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Old 03-21-2011, 12:04 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Nah, that's just your judgment and self-restraint.

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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I still can't quite see this point of view. For one, as you suggest, the Paramount parks are not really theme parks, and won't go in for the sort of treatment that an Indiana Jones attraction deserves. It's a rich world, that of Indiana Jones, and practically begging to be transformed into immersive theme park experiences. While Universal's people have gotten better over time, the Disney designers were (and for the most part, still are) the gold standard.
Without a doubt, Disney parks set the gold standard but the fact that there are Indy (& "Star Wars") rides within the Magic Kingdom makes things problematic. Even though they both THEMATICALLY fit Adventureland & Fantasyland respectively, in my eyes, they don't belong. As I've stated before; put the attractions in the Hollywood Studios section and it wouldn't bother me as much.
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Two, while there's certainly a compelling argument to be made about the softening of the franchise over time, I think that's a separate discussion. The sort of experience that the Indiana Jones Adventure attractions give (I'm leaving out the stunt show and the coaster in Paris) is one in which the riders are themselves part of the story, not ones where you observe what's happening to the characters in their own narrative, as in most of the Fantasyland-type dark rides, for example. This being the case, there's not a reason for any of the bloodier aspects of the Indiana Jones franchise to appear, while the traps, skeletons, creepy critters, ruined temples, and most of the other trappings of adventure are perfectly suited for such an attraction. It's not, after all, as though Disneyland is just for children, and the contents of the attraction, while, I would argue, fully in keeping with the world of Indiana Jones (various canon issues posed by the letters and crates appearing the queue notwithstanding) and yet not violating the sorts of experiences already present in the theme parks. Indeed, it is the most complete heir to the trademark attractions of Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted Mansion, and the three stand as perhaps the finest achievements of themed ride design.
From everything I've read & seen, "Forbidden Eye" (& Japan's "Temple of the Crystal Skull") surely seem to be at the high-end of Disney attractions but, as far as I'm concerned, their quality doesn't matter. The term, "Disneyfied", comes to mind; the dilution of an artistic product with the aim of safe consumption by an audience of children. Without naming names, there was a young, female member of The Raven who was raised on Disney and was only able to watch the Indy films while her parents were asleep. Even then, she was disgusted with/objected to the violence & foul language.
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Perhaps one of the better points of comparison is Tom Sawyer Island, which took an established and rich mythos, an entire fictional world with numerous trademark elements and gave it a physical reality that could be experienced by those visiting the theme park. It was created in 1958, not a time at which, from what I understand, there was any sort of cross-promotion with a Disney version of the Twain stories. The issue of intellectual property and corporate ownership is a red herring, and irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned; the only true trouble in the analogy is the time frame, and that there was nobody to give the rights to the Twain set of characters. But Lucas clearly perceived that the Disney folks were the best people to bring his fictional universes into an immersive physical reality, and his creative stake in both Star Wars and Indiana Jones are a truer form of ownership than Paramount's distribution deal.
The issue of intellectual property is VERY relevant and a main crux of my argument. Twain/Clemens died (bless him) decades before the original park opened. Pre-1989 (or pre-'87 for "Star Wars"), what other Magic Kingdom attractions were based on unrelated characters/stories while their creator was still ALIVE? I can't think of any (the closest, prior gap might be Milne/Winnie the Pooh). To my knowledge, the collaborative effort with Lucas set a new precedent...blurring the lines between what is/isn't Disney.

I love Disney but the association with Indy & "Star Wars" makes me shiver. It should not be.
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:31 PM   #102
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Dig Treasure of Matecumbe

Who else remembers this cool one from 1976? (Based on Bobby Taylor's novel, "A Journey to Matecumbe".)





Here's the NEW graphic (designed for the current, "Pirates of the Caribbean", generation):

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Old 04-05-2011, 10:22 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Who else remembers this cool one from 1976? (Based on Bobby Taylor's novel, "A Journey to Matecumbe".)

I don't know that one. The first poster looks the most 'mature', something that might have been on the cover of an Agatha Christie novel. The later ones place more focus on the children.

How does this film fit into your agument, Stoo? Is it about the posters?
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
How does this film fit into your agument, Stoo?
It doesn't really fit other than the fact that it's about a hunt for treasure (and I like the artwork on the first 3 posters).

That said, it can be made to fit. SPOILER: When seeing this movie back in the day, I was surprised to see a character, who is thought to have died, return at the end. "He isn't dead!", I exclaimed. To which my mother replied, "No one ever dies in a Disney movie."
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #105
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I have that movie! It's pretty good (I like it), but not nearly as cool as those posters make it look.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Junior Jones
I have that movie! It's pretty good (I like it), but not nearly as cool as those posters make it look.

That goes for a lot of movies. KOTCS looked a far better movie in posters!
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:59 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Stoo
It doesn't really fit other than the fact that it's about a hunt for treasure (and I like the artwork on the first 3 posters).

Do you know the dates for the first three posters?

The first one has a completely different tone to the next two, which look much more like the covers for a childrens' storybook. Are they indicative of any Disney change in empasis over time?
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Junior Jones
I have that movie! It's pretty good (I like it), but not nearly as cool as those posters make it look.
Wow! You're one of the rare ones, Phil! I think most Indy/Disney fans (or Disney/Indy fans) would enjoy it (especially the mosquito swarm)!
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Do you know the dates for the first three posters?

The first one has a completely different tone to the next two, which look much more like the covers for a childrens' storybook. Are they indicative of any Disney change in empasis over time?
They are all from 1976. The 1st is the U.S. domestic (which was also used in Canada), 2nd is France, Belgium & Switzerland, 3rd is Spain so no change over time, just demographics.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:41 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Junior Jones
I have that movie! It's pretty good (I like it), but not nearly as cool as those posters make it look.

My older brothers probably remember them, but I agree the Posters probably make them look cooler than they are...

Will have to check them out.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:14 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
It doesn't really fit other than the fact that it's about a hunt for treasure (and I like the artwork on the first 3 posters).

That said, it can be made to fit. SPOILER: When seeing this movie back in the day, I was surprised to see a character, who is thought to have died, return at the end. "He isn't dead!", I exclaimed. To which my mother replied, "No one ever dies in a Disney movie."

Tell that to Bambi's mom!

When Walt was alive movies were much less violent, not just his films. I have seen a bunch of old Westerns and War movies. They almost all lack blood and gore. Today's movies are much more graphic, partially because technology allows them to be and we are also much less prude as a society. People are even allowed to sleep in the same beds on TV, unlike back then
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:27 PM   #111
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Tell that to Gaston
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:43 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Nurchachi1991
Tell that to Gaston
Who dat?
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Tell that to Bambi's mom!
Hi, dr.jones1986, it's nice to see you chiming in. Of course, technically, my mother was wrong but as a 9-year old, I understood what she was implying. Deaths in Disney films were generally treated as major, poignant scenes and not frivolous gratuity as they are in the Indy movies. Compare the Indy Body Count to any Disney movie and you'll find a large disproportion of numbers (except for maybe the unseen deaths by mass-murder in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea".)

Pale Horse made a great post in this very thread (#66) on the subject of death in Disney films.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
When Walt was alive movies were much less violent, not just his films. I have seen a bunch of old Westerns and War movies. They almost all lack blood and gore. Today's movies are much more graphic, partially because technology allows them to be and we are also much less prude as a society. People are even allowed to sleep in the same beds on TV, unlike back then
What you say is indeed true, however, the '60s & '70s Disney output was crammed to the hilt with kiddie films that lacked any graphic violence or death. Although there may be a couple of exceptions like Anthony Perkins' demise in 1979's, "The Black Hole" (as Montana Smith previously mentioned), I can't think of any other examples from that era.
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
What was the last "G" rated Disney film?

What made the subsequent "PG" Disney films suggest that Parental Guidence was necessary?

Indiana Jones?
What I'd really like to know is: What was the 1st "PG" Disney film?
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:44 AM   #113
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Tell that to Takagi

whoops, wrong thread. Unless we're including Tower of Terror.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:35 PM   #114
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Pale Horse, has your Raven account been overtaken by a certain Disco Kid?

*sneeze*
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:50 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Stoo
What I'd really like to know is: What was the 1st "PG" Disney film?

Take Down (1979)



Pre-Raiders.

And you mean to tell me you don't know of my 'whoops, wrong thread' theme? tsk tsk.
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:49 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Nurhachi1991
Tell that to Gaston

Yeah, he fell to his death after being knocked from the top of the castle.

Oh, yeah- there was blood. Gaston stabs Beast in the back and you see the blood! (I need a screencap stat!)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Who dat ?

Gaston from Beauty and the Beast, 1992. He's the villain of the film. He has a thing for Belle and wants her just because she's beautiful but she hates him coz he's such an a-hole. At the end of the film, when he finds out about Beast, he convinces the villagers that the Beast is evil and that they should attack the castle and kill him. It climaxes in a big showdown at the top of the castle, ultimately being pushed off the castle and falling to his death after stabbing Beast in the back.

In fact, Beast has blood on his wounds in another part of film, after he rescues Belle from savage wolves in the forest.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:37 PM   #117
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I always thought that the first PG rated Disney film was "Splash" in 1984.

Maybe the first with the Disney name in it.

It made a lot of money for the Disney corporation.

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Old 04-11-2011, 10:19 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Take Down (1979)

Pre-Raiders.
I've never even HEARD of that one! Thanks for the precise info, Pale. Is there any blood or gratuitous death in it?

According to IMDB:
"This was Disney's first "PG" rated film, five years before they launched Touchstone Pictures to expand into the "adult" market. The company's name never appeared on this title though: the only reference to the Disney name was that it was released thru Disney's Buena Vista Distribution company."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
And you mean to tell me you don't know of my 'whoops, wrong thread' theme? tsk tsk.
I do, Mr. Horse. Just trying to coax you into writing a bit more on a subject you are well and truly interested in.
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Originally Posted by Violet
Yeah, he fell to his death after being knocked from the top of the castle.

Oh, yeah- there was blood. Gaston stabs Beast in the back and you see the blood! (I need a screencap stat!)
No immediate need for a screencap, Violet, because I'm looking for blood in the pre-'89 days...BEFORE Indy entered the Disney realm. (I saw "Beauty and the Beast" way back when but don't remember much apart from the candlestick character and the computer-assisted rendering of the ballroom scene. Thanks for refreshing my memory.)
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Originally Posted by WilliamBoyd8
I always thought that the first PG rated Disney film was "Splash" in 1984.

Maybe the first with the Disney name in it.
"Splash" was Touchstone, no? That is; under the Disney umbrella but not with the Disney name. I wonder if there were other PG rated films in the period between "Take Down" and the creation of Touchstone?
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:11 AM   #119
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I do, Mr. Horse. Just trying to coax you into writing a bit more on a subject you are well and truly interested in.

Well this topic was brough up here, and it excites me...a stray from the OP, but not the thread.

No Pixar Marvel Movies

Praise the Lord.

Quote:
...“I’m chief creative officer of Disney Animation as well, and with Pixar it’s like, ‘Keep doing what you’re doing, guys,’” Lasseter tells IGN.com. “It’s a filmmaker-driven studio. All of the ideas come from the filmmakers themselves. Working with the filmmakers on ideas.”...
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:46 PM   #120
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So here's some commentary on the prop vehicles at Walt Disney World.

The gist is that recently the tank, at the very least, has been refurbished, having gone from this...



to this.

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Old 05-01-2011, 10:32 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
So here's some commentary on the prop vehicles at Walt Disney World.

The gist is that recently the tank, at the very least, has been refurbished, having gone from this...



to this.

Thanks for posting this Atilla. When I was there last in 2008 it looked terrible as did all of TLC props. Can anyone get us pictures of any of the other props at the Disney Hollywood Studios. I hope they restore them all properly. It seems that at Disneyland they keep the truck from Raiders in good shape (I have not been there yet but I will be going this summer).
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:09 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Moedred
Spielberg, 1978:

"What we're just doing here, really, is designing a ride at DisneyLand."

"This mine cart thing, we should shoot it at the DisneyLand Matterhorn."
At the National Geographic Exhibition, the audio guide stated that the mine cart sound effects were recorded from rollercoasters at Disneyland. The "Doom" crew were given unlimited access to the park after operating hours.

I wonder if this is mentioned in the "Complete Making of" book?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
The gist is that recently the tank, at the very least, has been refurbished, having gone from this...
Last month, my brother brought his wife & kids to Walt Disney World and he took a photo of the refurbished tank for me. It's lookin' good!
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:40 PM   #123
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At the National Geographic Exhibition, the audio guide stated that the mine cart sound effects were recorded from rollercoasters at Disneyland. The "Doom" crew were given unlimited access to the park after operating hours.

I read that too... or maybe Laird told us that on the IndyCast
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:47 PM   #124
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From August 2009

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Hi Pat! It's me, Eddie the So-Cal Reporter and (right now proclaiming Disney Correspondent) for the Indy-Cast! I just wanted to try my hand at stumping the brotherhood. Please read the question as accuratly as I wrote it, I know it's vague but let's see what the Brotherhood can do! Love the trivia section by the way. If you need any Disney/Indy, I'm your guy!

Here goes: Tony Baxter is the Senior Vice President of Creative Development for Walt Disney Imagineering and, of Course, close to us Indy-Fans as the creator of Indiana Jones Adventure and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye which opened in 1995, but this wasn't the first time Mr. Baxter was part of the Indy Franchise. When and for what was this?

Answer: Tony Baxter's roles on his first projects were relatively minor, but he was eventually given extensive creative control of the replacement for The Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland called Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, which debuted at Disneyland in 1979, at Walt Disney World in 1980, and later at Disneyland Paris in 1992. After this, he continued to be assigned high-level roles in Imagineering projects such as Journey into Imagination, Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, Star Tours, and later Indiana Jones Adventure. What, other than the ride, does he have to do with Indy? Well around what I would guess would be 1983, a certain sound effects artist named Ben Burtt was looking for the sounds for a little film called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, primarily a action oriented scene about a mine car chase. Well as you know from bonus features he took his sound equipment down to Disneyland and recorded all the rollercoasters and since Big Thunder Mountain Railroad was in the park after 1979 and it's self was an illusion of a runaway train, it would be one of the rollercoasters now in Temple of Doom.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:28 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
At the National Geographic Exhibition, the audio guide stated that the mine cart sound effects were recorded from rollercoasters at Disneyland. The "Doom" crew were given unlimited access to the park after operating hours.

I wonder if this is mentioned in the "Complete Making of" book?
Last month, my brother brought his wife & kids to Walt Disney World and he took a photo of the refurbished tank for me. It's lookin' good!
I know i have heard they used Big Thunder Mountain Railroad as sound effects for TOD's minecar scene. I think it may have been on one of the DVD extras.

Stoo, did your brother mention if any of the other props from TLC were restored?
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