Anyone Else Worried About the Inclusion of Marion?
Alright I was going over Indy 4 in my head recently: so I was thinking alright the story sounds cool, Harrison is back and looks the part, action looks good, Marion is....hmmm. At that point I started thinking about it, and I became unsure that Marion's inclusion is going to be a positive aspect of the movie.
Alright, everyone loves it when classic characters are brought back into the sequel of a great movie (yet for some reason Salah isn't back; RIP Denholm Elliot), and so based on that I thought a cool cameo by Marion or even Willie Scott would add some spice to the movie. But as we learned more about it we saw that Marion is actually a key character in the story, and that she even gets some action sequences with her driving the truck and swinging to kick that guy into the glass (yeah I'm pretty sure that's her). At first i was cool with this notion, but then i started thinking on some things:
If the story we all think is going to happen happens, then that places Marion in the role of Mutt's mother. And if what we think completely comes to fruition, then that places Indy into the role of Mutt's father. So what do we have now? A family adventure! I loved the Mummy and Brenden Fraiser as O'Connol (or however you spell it), but when they brought in his son and it turned into a family story, I thought the franchise lost some of its excitement. And I mean come on...is such a style Indy?? Does he seem like the type of guy to adventure around with his wife/strong love interest, put her in danger, and then also be chilling with his son? Now granted we don't know Mutt to be Indy's son or not, but all that I'm saying is that if that does become the case, then I think it will be hamper on the magic of Indiana Jones.
My main concern is with the family aspect. However based on what I've seen in the trailer, and the type of action that Marion is involved in, I'm not sure if it'll be convincing enough for me. Granted she gave Indy a good slug in the bar, however her performance in the street fight (she was really giving it to the guy with the frying pan huh? NOT!) questions her abilities. Personally it seems that Willie Scott contributed more violence than Marion did.
Alright, everyone loves it when classic characters are brought back into the sequel of a great movie (yet for some reason Salah isn't back; RIP Denholm Elliot), and so based on that I thought a cool cameo by Marion or even Willie Scott would add some spice to the movie.
I think TOD makes it pretty obvious that Willie Scott means very little to Indy in the grand scheme of things. She's "just another girlfriend". Having her in there I think would be unnecessary. Marion on the other hand, is someone that truly fits Indy's personality and is the only person he's had anything even resembling a long-term relationship with. So I hope the film resolves that story line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grave Robber
If the story we all think is going to happen happens, then that places Marion in the role of Mutt's mother. And if what we think completely comes to fruition, then that places Indy into the role of Mutt's father. So what do we have now? A family adventure! I loved the Mummy and Brenden Fraiser as O'Connol (or however you spell it), but when they brought in his son and it turned into a family story, I thought the franchise lost some of its excitement. And I mean come on...is such a style Indy?? Does he seem like the type of guy to adventure around with his wife/strong love interest, put her in danger, and then also be chilling with his son? Now granted we don't know Mutt to be Indy's son or not, but all that I'm saying is that if that does become the case, then I think it will be hamper on the magic of Indiana Jones.
My main concern is with the family aspect.
Well, there are nearly twenty years between LC and KOTCS. A person can change their habits and way of thinking during that time. I remember Frank Marshall saying a while back that the Indy of 1957 is a wiser man than the Indy of 1938, and has learned from some of his mistakes.
I for one never questioned her abilities... She's easily the most talented and fun Indy gal of the franchise. Her coming back makes Kotks stand less on its own, but that's the only less good thing I could say about it. She's incredibly perfect for an Indy film, and I think there's still aspects to be explored about her relationship with Indy, since she's his true love.
I couldn't be happier that marion is back. My only worry is that she won't be in it enough! I always thought that Indy and Marion should end up together.
I don't know what you mean about Willie being more violent..the complaint most people have is that most of what willie does in tod is scream..don't get me wrong, I love Willie too, but Marion is the toughest of the indy women, and has always been my favorite.
Oh and if you watch the trailer again, it's clear that it's indy swinging to kick the soldier through the glass.
It's kind of similar on how I felt going into (and leaving for that matter) Episode I of Star Wars. Before, I just knew of a bad ass guy who's part machine who is the toughest sonuvab*tch in the galaxy. When we saw him as a kid - it changed the character a bit. The film turned a little "family-oriented" for the sake of money and Lucas's hopeless desire to pen a background story to one of Hollywood's greatest screen villains of all-time. But at what cost? Sure, a new generation of kids fell in love with Star Wars...but the diehards turned up their nose at a whiny on-screen brat.
Previously, we have seen Indy as that tough guy who's traveled to all ends of the earth to achieve his academic or economic-related goal. We saw him as a rogue, a rebel, a man among men. With his conquests, he has come across a number of women who (at least some of us) thought of Indy as quite the "player" - perhaps the player and adventurer we all secretly hoped we could be.
Now Lucas has to put Indy as 20 years older. While we all want to cling to Indy as this huge childhood hero (as he will always be) ...obviously Lucas is in a predicament. Would it make sense to portray Indy as a 65 year old guy who never made anything out of his life other than archaeology? Or should we make the character more human and realistic - thus assuming Indy would have "settled down" somewhere along the way?
Obviously, I think the latter choice is the right choice - as did Lucas and everyone else who has already posted in this thread. But you're right, Grave robber.....I think we will see a more "family adventure Indy" this time.
While I love Marion (and would have chosen her over Willie and Elsa as well for a return of any female character) - I utlimately think her placement in the script is both essential and destructive to the Indy film legacy.
I don't worry about Marion in the ways described above (I briefly scanned). What gives me slight worry is the fact that Karen Allen hasn't been acting much in the last several years, and when she has they have been small productions. I just hope she doesn't pale, acting-wise, alongside the likes of John Hurt, Cate Blanchett, Shia, etc.--the people who are either veterans (Hurt), in their prime (Blanchett) or at least active and current to the scene (Shia).
She looks great though, and Spielberg seems happy with her return.
I don't worry about Marion in the ways described above (I briefly scanned). What gives me slight worry is the fact that Karen Allen hasn't been acting much in the last several years, and when she has they have been small productions. I just hope she doesn't pale, acting-wise, alongside the likes of John Hurt, Cate Blanchett, Shia, etc.--the people who are either veterans (Hurt), in their prime (Blanchett) or at least active and current to the scene (Shia).
She was only in small productions (or at least very small roles) before she did Raiders, so nothing much has changed now did there?
It's kind of similar on how I felt going into (and leaving for that matter) Episode I of Star Wars. Before, I just knew of a bad ass guy who's part machine who is the toughest sonuvab*tch in the galaxy. When we saw him as a kid - it changed the character a bit. The film turned a little "family-oriented" for the sake of money and Lucas's hopeless desire to pen a background story to one of Hollywood's greatest screen villains of all-time. But at what cost? Sure, a new generation of kids fell in love with Star Wars...but the diehards turned up their nose at a whiny on-screen brat.
Previously, we have seen Indy as that tough guy who's traveled to all ends of the earth to achieve his academic or economic-related goal. We saw him as a rogue, a rebel, a man among men. With his conquests, he has come across a number of women who (at least some of us) thought of Indy as quite the "player" - perhaps the player and adventurer we all secretly hoped we could be.
Now Lucas has to put Indy as 20 years older. While we all want to cling to Indy as this huge childhood hero (as he will always be) ...obviously Lucas is in a predicament. Would it make sense to portray Indy as a 65 year old guy who never made anything out of his life other than archaeology? Or should we make the character more human and realistic - thus assuming Indy would have "settled down" somewhere along the way?
Obviously, I think the latter choice is the right choice - as did Lucas and everyone else who has already posted in this thread. But you're right, Grave robber.....I think we will see a more "family adventure Indy" this time.
While I love Marion (and would have chosen her over Willie and Elsa as well for a return of any female character) - I utlimately think her placement in the script is both essential and destructive to the Indy film legacy.
I think you summed my thoughts up perfectly. Ha better than me!
It's kind of similar on how I felt going into (and leaving for that matter) Episode I of Star Wars. Before, I just knew of a bad ass guy who's part machine who is the toughest sonuvab*tch in the galaxy. When we saw him as a kid - it changed the character a bit. The film turned a little "family-oriented" for the sake of money and Lucas's hopeless desire to pen a background story to one of Hollywood's greatest screen villains of all-time. But at what cost? Sure, a new generation of kids fell in love with Star Wars...but the diehards turned up their nose at a whiny on-screen brat.
Previously, we have seen Indy as that tough guy who's traveled to all ends of the earth to achieve his academic or economic-related goal. We saw him as a rogue, a rebel, a man among men. With his conquests, he has come across a number of women who (at least some of us) thought of Indy as quite the "player" - perhaps the player and adventurer we all secretly hoped we could be.
Don't forget that LC and YIJC are very family-oriented at times.
Yeah I should've mentioned LC cause I knew someone would bring that up. As Lao said it is "family oriented" but on the father son level. Indy was still Indy, and even his father was like Indy (I mean they both slept with Elsa).
With the inclusion of a wife and son aspect, Indy's character would be completely changes and become more "soft." As Lao also said that would be a destructive element.
I didn't watch YIJC either. Who would want to watch something about Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford in it? And of course that was "family oriented;" it was about him growing up. Of course the family will be cited.
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I think we already know my stance on this. Those who been here long enough, would know that I have continuously voiced that Marion should be brought back... What has changed? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I'm glad she's back. Karen deserves to be there. Just because she's been in small productions or small parts DOESN'T mean her acting ability is paler than Blanchett. Allen may not have had choice for bigger films for other reasons, lifestyle choice, people to work with, etc. Marion, I feel was always due to come back. That was the impression I got from Raiders. Family doesn't necessarily soften one. Family isn't always so warm and cosy. It might be at the end of the movie, but throughout? Who knows?
I really have no opinion of Marion. In the trailer she isn't doing much. I don't know how she applies to the storyline. I'm not even sure if Mutt really is Indy's son so I really can't speculate all that much.
She kind of seems unnecessary to me. But for Indy to have a love interest at 50 something (late 50s), it would be best if it was someone his own age... or near it.... and it would be better if it was someone we knew from the past. Which is the main reason I think Marion is back. And why Marion, specifically? ... because she always seemed to be the one most like Indy. The one who fit with him best.
*shrug* I will probably have an opinion after I see the second trailer. Whenever that happens. But it's so close now to the opening of the movie... that I'm less worried about trailers now. I just wanna see the damn movie.
Allen hasn't been in many films lately as she's been running a company and other pastimes, like teaching acting in college. I'm pretty sure the latter's kept her at least in some kind of fit to handle herself in KotCS.
They're both tied to each other in chairs, when Indy says "How do you know that?" (or something similar) His Dad replies, "She talks in her sleep" with a smug glint in his eye (referring to Elsa).
They're both tied to each other in chairs, when Indy says "How do you know that?" (or something similar) His Dad replies, "She talks in her sleep" with a smug glint in his eye (referring to Elsa).
and of course this classic scene...
Quote:
INDY
(meaning ELSA)
That's not all we shared. It's
disgraceful. You're old enough to
be her fa---er, her grandfather!
I think we already know my stance on this. Those who been here long enough, would know that I have continuously voiced that Marion should be brought back... What has changed? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I'm glad she's back. Karen deserves to be there. Just because she's been in small productions or small parts DOESN'T mean her acting ability is paler than Blanchett. Allen may not have had choice for bigger films for other reasons, lifestyle choice, people to work with, etc. Marion, I feel was always due to come back. That was the impression I got from Raiders. Family doesn't necessarily soften one. Family isn't always so warm and cosy. It might be at the end of the movie, but throughout? Who knows?
I agree, just because it's a "reunion" doesn't mean it will be all warm and fuzzy! Let's not forget, this is the same woman who greeted Indy in Raiders with a solid right to the jaw! I wouldn't doubt it if we see a lot more of that side of Marion in KOTCS, especially if she has to guard her territory and or protect her kid, against a certain Russian femme fatale. There was no other woman in Raiders for her to contend with, this will be a first, and I'm sure sparks will fly!
I'm glad Marion's back, it only makes sense that Indy would end up with her. At near 60 years of age in KOTCS, he can't play the rogue treasure hunter forever. He's going to eventually want to settle down to some degree, and take a bit of a rest. If it wasn't the years, but the mileage back in 1936, I would think 20 years later they'll have taken their toll substantially more.
Personally, Karen Allen's return as Marion is easily the most exciting aspect of this new film. It's a stroke of casting genius to bring her back and put her right into the action. She looks fantastic, and will certianly hold her own with the rest of the cast. She's a seasoned vet.
She helped make the first film special - and the sequels suffered greatly from her absence.
And I have absolutely NO problem with this turning into a "family" adventure, sounds like fun to me. The entire first movie was "warm and fuzzy" as far as I'm concerned. That's what we love about it - it's like wearing a cozy sweater.
I really hope Mutt is their "love child" and that Indy and Marion end up together by the end of the film. Perfect way to round out the story - and it would in no way diminish Indy's cool factor.
I've literally just finished re-watching Raiders, with a particular eye on Karen Allen.
She was fantastic, I'm very excited about seeing the 'girl' in that movie now as a 'Woman'. I think she'll have an enormous amount to give as an actress and as Marion.
She unlike other ''Indy Girls'' was intrinsic to the plot and Indys motivations in the film.
It will be very interesting to see where their relationship is now 20yrs on.
Rather than a predictable rehashing of the "years/mileage" line, why not rehash the LC gag with Indy and Henry sleeping with the same woman? Indy and Mutt could even have a witty conversation about it. To quote Short Round, "Maybe he like older women?"
Marion had the toughest personality of all the love interests though. She was much less irritating in the action scenes than Willie Scott.
To answer your original question, given Ford's age, Marion seems like a more appropriate love interest. In A View to a Kill, a 60 year old Roger Moore was paired with a 30 year old Tanya Roberts and the age difference alone made the romance cringeworthy, nevermind the fact that Roberts was basically a Willie Scott character. If this is going to be Indy's last adventure it would be more fitting to feature the only love interest who had a convincing romance with him.
I'm glad she's back. Karen deserves to be there. Just because she's been in small productions or small parts DOESN'T mean her acting ability is paler than Blanchett. Allen may not have had choice for bigger films for other reasons, lifestyle choice, people to work with, etc. Marion, I feel was always due to come back. That was the impression I got from Raiders. Family doesn't necessarily soften one. Family isn't always so warm and cosy. It might be at the end of the movie, but throughout? Who knows?
