We all know the last 5+ years of Indy 4 history pretty well. However, there's a big gap in my knowledge of the project.
From my own point of view, I remember the official announcement of (circa) October 1993 when our three friends said that they were going to reconvene some day to make a fourth instalment -- but the next I really heard of it was early 2000 when the first three films came out on video in 2.35:1. There were short 'making-of's on those tapes and George Lucas said they had a script for number 4.
It started rolling thereafter, with Spielberg giving an interview about A.I. in 2001 in which he said (something like) "the Indy 4 hat is halfway on my head".
But is there any definite history of those quieter years? Who wrote that script Lucas talked of in 1999/2000? Did 'the big three' say anything about the film in that time?
Has anyone put together a chronological, “in their own words”, collection of soundbites from the Indy alumni dating from, well, 1989 onwards? They’ve certainly been asked for updates often enough! What a fascinating read that would be.
There was the Atlantis talk in the early 90's (I still think it would have been great to have had an Atlantis movie in 1993/4) and then relatively nothing until 2000 when it was rumoured that 'man of the moment' M Night would be taking on scripting duties.
I suppose both Spielberg and Ford were busy in the late 90's trying other things, and Lucas had those other little movies to concentrate on.
Apparently it was Ford that got momentum going on Indy 4 again a few years back. I suppose following on from a string of lacklustre efforts (K19/Hollywood Homicide/Firewall) a return to Indy seemed like the perfect antidote.
The earliest rumblings began around 1993. Ford realized that his getting back to action (The Fugitive) was what people wanted to see, and admitted he would like to don the fedora again. But there were never any serious plans at this time, with (post-Schindler) Spielberg saying he couldn't return to "cartoon nazis" any time soon.
It was mainly just Ford saying he would do it "in a New York minute" whenever he was asked. And Ford was doing a lot of press over the next year, with The Fugitive generating Oscar buzz and the increasing popularity of Tom Clancy/Jack Ryan. As a result, Indy 4 was suddenly rumoured to be released in Summer 1995. I assume this is the period that ultimately led to the Saucer Men script (Jeb Stuart).
When that script was rejected, the project seemed to return to the realm of interview/fan speculation. In 1996, the Sons of Darkness script surfaced online. This was the first of many plots which would be released online over the next few years. The script was ultimately revealed to be a fan creation, but at the time, people weren't sure what to make of it.
The same year, Spielberg suggested in an interview that the plot would concern Adam and Eve. (This would later be hinted at in a 2002 interview, when Spielberg said he would like Indy 4 to center around a "mature love story, ala Robin and Marion".) He also admitted that Atlantis had never been under consideration for the plot.
During 1997, Ford was spotted in Hawaii filming Six Days, Seven Nights. This led to a new rumour that Indiana Jones and the Lost Continent was underway.
The biggest momentum came in 1998. Spielberg gave an interview where he admitted his children always asked him, "When are you going to make another Indiana Jones?" He revealed that he had promised them he would, and that the fedora was halfway on his head again. Lucas seemed very eager too, and most were expecting an announcement at any time. Cinescape even released an issue with Indy (rope bridge) on the cover and the headline, "He's Back!"
There were also two mysterious scripts that surfaced via brief excerpts. The first, Raiders of the Fallen Empire (Garrett Black), was said to be under consideration by both Lucas and Paramount. It was alleged to center around the discovery of the Garden of Eden, which recalled Spielberg's earlier remarks. The second, Law of One, featured the return of Willie Scott (and her daughter), a 1950's setting, and an ancient device which had destroyed Atlantis. The latter was reportedly just another work of fan fiction, however...
It's interesting to note that all of those elements have resurfaced over the years. Ford and Capshaw have suggested Willie Scott will return. There have been rumours of Indy having a daughter. A 1950's setting has been mentioned several times. And the developers of IJ and the Infernal Machine reported that their storyline had to be altered, for fear that it would interfere with the plot of Indy 4.
Personally, I think 1998 was the closest the project came to happening, with Darabont's script being the next "near miss". During press for Minority Report, Spielberg admitted they were ready to go in 1998, but the script simply fell apart. Everything else has (seemingly) been fanned by the internet and the fact that interviewers continue to ask about Indy 4.
The Columbus script was IJ and Monkey King. It was originally intended as Indy III, with many elements (such as a tank chase) making their way into Last Crusade.
The Chris Columbus script was redated by someone to make it look like they had an Indy 4 script.
Saucermen was written by Jeb Stuart of Die Hard fame, not Boam (unless Boam tackled an extremely early draft, and judging by the final saucermen script we have seen, I don't want to see an early rejected version of it).
Anyways, I think what would be the ultimate thing for Indy fans would be a comprehensive making of Indy 4 book that covered all of the development, and included a CD with PDF's of every script that was ever in consideration. Only then would I be truly satisfied.
Saucermen was written by Jeb Stuart of Die Hard fame, not Boam (unless Boam tackled an extremely early draft, and judging by the final saucermen script we have seen, I don't want to see an early rejected version of it).
No, that's correct. Boam's name has basically been credited to every fake script over the years (ie. Sons of Darkness; etc.), which is probably why I always want to credit him for Saucermen as well.
Anyways, I think what would be the ultimate thing for Indy fans would be a comprehensive making of Indy 4 book that covered all of the development, and included a CD with PDF's of every script that was ever in consideration. Only then would I be truly satisfied.
Absolutely -- wouldn't that be great? In fact, we really need a book about the entire saga. Surely, next year, we might well get it?
Has anyone here actually read Sons of Darkness? I've heard the basic storyline but was it any good?
Not really. I remember thinking it could've been an okay comic miniseries, but not a good movie. It was basically noteworthy for being one of the first alleged script leaks. Even Lucasfilm didn't seem to know what to make of it, and threatened to sue.
There wasn't much action in it, as Indy spent 2/3 of the plot just trying to make his way to Mt. Ararat. Most of the story focused on his 12-year-old son, who decided to run away and look for Noah's Ark.
It was also somewhat depressing. Marion had become an alcoholic. Henry Sr. died (offscreen) within the first few pages. And Indy was semi-retired from globe-trotting. (In fact, it was a little surprising at how much Indy acknowledged his age- especially considering this was back before people starting making old jokes about Indy 4.)
Noah's Ark made for a very anticlimactic finale, and there were far too many nods to Raiders. I was glad to see Koepp acknowledge that they are going to try and avoid that type of thing in Indy 4.
Another thing that ties quite nicely into everything that's happened is Hal Barwood's comment in an interview back in '98 when they were developing the Infernal Machine:
"We had another story to go for at first, but the company told us to put it on hold, because they might use it one day to make a movie."
It remains unrevealed of which story he does talk about, but it certainly fits the timeframe. Also would explain why we never saw a script; it was penned out as a plot outline that got George quite excited but it never made it into completed script...
Plus, it's another viable explanation to the current "McGuffin" speech. With lot of ifs, naturally.
It remains unrevealed of which story he does talk about, but it certainly fits the timeframe.
Yes, I agree with that theory.
The only disappointing thing here is that, it basically sounds like Spielberg and Ford just said, "Fine, George, we'll do your idea." And if true, that means we could've had Indy 4 nearly a decade earlier.
So did Hal Barwood stumble upon one of the ideas already being considered by Lucasfilm, or did he discover the exciting macguffin himself (contrary to Lucas's claim)? I'm sure he's eager to tell. Make a note to ask him next year.
Actually, more I think of it, more viable it appears that the "mystery screenwriter" we've been looking for the movie they were planning in the late 90s is Hal Barwood.
After all, he did pen Spielberg's early thriller Sugarland Express. He was also helping screenwrite Close Encounters of the Third Kind, plus he had given already proof he can write an Indy adventure by the means of plot in FoA.
There were rumors of Indy going after Atlantis in the mid 90s. Barwood's involvement work as a partial explanation to those too.
A lot of guesswork here, but the evidence clinches together nicely nevertheless.
When was Infernal Machine released, and when did it start development? The second question is more important than the first.
It was released in 2000.
Considering it uses the original Jedi Knight's engine which was released in '97... as the code it uses has been around since '95, that's absolutely as far back as we can draw IM's technical development as well. However, it seems likely that IM did not enter development until after Jedi Knight.
Storyboard stage could of course have existed for god knows how long... all the way since FoA hit shelves for all we know. But as usual, it seems likely we're going past mid 90s with this phase of development as well.
So, to answer the second question, sometime between 1997-99 most likely.
So it would've started after all the Alien scripts were written in 95 then. Interesting. I was going to suggest that the game may have been more Alien themed, and they had to change that to make way for the alien sripts, but if it was started 97-98 then I am considerably more intrigued by this.
Gah! This is killing me! I wonder how long before we start to find out what he's after...
I was going to suggest that the game may have been more Alien themed.
Well, IM's final chapter was very alien themed, and now when I'm looking at it from a certain angle, I can actually see some homages paid to Saucer Men even though IM's built in more like a traditional adventure. Certain themes are there that could have made it into game straight from Stuart's scrapped script.
Who knows, possibly the game plays a bigger role in the events taking in place in the end of the 90s than we can guess. Barwood penned out a plot idea he meant for this new game, but Lucas got excited and thought that they could in fact use it for an actual movie. So they pen out a new story for the game (with some borrowed elements from Saucer Men)... yet for one reason or another, the movie never gets greenlit.
"Oh well, at least we gave them the game. Better than nothing."
Stretching it, I know... but speculation is always fun.
I wonder if this "controversial" element Lucas was talking about was relating to the fans or to the world in general. If its the latter then I'd agree with the people who think it has to do with Islam.
Thank you so much for every one that added such interesting stuff. This was a fun read to see the devolpment of indy 4. I had no idea all that was going on back then! Thanks again!
Here's Indy news from Corona, 1996-1998. I weeded out the fan script rumors, but some questionable elements (who the heck is Drew Babcock?) remain.
Quote:
Indiana Jones 4
First Archive Scoops Pre-1999:
(February, 1996 - September 20, 1998)
February, 1996... The Lucasfilm club reports that screenwriter Jeffrey Boam has handed in a treatment that Lucas liked, and Spielberg and Ford are currently looking it over. The script may feature the return of some of the previous leading ladies of the trilogy: Kate Capshaw was interviewed by Parade magazine that all three actresses are lobbying to be in the show, and word is that Karen Allen's character of Marion figures in the Boam script. Boam is working on a second draft.
March, 1996... Boam's second draft is in Lucasfilm's hands, reports producer Rick McCallum.
July 18, 1996... A unconfirmed 'source' at Paramount tells us that the script leaked was indeed the real draft by Jeffrey Boam, and that Lucasfilm wants to 'test the waters'. However, new ideas such as the search for the Garden of Eden and a different rival college named 'Professor Conrad' are mentioned - which aren't in the Sons of Darkness Internet script.
July 22, 1996... Drew Babcock, a freelance writer for film and television at the Washington Post writes to us to tell of a recent interview with Steven Spielberg. One answer he could not be too specific about was the next Indiana Jones film. Spielberg may or may not direct it depending on his schedule at DreamWorks. However Speilberg said any ideas of the lost city of Atlantis have not been a part of the script process. He also did say that the movie may have an ancient biblical element. When asked what kind, Spielberg said something 'to do with Adam and Eve'. Babcock was interested, and decided to pursue it further - a source at Paramount told him the title 'Indiana Jones and the Garden of Life' is being tossed around.
September 3, 1996... On August 18th, Steve Sansweet (a Lucasfilm representative) said at a science fiction convention that Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford had recently agreed on a script. They are now just waiting to schedule filming. Sansweet said it would probably happen after 1999-2000. However, nothing's been released to the mainstream press yet.
January 28, 1997... At the Fangoria Weekend Of Horrors Convention (held in Chicago, August '96) Lucasfilm rep Steve Sansweet confirmed that Steven Spielberg, George Lucas and Harrison Ford had all approved the latest (at that time) draft of the Indy IV script. "At this time [Indy 4 is] as close to being a reality as its ever been, and not just a rumor," Sansweet said. He then went on to drop a few hints as to the particulars of the plot. Sansweet hinted that Sean Connery was going to return, and that the film would "probably" be filmed in 1998 for a 1999 release date. Sansweet cited the busy schedule of all three Indy creators as being the key factor in the way of Indiana Jones' return.
July 6, 1997... According to this person's friend who's a computer animator working at ILM, the next Indy film won't feature an evil brother - just that it's got something to do with religion.
July 22, 1997... According to this fellow who heard it straight from the mouth of Steve Sansweet, Lucas, Spielberg and Ford have agreed upon the script. Now all that remains is scheduling the time for the three to collaborate on the film.
September 9, 1997... Here are a couple of new strong rumors to toss on the ol' Indy pile. If this keeps up the page'll begin to look like the present James Bond page...
"While I was managing a movie theater here in Moscow, Idaho, one of my employees told me about a local resident (a friend of her father's) who was approached by someone connected with Spielberg and the Indiana Jones IV development team.
"This resident (who I am acquainted with; a friend of my family as well) is a minister and theologist. He recently took a trip back east for biblical research, and became involved with a study of Genesis.
"So, somewhere along the line, someone connected with Indiana Jones IV heard about his studies and asked him to participate in fact-checking and historical accuracy with Indy Jones IV. He mentioned to my employee that they sent him a completed script to be checked for biblical truth and reverancy. He read the script and gave it his personal seal of approval.
"He mentioned that the script dealt with the Garden of Eden, and its discovery by Indiana Jones. He said that it was extremely religous in its tone, and that it played with some of the same elements as Raiders of the Lost Ark. He also said that the script was only a 'possibility,' one of several possible ideas for Indy IV. He said it was very exciting and would play well as a film.
"I would have to rate this scoop as extremely reliable; I know this minister and theologist personally. I have no doubts as to the accuracy of this story." We'd love to be able to confirm the existence of multiple Indy 4 scripts and/or proposals besides the older (and already passed-by) ones.
January 14, 1998... This scooper claims to have heard from an inside source in DreamWorks that there are some 'hard' facts established for what will become the nest Indy picture. The scooper claims that the next film will be set after World War Two, and that Indy will have a wife and a daughter and possibly other family members. Sean Connery is planned to return as Indy's Dad. The casting would be finished by March, and so the scooper is assuming something official will be heard around then.
May 5, 1998... "This movie won't be getting made anytime soon, if at all," our mysterious scoop informant whispers in our ear. "While one of Paramount's big-wish films, Harrison Ford nor Steven Spielberg like the scripts that have been turned in. Jeffrey Boam's latest surrounded the post-WWII recovery of a Nazi sub, the discovery of some Dead Sea Scrolls, a metatronic (meaning: the power of God appearing to take you away physically) device, and Indy's family. The evil brother storyline isn't anywhere to be found, as in Jeb Stuart's treatment. Indy's dad's involved, but not to the extent of INDY 3 -- he's more comic relief in the vein of Marcus Brody. Right now, with Harrison getting older, don't hold your breath for this one." And the Indy fans 'round the world let out a collective sigh...
September 20, 1998... Could this be the news we've all been waiting for? "I saw a Dreamwatch magazine, Sept. cover#48, that had a one page article on Jurassic Park 3 & Indy 4. It states that Jeffrey Boam script for Indy 4 has been shelved. And that Spielberg supposedly has approached Raiders co-writer Lawrence Kasdan to come up with a story.
"Whether this is true is speculative (this much is from the mag). It seems everywhere I've been on the web, knows that Jeffrey Boam has been the only writer ever approached to do Indy 4's story. He has stated that his initial treatment 4-5 yrs ago has never been acknowledged by Lucas etc. Spielberg from what I've read, has always stated that he has a general story idea for Indy 4 right now. Seems he has a heavy involvement with this one in terms of creativity. I personally don't know what to believe."
