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Old 06-07-2008, 03:05 PM   #1
SterankoII
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KOTCS had the most brutal fist fight

I think KOTCS had the most brutal fist fight of the Indys. The previous fistfights with Pat Roach were always kind of funny and played for laughs. Like when Bond fought Oddjob in Goldfinger. The humor was in Indy fighting a much bigger and stronger opponent who was seemingly impervious to any punch Indy threw. Indy could punch as hard as he could whoever Pat was playing and it wouldn't phase him. Pat Roach also had a much more jovial personality even when he was slavedriving children! Dovenchko is less lovable, although I did like it when he got fed up with the family squabble in the truck and yelled "Ah just shut the hell up!" In KOTCS the fight in the beginning near the rocket sled was kind of funny with the swinging chains and when they were both accidentally launched. Whether it was intentional or not though the fight in the jungle seemed more serious. Maybe it's because it's not as funny seeing someone younger beat up an older guy. Also Indy's reaction to Dovchenko being killed seemed much colder. Also people complain about most of the giant ants being CG and not real but what struck me was where the previous were mostly there to gross and creep out the audience. The snakes, bugs, and rats in the other movies never killed anybody. So both these kind of required Indy scenes are darker and combined in this movie. That's not a criticism just an observation.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:07 PM   #2
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Yeah the fist fight here was just as good as the one with Pat Roach. I still like the Indy vs Nazi/Vogel fight the best though.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #3
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Nah, for me the most "brutal" fight is still the one on the conveyor belt with the Thuggee. Indy was getting completely pummeled in that scene, and him and the Thuggee were throwing everything they HAD at each other. Not to mention the fact Indy was shrieking in pain through the whole sequence because of the voodoo doll.

The Indy 4 fight basically consisted of Indy and the Russian standing in one place and taking turns punching each other. Plus too much of the focus of that scene was on the CGI ants swarming around everywhere; the fight seemed like something that was just happening in the background.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:48 PM   #4
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I heard a few members in the audience I was with go "eww" after Indy punched the guy really hard two times then he just stands there before blood starts pumping from his nose. The CGI ant kill would been horrible if the CGI itself wasnt so rubbish.
But no, the most brutal fight is still definately the big thugee in Temple of Doom. A PICK AXE AND A SAW ARE INVOLVED

EDIT: AND A HAMMER!
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:50 PM   #5
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Are you kidding?? More brutal than the Pat Roach fights?? LOL there was no point during the fist fights in Indy 4 that I thought he was going to lose. As James said they just stood there and took turns punching each other.

Plus I mean look how easily Indy won: just had to take some hits, then get in a few elbows and the guys falls down as if he was knocked out, and then the ants did the rest. In the original three, and as you said, Indy could hit Pat as much as he wanted and it wouldn't do anything. He had to use wit and keenness in fighting and defeat his enemy using his surroundings.

And as I said, during no time did I think Indy was going to die or lose. In ToD you have WAY more times when you think Indy could be on the verge of defeat.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:54 PM   #6
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I agree SterankoII, the sounds alone by Ben Burtt were even more brutal then in the original films. Each punch had the sound of crunching bone that was really uncomfortable to hear! Then to watch Dovchenko get a mouthful of swarming ants was a pretty nasty finish! In my opinion to be eaten alive is worse then the fates of Pat Roach's German Mechanic, Giant Thuggee Guard, and Michael Byrne's Vogel!

I really don't get the argument that Indy never seems in danger in KOTCS, because does anyone actually believe Indy is going to be killed off by Spielberg and Lucas? It's a pretty safe bet he'll get in over his head in all of the films, but he'll always find a way out!
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:57 PM   #7
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The Indy vs. Pat Roach fights are some of the greatest moments in film history. I would hardly consider the Dovchenko fight a fight. It was just two people wailing on each other for a couple of minutes admist bad CGI ants. The fight with Dovchenko wasn't intense at all and it was poorly directed.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolaRam2
The Indy vs. Pat Roach fights are some of the greatest moments in film history. I would hardly consider the Dovchenko fight a fight. It was just two people wailing on each other for a couple of minutes admist bad CGI ants. The fight with Dovchenko wasn't intense at all and it was poorly directed.
I agree it may not be the best orchestrated fight, that imo goes to the Raiders Pat Roach/Ford brawl. But still, it's effective in a brutal way!

The TOD Thugge Guard fight I always found tedious because there's too much going on, Willie screaming on the sideline, Shorty fighting with the Maharaja, voodoo dolls, etc...The Vogel fight was better, but once again too chaotic, not enough one on one fighting! Half the time Indy is dealing with other soldiers, or hanging for dear life on the side of the tank. Personally I prefer when Indy dukes it out with one main bad guy, and maybe has to fend off another lesser baddie as well. Raiders is the perfect example of quality over quantity, as the films progressed they had to throw everything but the kitchen sink into the battles.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolaRam2
The Indy vs. Pat Roach fights are some of the greatest moments in film history. I would hardly consider the Dovchenko fight a fight. It was just two people wailing on each other for a couple of minutes admist bad CGI ants. The fight with Dovchenko wasn't intense at all and it was poorly directed.


Agreed. I think they were striving for as good a fight as the Ford/Roach one from Raiders, and it just wasn't anywhere near as good.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:00 PM   #10
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KotCS brought it back to formula as far as the one-on-one fist fight was concerned. Indy pulled some of the same moves he performed in Raiders. I was very happy to see they were true to the character when choreographing the fight.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:05 PM   #11
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Although I don't know if I like it better than the other films' "henchmen fights," I did think it was a really cool scene. As noted, the punches sounded extra "crunchier;" some sounded down right jaw-shattering. I love that right backhand-left hook combo Indy does that's used in the ads.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #12
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The German mechanic fight scene is the best. It's has the most tension and humor of all of the fight scenes, but the Dvochenko fight is #2 I think.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:11 PM   #13
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I liked the double locked fists golf swing punch Indy does. He does it in Raiders too.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:14 PM   #14
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During the bout with Dovchenko, Marion should have been there, too...

"Indy, duck! Right step, block! Upper cut! No holding! Dovchenko, disengage!"
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:29 PM   #15
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Rank of best fight scenes in the franchise IMO:

1. Fight against big Thuggee in TOD. Great moments. Great music. Good balance of drama, tension, humour, Indy music, and choreography. And to top it off...great way to kill off the bad guy.

2. Fight against German Mechanic in Raiders. Again, great fight. Probably had the most "tension" and was perfect. Love it when Indy just throws it all on the guy and he ends up bloody. Liked how Indy was kinda manhandled a bit. Great fight choreography. Great way to kill off the bad guy.

3. Bar fight in Raiders. Again, great balance of humour and raw fist fighiting with great stuntwork. Just all around an awesome action scene!

4. Fight with Mola Ram on broken bridge. First off...great drama as Indy breaks the bridge in two! An iconic moment in the franchise definately! Loved the tension and drama as the confrontation builds to when Indy and Mola Ram eventually do fight. Love how Mola Ram uses his thuggees to try and get Indy off the bridge. Great music to boot! Decent actual fight between the two, albeit I didnt like the way Mola Ram just kinda grabbed the rock and fell...which is why it is lower on my list.

5. Fight with Dovenchko. Good punches. Like how Indy does take some punches here too. But something is definately missing from this fight. Not sure if the ants were distracting or not, but something felt "off" about the fight. Kinda a "meh" way for the bad guy to die off...maybe the CGI was an issue...not sure.

6. Fight with Vogel on the Tank in LC. An utterly horrendous fight!! The Tank chase was cool, but everything else on the Tank was slapstick to the Nth degree. Watch the scene how Vogel has Indy in a headlock while Indy is saving his Dad. Watch how half-assed Vogel punches Indy on the side of his stomach. Far too lighthearted, and Vogel is a weak-ass villian anyways. Ugh. The worst of the series.

Note: I am discounting the Truck Chase fight since it was just a few punches thrown. If the entire Truck chase including Indy being dragged underneath and behind the truck is counted...then that would be #1.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandiegojones
The German mechanic fight scene is the best. It's has the most tension and humor of all of the fight scenes, but the Dvochenko fight is #2 I think.

I have to agree... The Raiders German mechanic fight has it all. I would put TOD firmly at the bottom as it's so improbable with the voodoo doll and the fact that Indy is going under the rock crusher for an age... Also, why would Indy try and save the Pat Roach character at the end (since he quite happily kills all the others)?
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:37 PM   #17
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German Mechanic scene hands down. When Indy lets loose and busts up Pat's nose just before he gets it diced in the propeller is brutal. I love the fight in TOD as well but it's more comical until he gets steamrolled.
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:01 PM   #18
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Yeah, I hate the fight in TOD. I hate how all this crap was going on at the same time, plus how Indy would be 1 second from being killed, then magically move back two feet for 20 seconds.

The only thing I don't like about the Vogel fight was those half-assed punches he throws to Indy's midsection. Everything else was awesome.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:26 PM   #19
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As an aside, I did quite like the one-two same direction punches that Indy does in KOTCS. The one where he's pivoting to his right and sort of backhand punches with his right then in the same motion does a quick followup with his left. Can't recall off-hand if he does that exact move in earlier movies but I'll of course have to go watch all 3 back to back immediately... just to be sure, you understand.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:30 PM   #20
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The Dovenchenko fight is a joke. Left hook... right hook... left hook. Repeat. There was no spontaneous improvisation like the Pat Roach fights. And the fact that old Indy doesn't even get his ass kicked like he did against Pat says just how lazy it was.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Spalko
The Dovenchenko fight is a joke. Left hook... right hook... left hook. Repeat. There was no spontaneous improvisation like the Pat Roach fights. And the fact that old Indy doesn't even get his ass kicked like he did against Pat says just how lazy it was.

It wasn't left hook, right hook. Indy got held in a head lock of sorts, punched in the back of the head to the ground, pulled up off the floor by his ear, at which point he crawled and pretended to surrender (similar to the way he did when he threw the sand in the German Mechanics eyes) and hit Dovenchenko with a good sized log, at which point (as Dovenchenko fell to his knees because Indy hit him in the stomach with the log), Indy kicked him in the face, Indy then splits the log over Dovenchenko's head (which didn't hurt him at all) as he got up, punched him hard three times in the face which knocks him down at which point he's devoured by the ants.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:07 PM   #22
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Dovechenko must really be a wuss if he can get his ass kicked by a smaller old guy. At least with Pat you knew Indy didn't stand a chance against him. He was totally outmatched. He always barely survived by the skin of his teeth. Now I'm supposed to believe that some 7 foot tall Eastern Bloc Ruskie gets his ass handed to him by a meager 65 year-old part-time teacher with a log? Give me a break.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:17 PM   #23
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There was something quite disgusting about Dovchenko's sickeningly pale face just before he collapses to the ground. Nasty.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salacious
Note: I am discounting the Truck Chase fight since it was just a few punches thrown. If the entire Truck chase including Indy being dragged underneath and behind the truck is counted...then that would be #1.

I know it wasn't a traditional kind of fight, but it still WAS pretty damn brutal. Those two were kicking and punching the crap out of each other, and it went on for quite a while too. And how can you not love Indy slamming that guy's head repeatedly into the dashboard?

Then Indy throws him out the window and runs him over with the big ass truck!!

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think that fight probably tops the one with the mechanic. I mean, the mechanic was just some guy who was standing in Indy's way. But Indy and that driver really had it IN for each other. The look of fury and determination on Indy's face throughout that whole sequence is just awesome to see.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #25
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Not to mention getting punched repeatedly in a gunshot wound on the arm. That is brutal.
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