I mean, most TV series are either huge hits (in terms of viewers) or have a cult following of some sort. YIJC was and is neither. It seems to be off the radar of the casual viewer and derided by a lot of IJ film fans. And the DVDs haven't sold nearly as well as you would expect an Indy-related product would sell. What do people have against this show? Can't people see the brilliance in it? At least the critics did.
It's a shame.The show is one of the greatest shows that has ever graced the small screen.I think that for the casual viewer when the hear 'Indiana Jones" they want action scenes not some nine year old running around with Norman Rockwell.Shame really,Because some people are missing out on some brilliant stories.
I do think that the DVD sets are selling well.Not as good as the trilogy obviously,But well enough to warrant the other volumes to follow.
To be perfectly honest... it just never felt like Indiana Jones to me.
Indiana Jones is the man. He is the hat, fedora, whip... the costume is as much a part of his character as anything. But most of all, he is Harrison Ford. I've seen a million fans, stunt men, etc. don the costume but none fill it like Ford.
The series never had a chance of really feeling like Indiana Jones. I understand the purpose of the series and why it doesn't contain those things... but that's the Indy I love. The one of the films.
Don't get me wrong now, I love Young Indiana Jones and a lot of you guys know that, but after some research and having seen most of it, I kinda realise why it failed:
1) It didn't have the real Indy feeling to it. Sure, there was Action and Humor but a lot of people wanted to see their hero recovering artifacts and fighting Nazis!
2) Lucas wanted this series to be for kids and teens. Now, here comes the problem. Sure, Kids love episodes like Vienna or Paris, 1908 but what about Verdun, Somme, Germany, let alone Transylvania. Some episodes were too violent for children to see them and some had just to much childish humor in them, for adults to like them.
3) One of the biggest issues also was Indy meeting that many historical people. He met at least 100 different historical peole throughout the series, and many people thought it didn't make sense. Well, let's be honest, does it make more sense to survive someone ripping your heart out or meet an 800 year old crusader! The series was there to educate and entertain, the films just to entertain and both had the right elements to suceed.
After all, Young Indiana Jones was a great TV Series, but there weren't enough people like you metalinvader, Matinee, Adamwankenobi, Stoo, Jeremiah Jones and me to save it. I know there are a lot more people out here who like Young Indy but those were the ones I could think of right now
Last edited by Flannery10 : 12-24-2007 at 09:03 AM.
I can understand why people use the excuse,"It doesn't feel like Indiana Jones".They are right.It doesn't.But what did they expect,Indy coming out of the womb cracking a whip and donning a fedora?The events made the man,From his first adventure in Egypt to Working in Hollwood,It is what made him what he is (Well,Besides Abner but that is a different story!)
One thing I love is seeing one of my favorite fictional characters past and future.I love seeing the events that molded said character into one of the reasons why I came to love said character.BEsides brilliant scripts and story telling,This is the reason why I love Young Indy.
But like I said earlier,I can totally understand why the show never caught on.
People want to see Harrison and be honest,Who doesn't rank the Mystery of the Blues bookends in their top 5 moments from that show..
*Quick edits*
As much as I love them and thought that they did an AMAZING job...Do you think that if Corey and Flanery looked like Harrison would the show had been more of a success?Food for thought.
Oh and lets pray that this doesn't turn into the "Young Indy:cannon or not" thread!
I enjoyed the show, but I didn't like the fact that Indy was such a girl in it.
People will respond by saying that heroes don't spring out of their mother's wombs, and thats fair enough, but there should be SOME semblance of the man we see in the films in the show.
I also agree that the portrayal of Indy from being a daring little kid to a wussy young man wasn't what people wanted to see. Personally I lost interest when SPF took over. There was nothing about him that hinted at the Indy he would grow into. I for one can suspend my disbelief to a point, but the fact that he looked nothing like Ford and really was lacking any of Ford's mannerisms, took away from the show for me.
I still don't particularly care for the beginning of LC for the similar reason that Phoenix doesn't make me think of Ford at all! He at least got the mannerisms down, but between his hair (that he kept playing with) and him not really looking like Ford, I once again had a hard time seeing him as the younger version of Ford's Indy.
If they changed the name of the hero, no one would have drawn parallels to the movies. They just aren't even remotely alike. The only episode that you could say was "inspired" by the movies was Treasure of the Peacock's Eye.
Is it a good series? Maybe. Is it Indiana Jones? Aboslutely not.
The series not selling well has nothing to do with the show. It's the price. That's why I'm not buying it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flannery10
After all, Young Indiana Jones was a great TV Series, but there weren't enough people like you metalinvader, Matinee, Adamwankenobi, Stoo, Jeremiah Jones and me to save it. I know there are a lot more people out here who like Young Indy but those were the ones I could think of right now
I enjoy Young Indy but the one thing that bothered me the most, as many have suggested was the idea of Indy being Forrest Gump and meeting all these famous people. Sure, education is fine, but Lucas could have spread the people out a little more and have episodes that could be more to do with events, culture of the times, etc that have nothing to do with meeting a historical figure (the Petrograd 1917 episode did this pretty well) and still be teaching history. And again, Flannery while a good actor, in a lot of episodes, I struggle to see the Indy that is to be, I believe because of writing and direction.
George Hall was believable to be the Indy-to-come-after-HF. Corey Carrier was pretty believable too and I could see that curious/daring streak in him. Perhaps it just should have been Corey. I would have written the teen Indy as way more rebellious (though joining the Mexican Revolution and later WW1, is quite rebellious for that time, his attitude in doing it, just didn't seem badass enough). His chemistry with his father in "Travels with Father" (new bookends) is fantastic. One of the moments closest to the movie series. Especially the ending. Pure genius. "I thought you were going to Princeton?", "I'm going the University of Chicago, it's got a better archaeology course" and that's just after they hug and make up after recounting the Russia and Greece flashbacks.
And one more little thing... Young Indy always says, 'Father' and 'Mother', whereas in LC, both Ford and Phoenix say, 'Dad' and in the conversation after the motorbike chase, Ford says "Mom". When does Indy start saying 'Dad and Mom'? That always bugged me.
2) Lucas wanted this series to be for kids and teens. Now, here comes the problem. Sure, Kids love episodes like Vienna or Paris, 1908 but what about Verdun, Somme, Germany, let alone Transylvania. Some episodes were too violent for children to see them and some had just to much childish humor in them, for adults to like them.
That's pretty much how he did the Star Wars prequels as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalinvader
But what did they expect,Indy coming out of the womb cracking a whip and donning a fedora?
Only Chuck Norris could do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flannery10
After all, Young Indiana Jones was a great TV Series, but there weren't enough people like you metalinvader, Matinee, Adamwankenobi, Stoo, Jeremiah Jones and me to save it. I know there are a lot more people out here who like Young Indy but those were the ones I could think of right now
It's kind of sad, because everyone I know my age and younger would be bored by the series. Adults who aren't already Indy fans (and who've probably seen none or very little of the films) but might have an interest in history will see the "Indiana Jones" logo on the front, and immediately dismiss it as "juvenile" and "childish". And people who already are Indy fans (of the films), will see how closely tied that the series is to real history, and immediately dismiss it as "boring".
I guess it takes a certain kind of person/mindset to appreciate the series. I love history and I love Indiana Jones. I love the high adventure cheesy fun of the films, and the character study/drama/historical fiction elements of the TV series. It's all really cool to me. I appreciate the philosophical and cultural issues presented in the series, and at the same time love the quote unquote "juvenile" aspects of the series and films.
And, given that we're talking about a general public that thinks reality shows are examples of great television, it's really no surprise YIJC is still so unknown.
Last edited by Adamwankenobi : 12-25-2007 at 11:17 AM.
The Corey Carrier episodes were very often more interesting than the Flannery episodes, and sometimes had more action. That said, I concur that the characters of late teen Indy and Henry Sr. were totally against what was shown in the Last Crusade. Lucas is frequently guilty of this when he does prequels, and it's a cardinal mistake in my book. Flannery was way too nice, dorky, squeamish, and a know it all. That probably worked best for the series, but did not fit with the movies.
Why did it flop? Well, a reason I always felt was the name. If it had been originally broadcast as The Adventures of.... rather than the Chronicles, it would have faired better. "Chronicles" is immediately a dull and boring term.
First of all, I wanted to say that I may be one of the more hardcore YIJC fans on this board. I think the "Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" is definitely one of the greatest TV dramas of all time, and I actually think some of the episodes are better than the IJ films. Also, I think that Volumes 1-2 of the YIJ DVD sets that recently came out are among the top ten TV DVD releases this year.
And, I am looking forward to Volume 3 of the DVD set even more than the new IJ film.
That being said, however, I completely understand why the "general public" (primarily in the US) either didn't like the show, or just didn't "get" it:
* Anyone expecting the show to be a smaller, TV version of the films was dissapointed. The show was not meant to be like the action packed adventures that we saw in the films, but a slower paced journey through the history and events of the early 20th century. Lucas even stated this in interviews given at the time the show came out.
* I think the educational aspects of the film turned some/many people off. I even remember a friend at the time mentioning that he would have liked the show better if Lucas didn't try to make it "educational". Of course, that was one of the whole points of the show, which was lost on many.
* The fact that Indy met a lot of historical figures seemed far-fetched to many, and this has also been mentioned on this thread. I had no problem with this, and found it made the show more interesting. After all, it is a TV show and IJ is a larger-than-life heroic character anyway, as seen from the films. So, I took these meetings with historical figures with a grain of salt, and saw Indy as a guide through the 20th century - we were seeing the events/historical figures through his eyes and from his perspective.
* The non-chronological airing of the episodes (when they were originally shown) was probably confusing to many. First you saw Indy as late-teenager, then as a little kid - then you saw him fighting in WW I, then in New Jersey going to High School, then as a spy in WW I, etc. Because of the nature of the shooting schedule, I don't think that they could've shown the episodes chronologically - however, most mainstream audiences don't like seeing TV shows that way.
* The WW I aspect of the show probably didn't go over too well with a US audience, since WW I was not a huge deal in the US (the US only got offically involved in the last year of that war). However, I think the show did very well over in Europe, which was greatly affected by WW I.
All this being said, the same reasons that the show didn't do well are the exact reasons that I liked it. It was a completely original, big-budget historical TV show that showed the audience some of the defining and important events at the beginning of the 20th century.
Hopefully the show will find a new audience on DVD. Watching the tele-films on DVD is probably the best way to watch the show, since they are being released in chronological order and make the most sense when viewed in that order.
Last edited by phantom train : 12-26-2007 at 01:59 PM.
The Corey Carrier episodes were very often more interesting than the Flannery episodes
I agree. I prefer them because they often took a philosophical approach to things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom train
and I actually think some of the episodes are better than the IJ films.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom train
I think the educational aspects of the film turned some/many people off. I even remember a friend at the time mentioning that he would have liked the show better if Lucas didn't try to make it "educational". Of course, that was one of the whole points of the show, which was lost on many.
It is an enlightening show, and most people don't seem to want to be enlightened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom train
The fact that Indy met a lot of historical figures seemed far-fetched to many
I've never understand how anyone could feel that way. It is the ultimate irony to call Young Indy "unrealistic".
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom train
All this being said, the same reasons that the show didn't do well are the exact reasons that I liked it. It was a completely original, big-budget historical TV show that showed the audience some of the defining and important events at the beginning of the 20th century.
Same here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom train
Watching the tele-films on DVD is probably the best way to watch the show, since they are being released in chronological order and make the most sense when viewed in that order.
Both versions of the show have their pros and cons, but (as much as it pains me to say this) for the casual or first time viewer, yes, I'd say the telefilms are the best format to see the series in.
And, given that we're talking about a general public that thinks reality shows are examples of great television, it's really no surprise YIJC is still so unknown.
Ain't it the sad truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzlor
Flannery was way too nice, dorky, squeamish, and a know it all. That probably worked best for the series, but did not fit with the movies.
I believe that had they shown more of his schooling and had gotten to the Abner episodes we would have seen a change from the Young Indy of the TV show to the Indy of the movies.
Another thing I've always wondered is why this show is still so unknown? Even to the hardcore Lucas haters (who would no doubt love to pick the series apart) this series seems to have passed under their radar. But as far as everyone else goes, I've been doing some research, and it seems as if this show was heavily promoted when it originally aired, so why do so many people (critics and internet bloggers/reviewers especially) seem to not know of this show's existence?
And it seems like whenever I bring up the show to anyone who has either never seen the show, or has heard about but never seen it, they tell me it must suck? I hate it when I bring up the show and everyone immediately dismisses it as if it was some kind of joke. I mean, I think if they actually watched the show they might think differently. What's the deal?
Another thing I've always wondered is why this show is still so unknown? Even to the hardcore Lucas haters (who would no doubt love to pick the series apart) this series seems to have passed under their radar. But as far as everyone else goes, I've been doing some research, and it seems as if this show was heavily promoted when it originally aired, so why do so many people (critics and internet bloggers/reviewers especially) seem to not know of this show's existence?
And it seems like whenever I bring up the show to anyone who has either never seen the show, or has heard about but never seen it, they tell me it must suck? I hate it when I bring up the show and everyone immediately dismisses it as if it was some kind of joke. I mean, I think if they actually watched the show they might think differently. What's the deal?
I'm trying to spread the word on my Myspace profile. I want this to be a hit at the box office. I've learned there are more fans out there than we think. We need to band together and get the word out.
I believe the series hasn't got as many admirers as it would like to have is because it's not the history that a lot of fans want for their hero. They don't want him meeting historical figures every week like Forrest Gump. They want a man of mystery, a solitary adventurer with no past. (IMO)
I believe the series hasn't got as many admirers as it would like to have is because it's not the history that a lot of fans want for their hero. They don't want him meeting historical figures every week like Forrest Gump. They want a man of mystery, a solitary adventurer with no past. (IMO)
Then I guess they should stay away from Last Crusade. I mean, Indy comes face to face with Hitler, who signs his diary, and it is revealed that Indy has a father who ignored him as a child, a mother who died during his adolescence, and Indy is revealed to have been a member of the boy scouts as a teenager. Last Crusade pretty much took away any mystery that the first two films established.
I've never seen any of the YIJC ; I'd like to , but the dvds are still a little to expensive at this point.
I noticed you said the dvds were released with the "tv-movie versions" of the episodes. For someone like me who hasn't seen any of the episodes, would you mind expanding on that point on how they are different, and what is missed/gained by watching them this way? Are all the episodes like this?
I've never seen any of the YIJC ; I'd like to , but the dvds are still a little to expensive at this point.
I noticed you said the dvds were released with the "tv-movie versions" of the episodes. For someone like me who hasn't seen any of the episodes, would you mind expanding on that point on how they are different, and what is missed/gained by watching them this way? Are all the episodes like this?
You are missing out on an amazing show!
To answer your question in regards to why people call the dvds "tv-movie versions" is the original series consisted of 45 minute episodes.Often with an 93 year old Indy re-telling the adventures of his childhood from the ages of 9 then 17-21. Later on Lucas edited episodes into the 'TV movies' you hear us refering too.For instance...The TV movie Trenches of Hell' was originaly "Somme, Early August 1916 " and "Germany, Mid-August 1916".So,Two episodes were made into one movie,Usually connected with bad bridging scene that was filmed years after the show ended.Every Old Indy bookend was deleted except for the one appearance by Harrison Ford who plays Indy at age 51 in 'Mystery of the Blues".
The first episode of the original series can be seen on youtube.Just do a search for "Young Indiana Jones: The Curse of the Jackal" It's in 12 parts I believe.Well worth the viewing,I really recomend you check it out!
The first episode of the original series can be seen on youtube.Just do a search for "Young Indiana Jones: The Curse of the Jackal" It's in 12 parts I believe.Well worth the viewing,I really recomend you check it out!
Yep, please do! The best starting point for someone not familiar with the show!
Plus, I was the one that uploaded it to youtube! So leave a friendly comment... or don't.
While I liked the show and watched it a lot when it was on tv, I completely lost interest when some Hollywood stuff was being thrown in (The Hollywood years or something) because those eps were a complete bore.
; I'd like to
, but the dvds are still a little to expensive at this point.
