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Old 09-18-2009, 02:02 PM   #1
Stoo
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"Secrets of a Master Builder" Footage - KotCS

In the end credits of "Skull" there is this:

“Secrets of a Master Builder” Footage Courtesy of WGBH Boston
c 2001 WGBH Educational Entertainment

which is undoubtedly this PBS special: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/eads/

Does anyone have any clue as to what footage is being referred to here? (It's not the riverboat.)
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:00 PM   #2
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This is interesting. I checked out what information I could find about “Secrets of a Master Builder” and the only possible link to Indy footage would seem to be the riverboat, but you know it is definitely not that?

I am intrigued!
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Does anyone have any clue as to what footage is being referred to here? (It's not the riverboat.)

Why do you say it's not?

Didn't they travel by river boat to the Russian encampment where we see Marion and Ox for the first time?

Could it have been part of the travel montage there ala "Lost Horizon"?

I think it is...

Last edited by Rocket Surgeon : 09-19-2009 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:30 PM   #4
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I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:50 PM   #5
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The 2 riverboats are from a 1997 documentary called "Amazon". (See here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0140803/) as per the credits in "Skull":

Aerials of Riverboat from “Amazon” Courtesy of MacGillivray Freeman Films

Even more intriguing are these:

Stock Footage Provided by Getty Images
Stock Footage Provided by Framepool

These could be the background in the plane shot of the montage just before the boat and, perhaps, the Nazca aerial shots.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
The 2 riverboats are from a 1997 documentary called "Amazon". (See here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0140803/) as per the credits in "Skull":

Aerials of Riverboat from “Amazon” Courtesy of MacGillivray Freeman Films

Even more intriguing are these:

Stock Footage Provided by Getty Images
Stock Footage Provided by Framepool

These could be the background in the plane shot of the montage just before the boat and, perhaps, the Nazca aerial shots.

These are good reasons!
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Thanks for letting us know, Meerkat. I have no idea what "Twilight" is so I guess that makes things even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
These are good reasons!
It's all in the fine print!

Rocket and nitzsche (or anyone else), care to take another guess at what the "Master Builder" footage could be? I'm stumped for the moment.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Rocket and nitzsche (or anyone else), care to take another guess at what the "Master Builder" footage could be? I'm stumped for the moment.

Keep in mind they credit those Hitchcock films as well yet they cannot be seen in the movie...
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:00 PM   #9
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The Master Builder documentary dealt with bridges over rivers, New Orleans, and the Mississippi, so that's why I thought about the riverboat. I need to comb the movie for some montage stuff and see if anything pops out at me.

It is possible these shots were borrowed, cut, but still credited. But I like this topic. I had no idea they used stock footage.

EDIT: Actually, there are two boats. One is the river boat and one is the larger ship. This larger ship could be from "Secrets of a Master Builder".

Last edited by nitzsche : 09-19-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Keep in mind they credit those Hitchcock films as well yet they cannot be seen in the movie...
Yes, but those Hitchcock credits are just for the posters, not the films themselves. They might be in there somewhere...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitzsche
The Master Builder documentary dealt with bridges over rivers, New Orleans, and the Mississippi, so that's why I thought about the riverboat. I need to comb the movie for some montage stuff and see if anything pops out at me.

It is possible these shots were borrowed, cut, but still credited. But I like this topic. I had no idea they used stock footage.

EDIT: Actually, there are two boats. One is the river boat and one is the larger ship. This larger ship could be from "Secrets of a Master Builder".
The riverboat footage was a reasonable assumption (and one I would have arrived at myself, had I not read the "Amazon" credit.) As I noted above, there are indeed 2 boats but the credits say: "Aerials of the Riverboat". Aerials is plural so we can assume that both shots are from "Amazon".

The "Master Builder" footage may well have been cut from the film but I'd like to get to the bottom of this mystery.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:07 AM   #11
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I always found it odd that they included some stoke footage, which you'd think would be easy to replicate via CGI. Can anyone recall if stock footage was used in any of the other movies?
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
I always found it odd that they included some stoke footage, which you'd think would be easy to replicate via CGI. Can anyone recall if stock footage was used in any of the other movies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Could it have been part of the travel montage there ala "Lost Horizon"?
The Washingon Street scene at the end of Raiders was borrowed as well...
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:20 AM   #13
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Wasn't there originally supposed to be an actual brief riverboat scene? Cutting it out could explain the use of stock footage.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:49 AM   #14
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There is a sort of aerial view of a riverboat before the camp scene, isn't there?
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
I always found it odd that they included some stoke footage, which you'd think would be easy to replicate via CGI. Can anyone recall if stock footage was used in any of the other movies?
Young Indy borrows a lot of footage. "Old Gringo, "The Lighthorsemen", "Lion of the Desert", "55 Days at Peking", "The Singing Detective", the made-for-TV version of "All Quiet on the Western Front" and some colourized, archival footage (and probably more).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
The Washingon Street scene at the end of Raiders was borrowed as well...
Didn't know that! You learn something new everyday. Now I'm wondering about some of the montage footage from the first 3 movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
Wasn't there originally supposed to be an actual brief riverboat scene? Cutting it out could explain the use of stock footage.
I don't know about that. The only stuff (that I'm aware of) filmed outside the U.S. were the long shots of the waterfall by a second unit team in Venezuela which would mean that all the travel montage footage is stock. Looks like both Getty Images and Framepool are contenders for the Nazca shots.

http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Se...e&phrase=Nazca

http://www.framepool.com/frame.jsp?ct=1253560105445

Quote:
Originally Posted by emtiem
There is a sort of aerial view of a riverboat before the camp scene, isn't there?
Read the thread, MTM.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
I don't know about that. The only stuff (that I'm aware of) filmed outside the U.S. were the long shots of the waterfall by a second unit team in Venezuela...
Whoooops. Just want to correct myself. It's on the Brazil-Argentinian border (Iguazu Falls) where they also shot aerial footage of the surrounding jungle terrain there.

Anyway, I found the "Vertigo" poster in "Skull"! (Funny having it in there considering the film came out in 1958!)
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:35 PM   #17
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If memory serves (and goodness knows it often doesn't, so don't take my word for it, but anyway...), the plane footage from the map montage when Indy and Marion are flying from Nepal to Egypt in Raiders of the Lost Ark is taken from a '50s Paramount movie (I don't know which, sorry - but I'm sure we can find out, if it's true... ).
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack that whip
If memory serves (and goodness knows it often doesn't, so don't take my word for it, but anyway...), the plane footage from the map montage when Indy and Marion are flying from Nepal to Egypt in Raiders of the Lost Ark is taken from a '50s Paramount movie (I don't know which, sorry - but I'm sure we can find out, if it's true... ).
It's either in Passage to China or Lost Horizon.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Anyway, I found the "Vertigo" poster in "Skull"! (Funny having it in there considering the film came out in 1958!)

...ok...

Do I have to ask?
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
I always found it odd that they included some stoke footage, which you'd think would be easy to replicate via CGI.
This is a very backwards way of thinking. As Harrison Ford once said: "Easy? Ya call that easy?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack that whip
If memory serves (and goodness knows it often doesn't, so don't take my word for it, but anyway...), the plane footage from the map montage when Indy and Marion are flying from Nepal to Egypt in Raiders of the Lost Ark is taken from a '50s Paramount movie (I don't know which, sorry - but I'm sure we can find out, if it's true... ).
Didn't know that but I wouldn't be surprised now that Rocket mentioned the Washington shot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniac
It's either in Passage to China or Lost Horizon.
"Lost Horizon" is a strong possibility but "Passage to China"? Are you sure about that title, Insomniac? There is a "China Passage" movie but it's in black & white. Anyway, thanks for chiming in!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
...ok...

Do I have to ask?
The I.D. on the "Wrong Man" poster is not 100% positive but it sure looks like very similar (and this would seemingly be the most logical place). What do you think?

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Old 10-26-2009, 11:12 PM   #21
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http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Se...e&phrase=Nazca (Stoo's link)

The pic on the far right on the getty images site is one of the pictures of the nazca lines in Indy's book. You know, the one he shows to Mutt?
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
This is a very backwards way of thinking. As Harrison Ford once said: "Easy? Ya call that easy?"

It's not when you consider the lengths they'd go to in order to artificially replicate a gopher, monkey, piece of foilage or a 2 second horizon shot. I'd much rather have a piece of real footage of the amazon... but if it's a choice between stock footage (which looks like it's from another movie IMHO), and a visual effects shot, I'd opt in favour of the latter. However, clearly Spielberg would agree with you and not with me (as he wouldn't of used it otherwise).
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayne
The pic on the far right on the getty images site is one of the pictures of the nazca lines in Indy's book. You know, the one he shows to Mutt?
Yes, I noticed that, too, which most likely accounts for the credit to Getty Images.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
It's not when you consider the lengths they'd go to in order to artificially replicate a gopher, monkey, piece of foilage or a 2 second horizon shot. I'd much rather have a piece of real footage of the amazon... but if it's a choice between stock footage (which looks like it's from another movie IMHO), and a visual effects shot, I'd opt in favour of the latter. However, clearly Spielberg would agree with you and not with me (as he wouldn't of used it otherwise).
Regardless of YOUR preferance, it's still "easier" to use footage that already exists then it is to create a CGI one from scratch. That was my point. Be honest, did you have ANY suspicion that footage was lifted from another film when you 1st saw "Skull"? My guess was that the shots were simply 2nd unit stuff.

Anyway, if the Washington shot in "Raiders" is taken from somewhere else...WHERE?

P.S. What do you folks think about the Hitchcock posters? Yes?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Regardless of YOUR preferance, it's still "easier" to use footage that already exists then it is to create a CGI one from scratch. That was my point. Be honest, did you have ANY suspicion that footage was lifted from another film when you 1st saw "Skull"? My guess was that the shots were simply 2nd unit stuff.

Of course I agree that it’s easier to use footage that already exists. They could do that with pretty much every establishing shot that didn’t need Indy in it. But that's not typical of Spielberg/Lucas

Honestly speaking... I thought it seemed incongruous the moment I saw it – primarily because of the riverboat (which doesn't feature in any other shot).

P.S. I think the Hitchcock poster are a great little detail.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:21 AM   #25
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Yeah Stoo, I think you found the match! The posters are a little piece of authenticity you see all too little these days in a movie!

Regarding the 'Secrets of a Master Builder' footage, I noticed it listed on the credits too . But I have never seen the programme before and can't pinpoint the footage in the movie. I'll have to say I feel, after watching the film again, that the most logical choice, based on my little knowledge of the film/doco, would be to say it is in a travel montage. Perhaps the Soviet Plane that takes Indy and Mutt away before the riverboats (If it's relevant to the programme) or maybe one of the two planes that take them to Nazca earlier?
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