl I could always imagine as being both Jack and Barbossa's ship, even the Flying Dutchman to me seemed like it could be both Davy Jones and Will Turner's ship. But the Queen Anne's Revenge seems like a Blackbeard only vessel.
Otherwise, I enjoyed the direction his character took took.

So my main critique is underdevelopment. I know they wanted to start fresh and keep the story/characters streamlined, but why not take the time to explain a little more, whether through dialogue or action. Is Blackbeard alive or in a zombie mode as well? (I went in w/ a little knowledge of his history and legend, still couldn't figure out whether or not he had been beheaded before).

Whew, enough about negatives. Lets move onto some positives... (which will take another post)
 

TheMutt92

New member
(Cont'd)

The opening in London (up until Angelica's introduction) is easily the highlight of the film. It differentiates the film from the rest of the series in part by the different location and setup for action. Its inventive and exciting and something we havn't seen in these films before (and sadly, the only action scene on par w/ the first three).

A close second for me is the first appearance of the mermaids. Both terrifying and seductive, they are easily the best part of this film and a worthy addition to the franchise (unlike the zombies).

Blackbeard's introduction is also a noteworthy scene. Its the perfect combination of direction, acting, writing, and music, and I think the one scene where Rob Marshall's stage background came into play (the last few seconds of that scene feel like the end of a music number on stage, the holding for applause, etc.).

Stephen Graham as Scrum is a welcome addition to the cast of characters and a worthy replacement of Pintel and Ragetti. I'm hoping he comes back for future installments.

Also, Blackbeard's death: very cool effect. I only wish Spalko's demise in KOTCS could've been like that.


Hans Zimmer's score is another highlight (I have never been once dissapointed by a soundtrack of his). I've said this before and I'll say it again: the Spanish flavor really gives us a fresh score. Even w/o Gore Verbinski directing, the score still has parts that echo Ennio Morricone, in particular the track The Pirate That Should Not Be and Angry and Dead Again (with its use of bells it reminds me of For A Few Dollars More. If you're a fan of that film you know what I mean).

I like how the film, despite being a 'reboot' of sorts, still kept certain elements from the previous trilogy. Sao Feng's map of the fountain makes an appearance, as does one of the naval officers from the first and third film. But at the same time, if you're going to 'reboot' go full out.
If the Black Pearl and its crew aren't in the film, get rid of them entirely. As much as I love the ship (and it really is its own character) it is just that: a ship. Jack even says that in one of the films. Its been raised from the sea twice now, don't do it again.


I must admit I did like Jack and Gibbs' final exchange in the film. And as for the secret ending,
I'm interested to see where the voodoo doll goes from here. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. :p


Looking back on my review, it is mixed. But movies like POTC films don't come around that often (Ridley Scott's Robin Hood and the upcoming Three Musketeers being the only exceptions I can think of), which surprises me considering their recent success. So if you enjoyed the previous three, you should enjoy this. Although I would recommend a matinee and in 2D (unless you're not strapped for cash).
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
^ I really think you're giving this movie more credit than it is due just by the fact that you wrote such a long editorial on it... and then continued it with a back to back post. It was a churned out summer blockbuster and nothing more. Not worth an essay.
 

TheMutt92

New member
Dr. Gonzo said:
^ I really think you're giving this movie more credit than it is due just by the fact that you wrote such a long editorial on it... and then continued it with a back to back post. It was a churned out summer blockbuster and nothing more. Not worth an essay.

haha, yeah i didn't intend to write an essay. i just started writing a few thoughts and it sorta went from there.
 

kongisking

Active member
I disagree. Even sub-par movies deserve in-depth analysis. Good review, 92, and it was pretty close to my own thoughts on the film. :hat:
 

Goonie

New member
I finally saw the movie last night. I posted this on another message board, the way I'd rank the movies:

1. The Curse of the Black Pearl - hey it's the first adventure with Captains Jack and Barbossa. Usually nothing beats the original.
2. On Stranger Tides - Felt like watching Raiders of the Lost Ark - including the super natural climax at the end. Loved the simpler story, the innuendos, and the new characters.
3. At World's End - definitely the most epic in terms of locales and effects, but more isn't always better.
4. Dead Man's Chest - This one feels like the Temple of Doom episode of this series. Some really gross parts (i.e. crow pecking at a guy's eyeball) peppered with some outlandish humour and juvenile performance by Captain Jack (Willie Scott comes to mind). I didn't like it that much at first, but it has grown on me with each subsequent viewing. Still the weakest in the series though. But, Davy Jones was a highlight.

On Stranger Tides did have a "inspired by Indiana Jones" vibe written all over it - probably why I enjoyed it so much. Basically it was a quest for a macguffin, requiring acquisition of smaller macguffins, including a super natural demise climax at the end. I thoroughly enjoyed it and will be seeing it again as I got another two free tickets from the blu-rays of the first three movies. Hoping to catch it on the IMAX screen when I move to Calgary in a couple weeks.

Favourite line from Jack:
"I support the Missionary's position!"
(y)
- was surprised a line like this was in a Disney movie - I laughed hard at this one.
Favourite line from Teague: "Does this face look like it's been to the fountain of youth?"
- perfect line from Keith.
 
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