you'll have to admit that books and other men acted as messengers. Which in fact makes me wonder how can one demand concrete facts from science and its developments while one has no better knowledge of the origins of his own faith?
Only the paranoid man will enter... be wary of false prophets.
Okay, so I can predict the answer, but yet you'll have to admit that books and other men acted as messengers. Which in fact makes me wonder how can one demand concrete facts from science and its developments while one has no better knowledge of the origins of his own faith?
I believe what I said with regard to demanding concrete facts from science, was that until they have those concrete facts, their findings and theories should only be presented as THEORY and if there are other view points, they too should also be presented. If only one side is presented, and it is not presented as THEORY, then you run into the issue of who is pushing the agenda and why. I say present all sides and let people decide.
Rocket Surgeon, you can't win an argument against faith. Faith, is, literally faith. Faith doesn't require proof of evidence.
...and I'm not trying to win, merely to uncover, to reveal. I understand the nature of faith, but not all things are equal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I don't have any faith, so as an outsider I do not understand the conviction, though I respect that some people do have faith.
I'm sure there's something you believe in, (although as we continue to repeat, belief doesn't make you correct).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The issues I have with religion are the cases where it is employed to manipulate people through fear: where man employs faith as a means to power and control. As Jack has also noted, scientists can also be guilty of the same charge: employing science for their own ends, or to promote the ends of other parties.
This has also been repeated by many, myself included. Both religion and science are also responsible for great progress in the history of man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
We have to tread carefully lest we set off poison darts. Regard everything with suspicion until you can confirm it by other means. To mis-quote Henry Jones Sr, 'Only the paranoid man will enter'.
Even Jesus had his doubting Thomas...(and this is a guy who was a witness!)
You know, since you obviously believe in God, all I was asking you is who first told you of him, which happened when you were but a wee lad, I presume.
If it was The Lord himself, then I guess you can do no better than that... but if it was simply another man, then I'm afraid we're quite not done here yet.
You know, since you obviously believe in God, all I was asking you is who first told you of him, which happened when you were but a wee lad, I presume. If it was The Lord himself, then I guess you can do no better than that... but if it was simply another man, then I'm afraid we're quite not done here yet.
I first learned about our Lord and Savior through a game of Telephone! Anyone heard of it?
You know, since you obviously believe in God, all I was asking you is who first told you of him, which happened when you were but a wee lad, I presume.
If it was The Lord himself, then I guess you can do no better than that... but if it was simply another man, then I'm afraid we're quite not done here yet.
Oh, I think we are done! Like Montana said, “you can't win an argument against faith”, so don’t waist your breath!
Like Montana said, “you can't win an argument against faith”, so don’t waist your breath!
"Arguing with a believer is like playing chess with a pigeon. It jumps on the board, upturns all your pieces and covers them in droppings. Then it flies back to its roost and tells everyone how it won a chess game." ~Unknown
"Arguing with a believer is like playing chess with a pigeon. It jumps on the board, upturns all your pieces and covers them in droppings. Then it flies back to its roost and tells everyone how it won a chess game." ~Unknown
Yeah, I guess we're done.
Not quite, I just want to say that I admire that quote, Finn. I had a history lecturer at university who happened to also be a Reverend. Suffice to say that he didn't like my interpretation of history. He told me I was like the bird that built its nest in the barrel of a cannon. Still, I got the last laugh as I got a First Class BA (Honours) in English and History.
I am a Christian, and I beleive God made earth and man. And I generally do not believe most of evolution, but, the real definition of evolution is, a change in a species over time.
I think a species can adapt to its enviroment, but I don't think it will change into something completely different in afew million years. Evolutionist were trying to say that waay back when wolves evolved into whales due to similarity in their bone structure. And I mean really commen sense tells us that everything has a skellital system and its constructed in the same basic way, and just because one is ordered in a very close arrangement to anoth doesnt mean it WAS that at some point.
Hey my 2 cents worth.
This pretty much sums up my beliefs as well. It's one thing to say that something can adapt to its environment; it's quite another to say that it can morph into a completely different creature.
and here we go... Speak out against sciene and your an idiot
People can bash Religion all they want but say something against science and suddeny your a nutter
dude you need to stop and my say is that evolution is right the bible dosen't have the answers and what i'm trying to say christans get all hyped up over evolution answers i attened a christan church they are weird and in my opinion are no diffrent then the muslims they bash! they live according to the bible just like muslims would live to theirs so in a cosmic sense they are not all diffrent then at first glance
If it weren't for Christians, I'd be a Christian.-- Mahatma Ghandi
This pretty much sums up my beliefs as well. It's one thing to say that something can adapt to its environment; it's quite another to say that it can morph into a completely different creature.
Actually we're talking about billions of years and if you have changes even small ones happening repeatedly over billions of years you will get something that looks completely different.
The theory of evolution is based upon observations of the natural world. The theory is both derived from nature and describes the mechanisms within nature that have brought about all the variety of life of which we are a part. What observations in the real world are the theories of creationism based upon? Someone mentioned faith earlier but that cannot be counted as substantiation. Faith equals acceptance without proof which is too convenient. How evolution occurs is beyond argument to me. I'm now more interested in why, if indeed there is a 'why'. I don't propose science might be able to help us here though, but science's great virtue is that it holds itself up to be disproven and that nothing is sacred. It is not untouchable and has a built-in requirement to be updated and fully revised if need be.
The theory of evolution is based upon observations of the natural world. The theory is both derived from nature and describes the mechanisms within nature that have brought about all the variety of life of which we are a part. What observations in the real world are the theories of creationism based upon? Someone mentioned faith earlier but that cannot be counted as substantiation. Faith equals acceptance without proof which is too convenient. How evolution occurs is beyond argument to me. I'm now more interested in why, if indeed there is a 'why'. I don't propose science might be able to help us here though, but science's great virtue is that it holds itself up to be disproven and that nothing is sacred. It is not untouchable and has a built-in requirement to be updated and fully revised if need be.
Aren’t scientist asking us to have FAITH in their THEORIES, because NONE of them have been able to find ANY real proof to substantiate that any species has ever turned into a different species. Yes species have changed and adapted, but there is NO proof that their basic DNA has changed to make them into something other than what they have always been. If as you put it, “Faith equals acceptance without proof” then I’ll choose FIATH in God over science every time!
Aren’t scientist asking us to have FAITH in their THEORIES, because NONE of them have been able to find ANY real proof to substantiate that any species has ever turned into a different species.
You know, I've got proof. Tons of it, in fact. All those carefully constructed files showing clear evidence how man was once a fish with plenty of fossiles to back it up. And believe it or not, I've even managed to clone my very own dodo bird by mixing up the DNAs of alligator and emu.
And I'm willing to show them to anyone who's got real doubt, as long as you in return help me get rid of my own doubts and procure reliable scientific proof... that God exists.
And let's emphasize... scientific. I've seen that faith stuff already. Didn't quite fly.
I understand and sympathise with your doubts regarding the missing link. It's inspired my question:
Why is God no longer making personal appearences as he did with Moses, why is he no longer raising people from the dead as he did with Lasarus, and his son for that matter?
Why is God no longer making personal appearences as he did with Moses, why is he no longer raising people from the dead as he did with Lasarus, and his son for that matter?
Should we emply the Occam's razor, the answer is very simple.
God is dead.
But this is the philsophical answer. Not that of natural science.
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In the practical world, the point is, the scientific community at least has something to back up their theories.
If it simply comes down to faith in evolution versus faith in God, I guess we can call it a tie. There's no turning those who believe in one or the other.
But then there's the other playfield, that of science. In there, the evolutionists might not have full certainty, but at least they have something. Similarities in DNAs. Proof of adaption. Fossils. And other things.
And God, on that field? He has nothing.
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The believers are demanding more scrutiny from the scientific community what comes to their theories of evolution, yet at the same time they have no interest in placing their own faith in God to go through the same hoops. No, they want science to make its stand on the field of science while they place God in the faith sector, and expect them to be comparable. It just doesn't work that way.
And if you think it does, all I'm asking is that isn't there a statue somewhere you should be sitting on?
Why is God no longer making personal appearences as he did with Moses, why is he no longer raising people from the dead as he did with Lasarus, and his son for that matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OMNIPOTENT
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to....
"The sciences of observation describe and measure the multiple manifestations of life with increasing precision and correlate them with the time line."
Religion:
"But the experience of metaphysical knowledge, of self-awareness and self-reflection, of moral conscience, freedom, or again of aesthetic and religious experience, falls within the competence of philosophical analysis and reflection, while theology brings out its ultimate meaning according to the Creator's plans."
Did God create the Universe in seven days as the Bible tells us?
