Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by UK ebay Seller
i already sent you a emasil it stsates 20 episodes it is a compressed version trhis is the only version that exssists in the world this is the most complete serial avaialable you will not get anythink else i have cleared my email as it was full so there is no problem you sending me a email now
Sounds like a suspicious fish.
-"i already sent you a emasil it stsates 20 episodes"...What is IT? The DVD graphics? Very dodgy...
-"the most complete"...Most? Does this mean not-entirely-complete?
-"trhis is the only version that exssists in the world"...Trhis? Exssits?
I've tried looking on ebay but can't find the listing so could you give me the seller's link? (Is the name, julienneh2005?) In the list that you provided of his COMPLETE serials, "King of the Mounties", is among them and a FULL version of that supposedly doesn't exist either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
With regards to Serial influences on Lucas and Spielberg, rather than looking for the first instance of an idea or a cliffhanger, I'm more curious about the actual instances that Lucas and Spielberg might have seen.
Same here, Smiff, but insatiable curiosity drives me to delve deeper into the ORIGINS of the origins! (Will comment on the '60s TV re-packagings later.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The only two serials that I know we can be more sure of were the ones spotted by Steranko:
Yeah, that blurb belongs here so thanks for re-posting it. Besides "Spy Smasher" and Zorro, it was either Spielberg or Lucas (or both) who mentioned other serial titles...just wish I could remember where I read/heard the instances.
Sounds like a suspicious fish.
-"i already sent you a emasil it stsates 20 episodes"...What is IT? The DVD graphics? Very dodgy...
-"the most complete"...Most? Does this mean not-entirely-complete?
-"trhis is the only version that exssists in the world"...Trhis? Exssits?
I've tried looking on ebay but can't find the listing so could you give me the seller's link? (Is the name, julienneh2005?) In the list that you provided of his COMPLETE serials, "King of the Mounties", is among them and a FULL version of that supposedly doesn't exist either.
.
I've just sent you an email with the seller's name, and a link.
• quest for a lost relic; an ornate metal box containing sacred stone tablets (Nyoka's box has a gold lion statue on the top, Raider's ark a statue of golden birds)
• the rope bridge snaps, and the hero hangs from cliff-face by remaining rope
• a trained pet monkey used for comedy relief
• torture with a cattle-brand, which ends up burning down the room
• heroes tied back-to-back on chair while room burns down
• gold medallion with a gem in the center
• mysterious group of foreigners with identical tattoos, who turn out to sort of be good guys protecting the relic
• ...and of course the usual fist-fights, horseback riding, gunfights, bad guys in arab robes and cairo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Besides "Spy Smasher" and Zorro, it was either Spielberg or Lucas (or both) who mentioned other serial titles...just wish I could remember where I read/heard the instances.
While cheking out a possible bullsh!t statement on the page quoted above, about the serials Speilberg watched as a youngster, I found this:
Quote:
Steven Spielberg: A Biography, Joseph McBride
Steven’s movie fanaticism was nurtured at the Kiva Theater on Main Street in Scottsdale, which showed sexy "adult" movies in the evening but had kiddie matinees every Saturday. Parents would drop off their kids and leave them all day with fifty cents’ admission to a program including two features – grade B Westerns and Tarzan movies, sci-fi and monster movies, and occasionally more prestigious films, such as John Huston’s Moby Dick and John Ford’s The Searchers – along with ten cartoons, Our Gang shorts, and two intallments of the kinds of serials Spielberg would pastiche so affectionately in his Indiana Jones movies. "It was a great Saturday," Spielberg recalled. "I was in the movies all day long, every Saturday. I saw Tailspin Tommy and Masked Marvel and Commando Cody and Spy Smasher – serials like that."
More can be read here (but it's not the complete book).
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I've just sent you an email with the seller's name, and a link.
Thanks a lot, Smiff. Here is his/her/their product description for the 1914 version of "Perils of Pauline" (warts and all):
---
"Condition: New: An item that is still in its original shrink wrap from the manufacturer and the original manufacturer’s seal (if applicable) has not been removed. See the seller's listing for full details."
"this is for the complete serial. this is the only version available. this is on 9 chapters. cosisting of all 20 episodes. 214.minutes no other version exsists . this is the only one . comes cased and sleeved. and under ebay policys it is so noted that this serial is in the publick domain comes complete with chapter and menu search.free postage on all listing paypal only do not leave negertive feedback if there is a problem please email me we can sort it out thankssssssssss"
---
My observations:
1) The person who wrote this description is one step above Cro-Magnon man.
2) The name, Koerner, for the villain is from the edited, 9 episode Euro version from 1916.
3) A full run of all 20 episodes supposedly totals *410* minutes (not 214).
4) Grapevine Video released the 9 episode version on DVD with the same front cover as the one shown on the ebay lot. Length = 199 minutes.
Thanks a lot, Smiff. Here is his/her/their product description for the 1914 version of "Perils of Pauline" (warts and all):
---
"Condition: New: An item that is still in its original shrink wrap from the manufacturer and the original manufacturer’s seal (if applicable) has not been removed. See the seller's listing for full details."
"this is for the complete serial. this is the only version available. this is on 9 chapters. cosisting of all 20 episodes. 214.minutes no other version exsists . this is the only one . comes cased and sleeved. and under ebay policys it is so noted that this serial is in the publick domain comes complete with chapter and menu search.free postage on all listing paypal only do not leave negertive feedback if there is a problem please email me we can sort it out thankssssssssss"
---
My observations:
1) The person who wrote this description is one step above Cro-Magnon man.
2) The name, Koerner, for the villain is from the edited, 9 episode Euro version from 1916.
3) A full run of all 20 episodes supposedly totals *410* minutes (not 214).
4) Grapevine Video released the 9 episode version on DVD with the same front cover as the one shown on the ebay lot. Length = 199 minutes.
Conclusion: BULLSH!T
So there's still more chance of finding the Ark of the Covenant on a Greek island than a complete 1914 "Perils of Pauline".
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
With the help of reviews, largely those on IMDB, I've been honing down that huge list of Serials into something more manageable.
I was trying to sift the bad entries out of the equation, to leave only the best or most original examples of a genre.
First of all I discounted the standard westerns, as I don't think these will offer much in the way of variety.
---edit---
I'm looking forward to some further advice that might either shorten this list, or even lengthen it.
Smiffy, about your short list...
Reconsider:
"Robinson Crusoe of Clipper Island": To quote a popular intranetses term..."Meh." It has some O.K. moments but it's not that great and the 'actor' who plays the hero is annoying. (Though this one does have its fair share of amphibious planes and a zeppelin..with a biplane hooking up underneath! Oh, and a lava pit cliffhanger. Not a bad serial but not great either. Proceed with caution.)
Wise Choices:
"Jungle Jim": YES! A big favourite of mine and it's not from Republic! It's from Columbia Pictures. Not as good as the best Republic serials but I like it a lot and there is one scene in particular, where "Last Crusade" is a carbon copy.
"G-Men vs. The Black Dragon": A good one. (A clip from this was used in my "Raiders of the Lost Archives" video.)
"Dick Tracy": Decent choice with another scene that "Last Crusade" copied almost shot-for-shot (which will feature in a future, "Raiders of the Lost Archives" video.)
"Manhunt on Mystery Island": 2 thumbs up from me and a very good choice! One highlight is hair-raising fight up a cliffside staircase. Highly enjoyable.
Additional Recommendations:
"Secret Service in Darkest Africa": The 'sequel' (so to speak) to, "G-Men vs. The Black Dragon", which is on your short-list. These 2 go together because they feature the same hero, played by the same actor. This is the one that I prefer. (It also has a few parallels to "Last Crusade".)
"King of the Mounties": One of the BEST Republic serials! Directed by William Witney. Superb action & editing. 'Say no more!'
Possibles/Probables:
"Adventures of Captain Marvel": Have heard this is a great one but have never seen it.
"Drums of Fu Manchu": Knowing you, Smiffy, you'd probably like this. I've never seen the full series, though.
"Haunted Harbour": Looks good but have never seen the full thing. AndyLGR ordered it so perhaps he can give you a better opinion.
---
C'mon, folks! Anyone else out there who wishes to comment, please feel free to do so.
Reconsider:
"Robinson Crusoe of Clipper Island": To quote a popular intranetses term..."Meh." It has some O.K. moments but it's not that great and the 'actor' who plays the hero is annoying. (Though this one does have its fair share of amphibious planes and a zeppelin..with a biplane hooking up underneath! Oh, and a lava pit cliffhanger. Not a bad serial but not great either. Proceed with caution.)
Wise Choices:
"Jungle Jim": YES! A big favourite of mine and it's not from Republic! It's from Columbia Pictures. Not as good as the best Republic serials but I like it a lot and there is one scene in particular, where "Last Crusade" is a carbon copy.
"G-Men vs. The Black Dragon": A good one. (A clip from this was used in my "Raiders of the Lost Archives" video.)
"Dick Tracy": Decent choice with another scene that "Last Crusade" copied almost shot-for-shot (which will feature in a future, "Raiders of the Lost Archives" video.)
"Manhunt on Mystery Island": 2 thumbs up from me and a very good choice! One highlight is hair-raising fight up a cliffside staircase. Highly enjoyable.
Additional Recommendations:
"Secret Service in Darkest Africa": The 'sequel' (so to speak) to, "G-Men vs. The Black Dragon", which is on your short-list. These 2 go together because they feature the same hero, played by the same actor. This is the one that I prefer. (It also has a few parallels to "Last Crusade".)
"King of the Mounties": One of the BEST Republic serials! Directed by William Witney. Superb action & editing. 'Say no more!'
Possibles/Probables:
"Adventures of Captain Marvel": Have heard this is a great one but have never seen it.
"Drums of Fu Manchu": Knowing you, Smiffy, you'd probably like this. I've never seen the full series, though.
"Haunted Harbour": Looks good but have never seen the full thing. AndyLGR ordered it so perhaps he can give you a better opinion.
Thanks, Stoo. That's exacty what I was looking for. The original list was so big it was daunting, but now the mists are clearing I can see where I'm going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
C'mon, folks! Anyone else out there who wishes to comment, please feel free to do so.
I thought this thread would have attracted more input...
It will when I can find some spare time to watch them. Haunted Harbor is first on the list to watch.
Looking forward to your review. The title of this one is really intriguing, which is why I still have it on my shortlist. I'm hoping it lives up to the creepy kind of Cthulhu-esque atmosphere that it suggests.
The title of this one is really intriguing, which is why I still have it on my shortlist. I'm hoping it lives up to the creepy kind of Cthulhu-esque atmosphere that it suggests.
This one looks like a top notch serial, with lots of real locations and well-played action. It was also one that Spielberg watched at the Kiva Theater in Scottsdale as a child, and then again as an adult while researching ROTLA.
As such it's possible to spot numerous elements that made their way into Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Possible character inspirations for Indiana Jones:
Brown leather jacket:
Shortened Webley-style holster for a Smith & Wesson:
Germans wearing Heer (Army) unforms, as in ROTLA (and even the villain 'The Mask' is Kriegsmarine and not SS):
But there is one brutal SS torturer in the Gestapo dungeon:
A flying wing features:
Onto which the enemy plan to load a crate:
But are thwarted:
Later there’s a fight on the flying wing:
And eventually, after crashing, it explodes:
A German U-Boat features prominently:
And the main character is almost drowned by it:
A vehicle is quickly concealed behind a façade, as with the Ark truck in Cairo, leaving the pursuer confused:
There’s also a mine cart scene, which was abandoned for ROTLA:
And travelling sequences created by superimposing a map over the mode of transport:
The cast is perfect, too, there’s not a single dull or inept actor in sight. Kane Richmond is a terrific lead; he’s tough, determined, and resourceful--a typically unsinkable serial hero--but also seems very human and congenial; one can picture him spending time fishing with a few pals or cheerily swapping yarns with other sea captains as naturally as he tangles with gangs of ruthless henchmen.
But it also wrote:
Quote:
HAUNTED HARBOR receives more adverse criticism than any other Silver Age Republic serial, except CAPTAIN AMERICA. This is probably because the serial introduces a colorful and atmospheric location and a compelling plot device (the hero’s being framed for murder) in its first chapter, only to drop these elements into the background for the remaining 14 chapters in favor of typical Republic fistfights, gunfights, and chases.
So I put this one towards the end of my shortlist when I ordered another bunch of serials yesterday.
Not on the topic of cliffhangers or serials, but closely related, I picked up a disc containing the first seven Johnny Weissmuller Tarzan films (1932-1943) – and I see that Stoo used some footage from them in his terrific Raiders of the Lost Archives. (I didn’t realize that Jungle Girl's Nyoka, Frances Gifford, was in Tarzan Triumphs).
There’s something of the cliffhanger spirit in Tarzan the Ape Man (1932) – darkest Africa with its ever present dangers of a wildlife intent on killing men, giant apes (one played by Ray 'Crash' Corrigan, who almost made a career out his ape suit!), and evil pygmies. Once you get past the out-of-place stock footage used early on the film takes quite unusual turns by modern action adventure standards: Tarzan murdering native bearers one by one; Jane hysterical with fear of being raped by Tarzan... It plays like a more adult version of a matinee serial.
Montana 2 things you mention in your last post have inspired me to mention 2 things I either didn't want to post yet or didnt think belonged in this thread.
Firstly, I'm 5 episodes through haunted harbour and wasn't going to post anything til I watched it all but your quote above mirrors some notes I made whilst watching it so here goes.
1st episode has a Casablanca style feel with the bar, the hero is offered a job on an island where the legend of haunted harbour exists. But before he can leave he is convicted of a murder he didn't commit, without doubt Kane Richmond is the typical hero type, subsequently escapes and makes sale for the island and haunted harbour to find the real murderer.
Episode 2 sees the hero take up his role on the island, but with no adverse reaction from people there who know he is a convicted murderer on the run. This episode veers into western territory with a shoot out on horseback.
3 episodes in and it's just villains of the piece who want to stop him investigating haunted harbor through various traps that fail to work. Funny how after so many attempts on his life that he isn't questioning why.
Episode 3 has a western feel with another shoot out.
Funnily the island setting looks more like an American western setting in CA than a tropical Island.
4 episodes in and the hero realises they don't want him to get to haunted harbor, and we haven't seen the harbor yet!!
Amazing how often in a fight stuff is thrown at each other.
Settings are disappointing, a few palm trees scattered about but it doesn't by any stretch invoke an island feel.
So I'm on to episode 5 and already my initial notes echo that review you quoted. Certainly Kane Richmond is very capable but it definitely seems like a serial by numbers so far.
My second point is something I didn't think belonged in this thread but johnny weismullers Tarzan, basil rathbones Sherlock Holmes and also the Charlie chan movies were all staples of my tv viewing when I was growing up. Surely films of this era are worthy of discussion too.
Montana 2 things you mention in your last post have inspired me to mention 2 things I either didn't want to post yet or didnt think belonged in this thread.
Firstly, I'm 5 episodes through haunted harbour and wasn't going to post anything til I watched it all but your quote above mirrors some notes I made whilst watching it so here goes.
1st episode has a Casablanca style feel with the bar, the hero is offered a job on an island where the legend of haunted harbour exists. But before he can leave he is convicted of a murder he didn't commit, without doubt Kane Richmond is the typical hero type, subsequently escapes and makes sale for the island and haunted harbour to find the real murderer.
Episode 2 sees the hero take up his role on the island, but with no adverse reaction from people there who know he is a convicted murderer on the run. This episode veers into western territory with a shoot out on horseback.
3 episodes in and it's just villains of the piece who want to stop him investigating haunted harbor through various traps that fail to work. Funny how after so many attempts on his life that he isn't questioning why.
Episode 3 has a western feel with another shoot out.
Funnily the island setting looks more like an American western setting in CA than a tropical Island.
4 episodes in and the hero realises they don't want him to get to haunted harbor, and we haven't seen the harbor yet!!
Amazing how often in a fight stuff is thrown at each other.
Settings are disappointing, a few palm trees scattered about but it doesn't by any stretch invoke an island feel.
So I'm on to episode 5 and already my initial notes echo that review you quoted. Certainly Kane Richmond is very capable but it definitely seems like a serial by numbers so far.
That was what I was beginning to suspect the more I read. The titles are often what sell these serials, as they must have done back with their original release. I spent quite a while going through IMDB to break down the massive list, and then cross-checked what was left with reviews from other sites, and from Stoo's comments, so that in the end I thought I was getting a feel of which serials were worthy contenders.
The California settings are fine for something like Spy Smasher - and this one in particular uses them very well for some great sequences, but they don't stand in very well for exotic locations such as 'Darkest Africa'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
My second point is something I didn't think belonged in this thread but johnny weismullers Tarzan, basil rathbones Sherlock Holmes and also the Charlie chan movies were all staples of my tv viewing when I was growing up. Surely films of this era are worthy of discussion too.
As the films weren't strictly 'Cliffhangers' or 'Other Saturday Matinee Serials' I didn't want to push them here too strongly in case they caused a derail.
I'm finding the big attraction with the serials and films from this era is their atmosphere and period detail. When it comes to some of the animal sequences there is something simultaneously fascinating and disturbing that sets these works apart from modern sensibilities. The same goes for some of the characterizations which are brutally honest to the sensibilities of their day (such as Tarzan drowing an African bearer who had nothing whatsoever to do with the killing of his gorilla friend; or the white hunter shooting dead a bearer who refused to journey onwards out of superstition and fear of a cannibal tribe).
(I bought three DVDs yesterday from a box that was largely made up of pirated copies of modern movies - The Tarzan Collection, a disc with three Charlie Chan films and Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man).
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
I started Haunted Harbor today, I'm only 2 episodes through, not much so far that I think could be linked to an inspiration for Indy.
This version is actually titled Pirates Harbor, so its the 1951 re-release.
Incidentally Kane Richmond, who played the lead in Spy Smasher, also plays the lead in Haunted Harbor.
It also stars Kay Aldridge whom you'll be seeing again as Nyoka when you get around to watching "Perils of Nyoka". Perhaps the only Indy inspiration you can expect from "Haunted Harbor" might be a couple of motorboat chases? So many Republic serials have them and I'd be surprised if it didn't have *at least* one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
Funnily the island setting looks more like an American western setting in CA than a tropical Island.
Settings are disappointing, a few palm trees scattered about but it doesn't by any stretch invoke an island feel.
More often than not, this is usually the case. One obvious culprit is, "Secret Service in Darkest Africa", because it NEVER looks like where it's supposed to take place! (Still a cracking romp, though!) Personally, I've become accustomed to putting those inconsistencies aside when they arrive and just enjoy the action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smiff
The titles are often what sell these serials, as they must have done back with their original release.
Some titles can also be misleading. For example: "Robinson Crusoe of Clipper Island" doesn't feature a character with the name of Robinson Crusoe and the story bears ZERO relation to the classic tale of its namesake. Why that title was chosen is truly bizarre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
Amazing how often in a fight stuff is thrown at each other.
I love the throwing of objects during the fights! This reminds me of a comment in another thread where oki9Sedo wrote that the "old-fashioned", jungle fight between Indy & Dovchenko was "in the great tradition of the Republic serials". LIKE HELL IT WAS! Many of their fight scenes moved around and ended up with a whole room being destroyed since the 2 adversaries grabbed anything & everything to throw at/smash the other guy over the head with (bottles, chairs, crates & whatnot). Tables got broken, shelves were knocked over, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
My second point is something I didn't think belonged in this thread but johnny weismullers Tarzan, basil rathbones Sherlock Holmes and also the Charlie chan movies were all staples of my tv viewing when I was growing up. Surely films of this era are worthy of discussion too.
As per discussing the films of Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes and Charlie Chan, it would be prefarable to do so in seperate threads. Tarzan and Charlie don't have their own yet but I know that you, Andy, started a Sherlock one: Sherlock Holmes
However, there are a few Tarzan serials and at least one with Charlie Chan. (I have seen, "The New Adventures of Tarzan", from 1935 but not the rest.) High time for a Tarzan thread!
However, there are a few Tarzan serials and at least one with Charlie Chan. (I have seen, "The New Adventures of Tarzan", from 1935 but not the rest.) High time for a Tarzan thread!
What did you think of The New Adventures of Tarzan, Stoo? The reviews I've read don't seem very praising, though the Guatamalan location sounds good (at least it's not California!)
Last edited by Montana Smith : 11-15-2011 at 02:58 PM.
It also stars Kay Aldridge whom you'll be seeing again as Nyoka when you get around to watching "Perils of Nyoka". Perhaps the only Indy inspiration you can expect from "Haunted Harbor" might be a couple of motorboat chases? So many Republic serials have them and I'd be surprised if it didn't have *at least* one.
I’ve not got to a boat chase yet, one of the characters reminds me of Chattar Lal though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
I love the throwing of objects during the fights! This reminds me of a comment in another thread where oki9Sedo wrote that the "old-fashioned", jungle fight between Indy & Dovchenko was "in the great tradition of the Republic serials". LIKE HELL IT WAS! Many of their fight scenes moved around and ended up with a whole room being destroyed since the 2 adversaries grabbed anything & everything to throw at/smash the other guy over the head with (bottles, chairs, crates & whatnot). Tables got broken, shelves were knocked over, etc.
Theres a strange naivety about a lot of the old films and serials that I really like, in how they portray characters, relationships, violence, everything seems so simple. Its like another world. Maybe they didn’t want to convey the hardships of the time that real people were experiencing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
As per discussing the films of Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes and Charlie Chan, it would be prefarable to do so in seperate threads. Tarzan and Charlie don't have their own yet but I know that you, Andy, started a Sherlock one: Sherlock Holmes
Yes the Sherlock Holmes one started out as a thread dedicated to the 2009 movie and is now encompassing all eras of Holmes. But I aren’t suggesting that this thread gets hijacked with other films of the era, I think they are all deserving of threads of their own. Theres such a rich vein of films from the 30’s to the 50’s like the ones already mentioned, Ealing studios movies, film noirs or the war films of the time.
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
I’ve not got to a boat chase yet, one of the characters reminds me of Chattar Lal though.
Not even one motorboat chase yet? That's surprising for a Republic mystery-adventure. So much for the harbour of "Haunted Harbor"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
Theres a strange naivety about a lot of the old films and serials that I really like, in how they portray characters, relationships, violence, everything seems so simple. Its like another world. Maybe they didn’t want to convey the hardships of the time that real people were experiencing.
That really depends on the film since some can be more 'realistic' than others. Maybe Stephen Jared would like to elaborate on this aspect? Elements I enjoy from this era of cinema are the absence of foul language and attitudes on display that have become politically incorrect by today's standards. It's also interesting to see which violent and sexual situations made it past censorship back then. Not to mention the wanton smoking & drinking! Fascinating stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
Yes the Sherlock Holmes one started out as a thread dedicated to the 2009 movie and is now encompassing all eras of Holmes. But I aren’t suggesting that this thread gets hijacked with other films of the era, I think they are all deserving of threads of their own. Theres such a rich vein of films from the 30’s to the 50’s like the ones already mentioned, Ealing studios movies, film noirs or the war films of the time.
Sadly, there is a large percentage of Raven members who don't seem to care for old flicks and the sheer amount of threads concerning new releases reflect that. Topics about pre-1981 films aren't popular and usually don't get any attention at all (with a few exceptions). For example: Do the superhero fans know or even care that there were serials about Batman, Superman and Captain America? Cripes, Batman even had 2 serials!
As an experiment, maybe I'll start a Tarzan thread and see how far it goes. (Which will probably be a road to nowhere...)
@Montana Smiffy: Personal opinion of "New Adventures of Tarzan" coming up. (Been a long while since I'd watched it so another viewing was in order!)
Sadly, there is a large percentage of Raven members who don't seem to care for old flicks and the sheer amount of threads concerning new releases reflect that. Topics about pre-1981 films aren't popular and usually don't get any attention at all (with a few exceptions). For example: Do the superhero fans know or even care that there were serials about Batman, Superman and Captain America? Cripes, Batman even had 2 serials!
On that note, I've started watching The Phantom (1943). In it's favour it has more jungle than the usual scubby California!
I've seen five episodes and they don't seem to have the edge of the Republic serials. Or maybe it's just missing the William Witney touch.
There seems to be a theme developing: The Phantom tells his dog, Devil, to "stay". The Phantom goes about his tasks and ends up helpless in the closing minutes of the episode. Devil then arrives to save him. It reminded me of Hong Kong Phooey getting into scrapes which Spot the cat has to extricate him from.
There was one cliffhanger where the use of back projection was so seamless that it was hard to believe that the actor wasn't going to get attacked by a crocodile. And another scene in which a stuntman 'fights' a lion who has its jaws round his arm.
That's another odd thing about this serial. I'm not sure where it's supposed to be set. The lion suggested Africa or India. A character refers to an !alligator" which suggests the Americas. Yet, it might also be in the far east - due to a character called 'Singapore Smith' and the location named 'Sai Pana'. Though the original Phantom was set in Africa, the natives in this one look like a cross between those of South America and south east Asia.
One scene familiar to Indy, and likely to countless other films and serials, was the native porters wanting to run away when they get spooked by their superstition.
And back to Batman, The Phantom looks very much to have been the literary father of Bruce Wayne (with Zorro as the grandfather).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
As an experiment, maybe I'll start a Tarzan thread and see how far it goes. (Which will probably be a road to nowhere...)
@Montana Smiffy: Personal opinion of "New Adventures of Tarzan" coming up. (Been a long while since I'd watched it so another viewing was in order!)
A new thread is a new resource, even though it might be lonelier than this one!
Last edited by Montana Smith : 11-17-2011 at 02:25 PM.
As to AndyLGR's comment on the simplicity, I've no idea of course, but I'd suspect the attempt was only to appeal to kids. The reasons behind the varying levels of sophistication would likely be due to the creative force behind the particular project. I'm sure there were directors doing serials who believed they should have been doing Citizen Kane. They likely tossed off their work as ridiculous and the results of course are not good. On the other hand, some directors maintained a child-like enthusiasm and likely enjoyed making the most exciting little films they could.
When I was real little I loved Speed Racer on TV. One day they stopped airing it, and my recollection is that someone had decided it was too violent for kids. It was violent, and characters -- cartoon characters! -- smoked cigarettes. Today, those details add to the charm.
I think the same holds true of those old serials. They reflect the times. They reflect the raw emotions of the times, unobstructed by efforts to come off as sophisticated or intelligent.
Stoo, I watched The New Adventures of Tarzan. I remember being dazzled by some of the set pieces, but I think I lost interest after 4 or 5 episodes. My recollection is the story wasn't as coherent as I would have liked. I recall feeling bored by the character after a while. Maybe my hopes were too high. If I remember correctly, Burroughs himself offered his approval over that series, while he was disappointed with some of the other efforts with his character. I'm very curious to read your thoughts on it. Maybe I should give it another try.
No one's discussed the music. I have a CD called Cliffhangers that's a great listen. It only has republic serials. Of course some of the music was borrowed. I have The Bride of Frankenstein soundtrack, which includes some of the music from Flash Gordon because Universal lifted it right out of Franz Waxman's Bride of Frankenstein score to be used in Flash. It's great fun music.
As to AndyLGR's comment on the simplicity, I've no idea of course, but I'd suspect the attempt was only to appeal to kids. The reasons behind the varying levels of sophistication would likely be due to the creative force behind the particular project. I'm sure there were directors doing serials who believed they should have been doing Citizen Kane. They likely tossed off their work as ridiculous and the results of course are not good. On the other hand, some directors maintained a child-like enthusiasm and likely enjoyed making the most exciting little films they could.
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I think the same holds true of those old serials. They reflect the times. They reflect the raw emotions of the times, unobstructed by efforts to come off as sophisticated or intelligent.
Having reached the end of The Phantom I'd say this rings true. While the character remains faithful to that created by Lee Falk, the serial as a whole felt flat.
There was never an attempt to place the location as anywhere in particular - so there are alligators, lions and tigers making an appearance. This would appeal to childlike sensibilities, that the location only exists for the action and adventure. It only becomes more confused when The Phantom reaches the land of the evil Tartar chieftain and his idiotic goons.
The episodes also lack variety - no motor transport and no big stunts (apart from the guy 'fighting' the lion.
On the upside there's an archaeological expedition to find a lost city, but it's only seen as a very poor model and then mostly as a series of mine tunnels (which look suspiciously like the scene previously used for the tiger trap).
The Phantom fights a gorilla (couldn't find any evidence that this one was Ray Corrigan again!), and that's always a highlight for me.
Tom Tyler was bulky enough and heroic enough to fill the costume, having been a boxer and champion weight-lifter. According to IMDB he was "Once considered the strongest man in America, he won the national AAU weight-lifting championship in 1928 (he lifted 760 lbs.) and made the 1928 U.S. Olympic team." However, he was being gradually crippled by Rheumatoid arthritis, and would die penniless at age 50 in 1954. Having read that before watching the serial it constantly over-shadowed my thoughts.
Ace the Wonder Dog, who played The Phantom's German Shepherd, Devil, was a scene stealer. When called on to fight he throws himself into the action, in one scene biting a bad guy on the behind which, by the actor's reaction, looked as though it was totally unplanned. When not fighting he'll be running around the fight scene, in between the actors' legs. In quieter moments he's constantly alert, looking around at everything going on.
The dog playing Fang in The Perils of Nyoka was also called Ace, and while IMDB doesn't cross reference him to Ace the Wonder Dog, I've a feeling they are one and the same.
For fans of The Phantom, or of the origins of the masked super-heroes who were soon to make an appearance, this serial is a must as it's the first live-action venture for the character.
(Will comment on the '60s TV re-packagings later.)
Besides "Spy Smasher" and Zorro, it was either Spielberg or Lucas (or both) who mentioned other serial titles...just wish I could remember where I read/heard the instances.
Many of their fight scenes moved around and ended up with a whole room being destroyed since the 2 adversaries grabbed anything & everything to throw at/smash the other guy over the head with (bottles, chairs, crates & whatnot). Tables got broken, shelves were knocked over, etc.
That's surprising for a Republic mystery-adventure. So much for the harbour of "Haunted Harbor"!
