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Old 02-25-2008, 04:26 PM   #1
Indy"Ale" Jones
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A lot of superstitions, "hocus-pocus"?

My wife made a good point the other day while watching TOD. TOD takes place in 1935, one year before Raiders, right? When Marcus comes to Indy's house and they have their discussion, Indy say's "what are you trying to do scare me you sound like my mother, I don't believe in a lot superstitions and hocus pocus" Hmmm well seems to me he not only was poisoned and turned evil temporarily, but I seem to remember a certain Indy shaped voodoo doll that messed him up pretty bad during the big fight. I don't know about you all but I think that would make me somewhat of a believer. Thoughts?
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:31 PM   #2
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Yeah, that's kind of a mistake on their part. The only explanation I can give is that Raiders was made first, although it doesn't take place before Temple of Doom. Not the answer you're looking for, of course.

Perhaps an answer that might work within the context of the film is that he doesn't believe in the power of God. Perhaps he views that as more of a make-believe story than the things that happened to him in Temple of Doom.
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:45 PM   #3
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Don't get me wrong, I love the movies, there are some of my favorite all time. But they could write a book about all the continuity errors that are in the trilogy. I have heard though that continuity is not an important aspect of Spielberg's directing style also.
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #4
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Just the other day I found a thread on here (can't find it now, of course) that linked to an interview with an author who had been working on a cancelled Indy comic. Anyway, the author said that apparent continuity glitch was something he was going to address, by explaining that Abner had told Indy to sort of "play it straight" when around other people. Basically, to just sort of keep quiet about the things he'd seen and experienced so that others wouldn't think he was some kind of quack.

I mean, imagine the reaction someone would have if Indy told them, "Yeah, I was India last year and these guys force-fed me this cursed blood that possessed me and made me one of them to help in their sacrifies to Kali in this secret underground temple where they ripped out peoples' hearts and lowered them into hot lava pits while chanting and banging on drums."
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:58 PM   #5
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Was it this interview? http://www.theraider.net/features/in...gh_fleming.php I'm pretty sure it is. Thanks to Finn directing me to the page.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:12 PM   #6
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Yup, that's it! Thanks for the link.

The specific point I was talking about was this one...

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Well, we were gonna have it that Abner taught Indy to keep a 'sceptical' point of view when in professional company. You know, 'keep this stuff under your hat, people will think you're crazy...etc'
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:15 AM   #7
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This has always bugged me a little, too. But I've always explained it (to myself, that is) as Indy chalking a lot of what happens in TOD up to the influence of the blood of Kali, which I assume is some sort of hallucinogen. It really doesn't exactly work to explain away all of the various supernatural elements, but I figure that by a year later (the time of ROTLA), when he thinks about the events of TOD, he sort of thinks "man, it was pretty crazy, the things I thought were happening." Works for me...
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:20 AM   #8
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I always wondered this also.
But, than again. It's just a movie, I suppose.
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:26 AM   #9
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Everything that happened in TOD can potentially be explained by science. The blood of Kali could be a hallucinogen, similar to the zombie potions in voodoo. The heart-ripping...well,idk. But really there isn't a lot of "magic" in TOD when you think about it.
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:31 AM   #10
James
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It's similar to the way Indy tries to repeat the 'shooting the swordsman' joke, even though it technically hasn't happened yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers did bring up these continuity issues at the time. But ultimately, I doubt Lucas or Spielberg really lost much sleep over any of them. They may have enjoyed the irony, since the old serials were full of 'cheats' and continuity issues.
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perhilion
Everything that happened in TOD can potentially be explained by science. The blood of Kali could be a hallucinogen, similar to the zombie potions in voodoo. The heart-ripping...well,idk. But really there isn't a lot of "magic" in TOD when you think about it.

Actually for all Indy knew, the heart-ripping thing was just a very convincing magic trick (obviously we the audience could see it a lot more clearly than him).

In general though, I think he probably regarded his experiences in India the same way Scully regarded all her supernatural experiences on The X-Files-- as either some kind of strange hallucination or unexplained scientific phenomena. Or that his mind was just playing tricks on him.
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:52 AM   #12
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If Indy thought the heart-ripping was just a trick, why did he try so hard to cover his own heart while climbing the bridge?

Also, did you ever notice how Short Round was the one who gave Mola Ram the idea of going for Indy's heart?
"Cover your heart Indy! Cover your heart!" Then Mola Ram, was like "Hey, good idea!"
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:47 AM   #13
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To me, the hardest part to explain is why Mola Ran fell off the bridge. I mean, Indy could think that his vision of the Sankara stone catching fire was a vision or whatever, but what would he think about why Mola Ram ALSO assumed it was on fire? Shared trip? Both so hopped up on Kali blood they saw the same thing?
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:52 PM   #14
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Huh. I always attributed this to Indy being somewhat cynical and in denial. Similar to how Max McCoy described it in one of his interviews. When Indy's in the Kali cult he darn well believes in magic and mythology, but as soon as he's back in normal civilization he becomes a skeptical scientist again.

You even see come of this in Crusade when he treats Donovan's story of the grail with a lot of skepticism until the proof starts coming out.

My take on it has always just been that it's part of Indy's character. He thinks of himself as a completely rational man of science and as such is skeptical of the actual powers of the relics he finds. But, once he's actually confronted with them, he definitely does believe in them and his knowledge gives him the power to survive (the Shankara stone chant, not looking at the Ark, etc). Then, once he's back in polite society he just kind of ignores what he's seen, because in many ways it invalidates his teaching of archeology (folklore as the greatest danger to archeology, etc, etc).
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:04 PM   #15
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There's no point in trying to find an "in world" explanation that makes sense. There isn't one.

The makers didn't know at the time that they would be doing a prequel to Raiders. Thats it.
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
There's no point in trying to find an "in world" explanation that makes sense. There isn't one.

The makers didn't know at the time that they would be doing a prequel to Raiders. Thats it.

No, there's no need to find an explanation.
But, it's a fun thing to do nontheless.
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonsome_Drifter
No, there's no need to find an explanation.
But, it's a fun thing to do nontheless.

Well its impossible to find one that makes sense anyway.

Indy being forgetting about what he saw, Indy being in denial about what he saw or dismissing it as having a good explanation, all of those don't work.

Its a line that suffered in hindsight because of lack of foresight by the writers, thats all. It doesn't make sense in any way.
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
Well its impossible to find one that makes sense anyway.

Indy being forgetting about what he saw, Indy being in denial about what he saw or dismissing it as having a good explanation, all of those don't work.

Its a line that suffered in hindsight because of lack of foresight by the writers, thats all. It doesn't make sense in any way.

I know that it's impossible to find any reason why Indy said that.
But, to some; they take the movie very seriously and enjoy filling in the plot holes, and small things. It eases our brains when we watch the movies again for the 2,000th time.
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:52 PM   #19
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I wouldn't call it "impossible" at all. I know there have been nights (in college, not recently) where I would be out drinking and "remember" something happening, only to be told the next day that what actually happened was quite different. And that was drinking only beer. Who knows what the Black Blood of Kali would do to you? After all, when all of the stuff w/ Mola Ram on the bridge was going on, it really was only a little while after Indy snapped out of it. So maybe by the next day, he was like "did that really all happen like that?" And then a year later? Who knows. Or maybe the village elder (or even Shiva) put some sort of "whammy" on him to make the whole thing fuzzy in his memory.

There's a lot of ways to explain his change in attitude between movies, IMO.

Heck, given his dad's obsession with the Grail, maybe he's particularly disdainful of Christian-based "hocus pocus." You never know.
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Old 05-10-2008, 06:23 PM   #20
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Indy ALWAYS starts out the skeptic. The Ark is hocus pocus, the stones are merely good luck rocks that lead to fortune and glory, and the grail is a bedtime story. I'm sure the new one will follow a similar path. One legend being true doesn't mean they all are. We cannot afford to take mythology at face value!
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Old 05-10-2008, 06:38 PM   #21
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This is my reasoning

Well, I've said this before on similar threads and I think it works. Indiana was a man of the 1930's, Spiritualism had just gone out. It was considered uneducated to believe in such "childish" things. The common answer to such "hocus-pocus" was "If I can see it and touch it then it is real."

Although mystical things had happened to him, Indy brushed them off as being "explainable through logical occurance".
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:03 PM   #22
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What I wanna know is why Temple of Doom was made into a prequel anyway. Apart from the title saying the date, I can't think of anything in it that suggests it takes place prior to Raiders, and in fact, it was years before I even figured out it's supposed to be a prequel.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshmeister
What I wanna know is why Temple of Doom was made into a prequel anyway. Apart from the title saying the date, I can't think of anything in it that suggests it takes place prior to Raiders, and in fact, it was years before I even figured out it's supposed to be a prequel.

LMAO!
I'm right there with you. When I was a wee lad, my dad first got me into Indiana Jones. I never knew ToD was a prequel either (Hey, I was like 7, I did not read the text that said the year!).
My dad told me it took place before Raiders.

Like you said, they could have made it a true sequel taking place AFTER Raiders.
It would have made more sense that way IMO.
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:36 AM   #24
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Well, we were gonna have it that Abner taught Indy to keep a 'sceptical' point of view when in professional company. You know, 'keep this stuff under your hat, people will think you're crazy...etc'
Well, Marcus isn't "professional company"... he is a close friend, a confident. If Indy can't talk with him about his true feelings, then he almost has nobody else.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:10 PM   #25
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The thing I find a little bit of a struggle about that bit of dialogue from Indy is the reference to his mother. From what I heard, Indy's Mum died of scarlett fever when he was a child, and that was one of the things that drove the wedge between himself and his father, and while I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but to refer to her in such an offhand, half joking way doesn't seem to fit in with what we presume to be a particularly painful memory for Indy. Or maybe I'm just talking out of my bum.
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