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Old 04-07-2009, 05:25 PM   #1
RaiderMitch
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Was anyone let down that Indy dumped a pregnant Marion at the altar?

I know he didn't know he had a son but I must admit I always thought the two continued with a relationship after "Raiders" and for years to follow (ok maybe Elsa was just a "ship that passed in the night"). I was just watching Crystal Skull and thought it would have been nice to show that the intrepid and fearless hero was afraid of "commitment" as much as snakes... and remember that would have been the second time Indy ran out on Marion... she must have been drawn to "bad boys" like Padme to Anakin. . .
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:40 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Mitchell Hallock
I know he didn't know he had a son but I must admit I always thought the two continued with a relationship after "Raiders" and for years to follow
Well, they kind of did (in the Marvel comics anyways...where SHE leaves HIM). I bet you $100 that Violet, Indyologist and Ronicle are going to chime in. Let down? I thought it was very in-character for the adult Indy.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:34 PM   #3
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DING-DING! I'M HERE.


Yeah, I have to agree that the fear of commitment might have been nice to have featured in the film more prominently (I believe we do get that sense that Indy has commitment problems when he says "we knew it wasn't going to work" in the truck). Well then... Why the heck did he propose if he decided a week before the wedding that it wasn't going to work? Was it a case of cold feet? Perhaps it was Marion who proposed!

To me, maybe there was something that pulled Indy away from Marion, I would suggest the lure of some prized artifact and the realisation that he has responsibilities should he get married to Marion. So yeah, the freedom issue starts to come into play. It was either going to be the artifact or Marion: that time it was the artifact aka his freedom.

Indy is quite contradictory to an extent. There are some responsibilities that he will live up to (e.g. being a spy/soldier in YIJC) and then there are some that he's afraid of (e.g. facing up to his father, a relationship that is reconcilled in LC). The responsibilities that Indy doesn't seem to take on so easily tend to be more personal and affect him directly. Marion is the opposite; she takes personal responsibility far more easily than the ones that Indy lives up to (which is why as far as I'm concerned she wears the pants in the relationship).

That's my thoughts for now. Let me think about it a bit more.

Ok, I thought a bit more....

I think Marion should have told him about it and perhaps that would have allowed a wedding to happen. But how long would it have lasted really? Marion would have been very suspicious of Indy in terms of whether he had married her for love or he had married her just on the basis of knocking her up and also during WW2 especially, he could have had a 'ship that passed in the night', which was pretty common during WW2, which would have ended in divorce. Sure, it's sad to think he dumped her at a week before the wedding but without knowledge of her pregnancy, it's not as bad in my point of view. And perhaps Marion might not have known a week before the wedding that she was pregnant. She might have known a couple weeks later and since she didn't know where he went and that he had left her, didn't bother pursuing him.

Last edited by Violet : 04-07-2009 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:23 PM   #4
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It would have been funny to see Marion sock Indy when she first saw him in KOTCS.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:29 PM   #5
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I believe that the way Marion is so blindly in love wit Indy took her out of character. I think it would've been cooler, if Indy went like "They all had the same problem...they weren't you." Then Marion would've gone like

"Well F... you! You should have thought about that earlier."

"We'll talk about this later. We've got bigger problems right now!"

Then as the movie progresses Indy tries to make her fall for him again. Then SHE would've been the one in control. But NO! She just grins!!! And that's it! He is prefect again! If he wants to, he could do the exact same thing again and it will become a living hell for her all over again! She had a damn good, really good life after he left?????!! The movie states otherwise.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:48 PM   #6
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Good points, all of you... You really hit the nail on the head.

As far as I'm concerned, Marion was wasted in KotCS. What I liked so much about the Darabont script was that not only their relationship the heart of the movie, but the tone was that Indy had to EARN Marion back -- and not just by making some wisecrack one-liner.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam McDaniel
Good points, all of you... You really hit the nail on the head.

As far as I'm concerned, Marion was wasted in KotCS. What I liked so much about the Darabont script was that not only their relationship the heart of the movie, but the tone was that Indy had to EARN Marion back -- and not just by making some wisecrack one-liner.

Could someone post a link so I can take a look at that Darabont script? I want to see for myself how Indy had to earn her back-- which makes way more sense. Thanks in advance.

So Marion was pregnant when she and Indy were originally going to get married? How far along was she? Did she know she was pregnant? I'll chime in here in more detail at another time...
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Well, they kind of did (in the Marvel comics anyways...where SHE leaves HIM). I bet you $100 that Violet, Indyologist and Ronicle are going to chime in. Let down? I thought it was very in-character for the adult Indy.

I can't not jump into this one!

Anyhow, I was upset that Indy left her a week before the wedding, but I think he did it because he "didn't want to hurt her" like he said in the truck, I think he was in love with her all along but he realized he would make a terrible husband for her, running out on an adventure all the time, and I don't think either one of them knew she was pregnant, I think she probably found out after he left. Although Indy is just trying to make himself feel better, saying he left her so he wouldn't hurt her, what he really did was choose to be selfish and take adventure over being a husband for Marion. I think when he was getting on that train in kotcs he was really regretting that decision, that's what I loved so much about the wedding, because his life had a taken a complete turn from what it was when he was getting on that train, thinking he had nothing, and then getting a second chance! I know though that if Marion had written him back telling him about the baby, he would have come back to her right away.

and I hear so many people complain about Marion being out of character because she swoons at him so easily after the "they weren't you honey" but I don't think it's out of character at all! Think about her in Raiders, sure she was pissed at him at first, but after they left for Cairo, she all smiles, and then when he leaves her in the tent, she was really pissed at him after that, but it doesn't take her very long at all to forgive him for it, in no time she's kissing him again in the boat.. now go to Crystal Skull, when she first sees him, she's pissed! But give her a little time with him and she's forgiven him again.. let's face it, Marion can not stay mad at Indy for very long! She tries to be mad at him sometimes but she's been swooning for him since she was teen

one of my favorite parts from the kotcs novel, and I think it says a lot:

(( Her eyes traced his shoulders, the crook of his head in deep concentration. She remembered all the late nights. She would be in bed, and he would be at his desk, poring over a thick book or studying some bit of antiquity by candle light. She would wait for him to come to bed no matter how long it took. He would eventually blow out the candle, slip from his clothes, and slide under the covers beside her.
She would turn and kiss him, reminding him that life was more than history, that there was also a present waiting for him too.
And she had waited. Each night. But one night he never came home.
.....
As she stared toward the fire, she recognized a painful truth.
Though she had moved on with her life, a small part of her buried deep in her heart, had never truly stopped waiting for him.))

Marion has clearly always been crazy for him!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyologist
Could someone post a link so I can take a look at that Darabont script? I want to see for myself how Indy had to earn her back-- which makes way more sense. Thanks in advance.

It would have been a lot better to have made Indy have to win her back, and I know a lot of people didn't but I loved the Darabont script!

http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/indiana-jones-4.pdf

Last edited by Robyn : 04-08-2009 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:08 PM   #9
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Say, um...ronicle?



THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!! I've been looking for that script for so long!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so so much!!!!! I haven;t read it yet, but I downloaded it and will read it soon....after I rest from the test I just took!!!! HEY! I know we have a few differences about Marion, but let bygones be bygones, heehee. Anyway, between you and Violet convinced me to sort of look at her in a different way in KoSC. In fact, I am so thankful, I will think of Marion in Kingdom whatever you wish me to think!!

No, really, thanks a million. My day hasn't been the best one, and you just made my day!
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang
Say, um...ronicle?



THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!! I've been looking for that script for so long!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so so much!!!!! I haven;t read it yet, but I downloaded it and will read it soon....after I rest from the test I just took!!!! HEY! I know we have a few differences about Marion, but let bygones be bygones, heehee. Anyway, between you and Violet convinced me to sort of look at her in a different way in KoSC. In fact, I am so thankful, I will think of Marion in Kingdom whatever you wish me to think!!

No, really, thanks a million. My day hasn't been the best one, and you just made my day!

That's no problem at all! I have all kinds of link goodies (including comics) at the Marion and Indy site but you have to join and most people hate joining things lol Me and you both agree that Marion was HUGELY under used in kotcs! At least we agree on that (at least I think we agree on that?)
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Old 04-08-2009, 03:56 PM   #11
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I think Indy leaving Marion a week before the wedding is perfectly in character, given what we know about him from the first three films. To wit, look at this screen shot:



The look on his face tells you everything you need to know about Indy's attitude towards "normal" life. He would rather climb out the window and take a stroll around campus than live up to his responsibilities as a professor. Are we really surprised that he would act any differently where marriage is concerned? As others have pointed out, he had no idea she was pregnant at the time.

When I look at that picture, I see a man who feels trapped by his circumstances, and who clearly would rather be swinging across some pit in Peru than sitting at home. Indy in the 1930's was a man of adventure, not domestic tranquility. I'm sure the thought of marriage terrified Indy at that time, and I would be curious as to who proposed to whom.

Now, by the time we get to the 1950's, Indy is a changed man. He has entered a time in his life when, in his friend's words, "life stops giving and starts taking away." When he boards that train, he truly does seem to feel that life has taken much away. Marriage at that time in his life is much more acceptable to Indy than it was 20 years ago.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
The look on his face tells you everything you need to know about Indy's attitude towards "normal" life. He would rather climb out the window and take a stroll around campus than live up to his responsibilities as a professor. Are we really surprised that he would act any differently where marriage is concerned? As others have pointed out, he had no idea she was pregnant at the time.

That look on his face there is a pretty good description of how he feels trapped in "normal" life..

Quote:
and I would be curious as to who proposed to whom.

I'm absolutely shocked that some people would think that Marion would be the one to propose! I mean she does swoon easily, but she has more pride than that!
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:16 PM   #13
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These instances might have also shaped his attiude towards marriage:
1916) Proposed to Vicky. She rejected him.
1918) Engaged to Molly. She died.
1926) Married to Dierdre. She died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronicle
I'm absolutely shocked that some people would think that Marion would be the one to propose!
That is most logical explanation. You're living in another world with your Marion/Indy fantasies.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:20 PM   #14
Robyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
These instances might have also shaped his attiude towards marriage:
1916) Proposed to Vicky. She rejected him.
1918) Engaged to Molly. She died.
1926) Married to Dierdre. She died.

Yeah but we still don't know for sure whether those women exist in the Indy movie world

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Originally Posted by Stoo
That is most logical explanation. You're living in another world with your Marion/Indy fantasies.

Well it just seems so out of character for Marion to be the one to propose to any man, not just Indy
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronicle
Yeah but we still don't know for sure whether those women exist in the Indy movie world
Vicky & Molly for sure. "Love's Sweet Song" & "Masks of Evil" respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronicle
Well it just seems so out of character for Marion to be the one to propose to any man, not just Indy
Yeah, but Indy is not just "any man". She loves him.

Last edited by Stoo : 04-08-2009 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ronicle
I'm absolutely shocked that some people would think that Marion would be the one to propose! I mean she does swoon easily, but she has more pride than that!

Again, look at his face. Does that look like a man who wants to settle down with a wife, two kids and a picket fence? Why the hell would he propose? Also, as Violet said, if he knew it wasn't going to work out, it seems strange that he would have popped the question in the first place. Perhaps Indy did propose, but if he did, I feel that he was pressured into it by Marion and/or society's expectations.

Also, I agree that most self-respecting women in those days would never have asked a man to marry them, but Marion was hardly the archetypical 1930's woman. I mean, she killed more Nazis in ROTLA that Indy did! She partook in drinking contests with Australians! She was a kick-ass woman who wasn't afraid to go after what she wanted, I can totally see her proposing to Indy.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Vicky & Molly for sure. "Love's Sweet Song" & "Masks of Evil" respectively.

I haven't seen all of the young Indy episodes, I thought they were from the books


Quote:
Yeah, but Indy is not just "any man". She loves him.

True but it still seems out of character for her to ask, the novel made a point to show how much she waited for him, seems like she wanted him to ask
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kevin
Again, look at his face. Does that look like a man who wants to settle down with a wife, two kids and a picket fence? Why the hell would he propose? Also, as Violet said, if he knew it wasn't going to work out, it seems strange that he would have popped the question in the first place. Perhaps Indy did propose, but if he did, I feel that he was pressured into it by Marion and/or society's expectations.

Also, I agree that most self-respecting women in those days would never have asked a man to marry them, but Marion was hardly the archetypical 1930's woman. I mean, she killed more Nazis in ROTLA that Indy did! She partook in drinking contests with Australians! She was a kick-ass woman who wasn't afraid to go after what she wanted, I can totally see her proposing to Indy.

I still can't see it, everytime I try to picture her asking Indy to marry her, it doesn't seem like her. I can see her trying everything she can to get him to ask her and I can definitely picture him popping the queston and then changing his mind!

sorry I just realized that I double posted, but I can't delete it now..

Last edited by Robyn : 04-08-2009 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:25 PM   #19
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I think I was looking to get an idea of what folks thought of the character of Indiana Jones by his running away from commitment. was he just a jerk.. or a scoundrel.... or was there more to it.... perhaps it was his own "broken" family - watching his father obsessed with his Grail quest and ignoring his wife and child - which changed his mind.

I know in the novels he was married, though briefly to Dierdre, but I try to consider what happened in the films and on the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles as the only true canon (even "old Indy" - if he ever comes back).

I like the whole idea that when he was getting on the train and looked back and realized his life was empty... and that he was given a second chance at life again when Mutt showed up... in the novelization - he even leaves the fedora nad leather jacket behind in his closet when he packs... and it is only when he and Mutt read Ox's letter that he grabs his old garb and heads out again looking for adventure... a great character moment - one that would have added some depth to "Crystal Skull".
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchellhallock
I think I was looking to get an idea of what folks thought of the character of Indiana Jones by his running away from commitment. was he just a jerk.. or a scoundrel.... or was there more to it.... perhaps it was his own "broken" family - watching his father obsessed with his Grail quest and ignoring his wife and child - which changed his mind.

I really think Indy has been running away from commitment in all three movies. Nominally he is a university professor, yet every chance he gets, he leaves his responsibilties in academia behind and goes off on some adventure.

In ROTLA, he's back from Peru teaching for what, one day? Maybe a few more offscreen? Then he's off to Nepal to look for the headpiece. Who knows how long he had been away from his university in TOD. In LC he was once again back for a day, maybe two, before heading to Venice. Heck, he doesn't even teach at the same school for all three movies! Indiana Jones is the antithesis of committment.

I wouldn't say he is a jerk or scoundrel, but maybe a little immature; a 40 year-old adolescent who would rather go on adventures than face real-world responsibilities. Thus, I think his running away from the altar fits his (late 1930's) personality perfectly.

Again, by the 1950's, he is a changed man. He is a tenured professor of archeology. He doesn't even want to go on a quest; he wants to get another teaching job as soon as possible. Mutt drags him into it, and he only agrees because he wants to save Ox.

Last edited by Kevin : 04-08-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:25 PM   #21
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I could picture Marion commanding Indiana jones to marry her very easy. However, let's say she normally wouldn't. Maybe she did once she found out she was pregnant. Like "I'll talk him into marrying me because he ain't gonna, but I love him and we are gonna have a child together." Indy's first reaction is like "Yeah sure." Then he thinks it over and leaves once again.

Then Marion would be like "Crap!! I didn't get to tell him!!"

And then KoCS happened a few years after.

BTW, Ronicle, We DO agree on that. Is there any forum already in which to discuss the Darabont script?

Last edited by wolfgang : 04-08-2009 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:56 PM   #22
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Indy's let a lot of people down. (lol Elsa)

But Marion's a tough broad, let's not forget. She had a "a damn good life," remember.

A.

DAMN.

GOOD.

LIFE.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:58 PM   #23
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Can any of you all actually see Indy changing diapers and getting up in the wee hours of the morning to check on some crying baby? I certainly can't.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |ZiR|
Indy's let a lot of people down. (lol Elsa)

But Marion's a tough broad, let's not forget. She had a "a damn good life," remember.

A.

DAMN.

GOOD.

LIFE.

Well so have I!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewy9
Can any of you all actually see Indy changing diapers and getting up in the wee hours of the morning to check on some crying baby? I certainly can't.

Fatherhood is Indy's uncharted territory, so it might be interesting to see.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:08 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by DocWhiskey
Well so have I!



Fatherhood is Indy's uncharted territory, so it might be interesting to see.

I was just gonna say the same thing! I would have loved to see Indy dealing with a baby, it would have been so fun if he'd been there when Mutt was a baby, I can see him now, picture it: it's 4:00 in the morning and all the sudden there's the sound of a screaming baby..

Indy - "Marion!!! The baby wants you!" lol
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