inspiration for an Indy island

foreverwingnut

New member
I recently watched a documentary about the Haqar Qim Temple on Malta and it reminded me of the island on which the Ark of the Covenant was opened. The rocky, barren terrain of the Maltese Islands are identical to the island that I will hereafter call the Ark Island- simply called a Mediterranean island in the novel. The location of the Maltese Islands are just off the route from Egypt to Europe, just like the Ark Island had been. Belloq seems to have chosen his island specifically because of its Jewish history and the convenience of the remains of a ceremonial stage, not altogether unlike Malta with its own ruins of a lost Jewish settlement. The Ark Island was a jungle in the novel, but Tunisia was a more obvious location for filming. However, I have to wonder if there was also a decision to change the location so that it better resembled the Maltese Islands. Am I way off target here?
 

HenryJunior

New member
It very well could be representative of what we saw in the movie. It's also interesting to think how no part of Island sequence was filmed on an Island! So much of the Island scenes are different than intended to be filmed, or at least from the novel, so I've always imagined it more as a fictional Island.
:whip:
 

foreverwingnut

New member
Thanks, HenryJunior. The island sequence was my very first introduction to Raiders. My parents saw Raiders together for their anniversary, so I didn't get to see the movie at the theater. During the Academy Awards, however, I sneaked out of bed just to wait for a clip of Raiders, which, as you know, had several well-deserved nominations and wins. There was a long clip of the island sequence as the german soldiers were being run-through with the brilliant light and I'm quite sure the clip accompanied the Best Picture noms because I can remember being really angry that Chariots of Fire had won. Incidentally, I hadn't seen Chariots either, but judging from the clips I knew Raiders had to be the better film! I was so captivated by the clip that being sleepy for school the next day didn't matter! Soon after, I got to see the movie repeatedly on Satelite TV, which trumped Empire Strikes Back as my favorite film- at least for that year any way.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
foreverwingnut said:
The rocky, barren terrain of the Maltese Islands are identical to the island that I will hereafter call the Ark Island- simply called a Mediterranean island in the novel. The location of the Maltese Islands are just off the route from Egypt to Europe, just like the Ark Island had been.
Wingnut, with all due respect, you are indeed off target because:

1) The Ark Island in the film isn't "identical" to Malta.
2) It is not along the same route from Egypt to Europe.
foreverwingnut said:
The Ark Island was a jungle in the novel, but Tunisia was a more obvious location for filming. However, I have to wonder if there was also a decision to change the location so that it better resembled the Maltese Islands. Am I way off target here?
The jungle island might have been changed because it doesn't really make any sense. Which islands in the Mediterranean are jungle?:confused: None that I know of.
 

foreverwingnut

New member
Apparently Stoo has made a personal crusade of finding my comments wherever they may be so he can smear me until I get angry enough to leave this website just because he hates Short Round and I don't. He's so blind with rage over nonsense that he, once again, doesn't give enough attention to my words before he clicks the "Reply" button. I simply posted this thread for a friendly food-for-thought and no one- other than Stoo- can possibly find the slightest hint of contempt or aver in my opening comment. I never said that Malta, itself, was "identical" to the Raiders island, I said that the rocky terrain was identical and I can present photos to prove it. Nor did I suggest that Malta and the Ark Island were "one-in-the-same", I simply suggested it might be an inspiration. I also never said that Malta was on a "direct route" from Egypt to Europe. I said it was "just off the route". Since the novel states the submarine was rerouted, then I thought this might be a reasonable assumption, especially since the Maltese Islands are at the very edge of the Mediterrean near major seaports of Italy. And I did NOT write the novel, so why is Stoo making a stink like he's holding me responsible for the fact that the Ark Island was a jungle island? I never even said it would have been a good idea for a jungle island because I do agree with him on this single point- there are no jungle islands in the Mediterranean, which was my whole reason for this thread in the first place. Stoo has a serious attitude problem and probably should look into therapy.
 

JuniorJones

TR.N Staff Member
harrison%20ford%20again.jpg


FIGHT!!

Welcome to the internet.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
foreverwingnut said:
Apparently Stoo has made a personal crusade of finding my comments wherever they may be so he can smear me until I get angry enough to leave this website just because he hates Short Round and I don't. He's so blind with rage over nonsense that he, once again, doesn't give enough attention to my words before he clicks the "Reply" button. I simply posted this thread for a friendly food-for-thought and no one- other than Stoo- can possibly find the slightest hint of contempt or aver in my opening comment.
Woah, Wingnut!:eek:

1) This is only the 3rd thread where I've spoken to you so there is no "personal crusade" to "smear you". I meant to reply to this thread on the very day you created it (before our Short Round debate) but didn't get around to doing so.

2) In no way am I trying to make you quit The Raven! That is a silly notion. I would NEVER wish that upon someone who wants to talk about things related to Indiana Jones.

3) I don't hate Short Round and even made that clear in the other thread.

4) I am being friendly, dude. I wrote, "with all due respect".:cool:
foreverwingnut said:
I never said that Malta, itself, was "identical" to the Raiders island, I said that the rocky terrain was identical and I can present photos to prove it. Nor did I suggest that Malta and the Ark Island were "one-in-the-same", I simply suggested it might be an inspiration.
Well, I've been going to the south of Italy & Sicily every summer for over 10 years and have been to Egypt and...MALTA. In a few days, it will be exactly 2 years since my visit to Malta (28-30 May, 2010). I wanted to go to the Hagar Qim temple but my girlfriend grew tired of 'Indiana Jonesing' (as she put it).(n)

From my firsthand experience of seeing Malta's coast and its interior, the terrain is NOT "identical" to the Ark Island. It isn't void of vegetation as we see the island in "Raiders". Malta has dry grass, trees, shrubs and plenty of cactus plants. Also, the Maltese islands are mostly flat with low-lying, rolling hils. By contrast, the Ark Island is depicted with sharp, mountainous terrain. Malta does have an area with high, coastal cliffs but the main part of it's major city, Valetta, has sat on top of them for centuries. The cliffs are heavily fortified and not barren.
foreverwingnut said:
I also never said that Malta was on a "direct route" from Egypt to Europe. I said it was "just off the route". Since the novel states the submarine was rerouted, then I thought this might be a reasonable assumption, especially since the Maltese Islands are at the very edge of the Mediterrean near major seaports of Italy.
:confused: I never mentioned anything about a "direct route". Please, Wingnut, don't create a conflict where there is none!:)

6 months ago, the location of the island was discussed in this thread:
Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant

Within that conversation, I showed that the Ark Island's closest, real-world locale is the Greek island of Anafi, in the Mediterranean/southern part of the Agean Sea and relatively close to the coast of Turkey. Far away from Malta...

Island_01.jpg

foreverwingnut said:
And I did NOT write the novel, so why is Stoo making a stink like he's holding me responsible for the fact that the Ark Island was a jungle island? I never even said it would have been a good idea for a jungle island because I do agree with him on this single point- there are no jungle islands in the Mediterranean, which was my whole reason for this thread in the first place. Stoo has a serious attitude problem and probably should look into therapy.
How are you getting the impression that I'm holding you responsible for the novel's jungle island?:confused: I didn't realize that offering a theory about the change was equal to "making a stink", etc.

(The attitude & therapy comments can be easily turned around towards you...but I won't do that.:cool:)
 
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foreverwingnut

New member
Like several other members, I chose to add Stoo to my "ignore list" to avoid any further confrontation. JuniorJones, you're comment and added photo made me laugh hysterically! But, as I can see this thread isn't really going anywhere, can anyone tell me if it's possible for me to delete it?
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
foreverwingnut said:
Like several other members, I chose to add Stoo to my "ignore list" to avoid any further confrontation. JuniorJones, you're comment and added photo made me laugh hysterically! But, as I can see this thread isn't really going anywhere, can anyone tell me if it's possible for me to delete it?

It was, and is, a solid thread. While Stoo - like all of us, to varying degrees - occasionally presents his views in ways that could be called abrasive, I really can't say that I see that to be the case in this particular thread.

It's not possible for you to delete it. It's possible for us to...but is that really necessary?
 

foreverwingnut

New member
I didn't think there was any real substance in this thread aside from giving Stoo an opening to twist and misquote me, but if you see some potential here for intelligent, topical discussion, Attila, then by all means, let's leave it as is. Thanks for the reply.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
It was, and is, a solid thread. While Stoo - like all of us, to varying degrees - occasionally presents his views in ways that could be called abrasive, I really can't say that I see that to be the case in this particular thread.

It's not possible for you to delete it. It's possible for us to...but is that really necessary?
Quite right, Attila, and it?s clearly obvious who is doing the twisting, misquoting and smearing here.(n)

Foreverwingnut made the rash & hasty decision to put me on his ignore list after only 3 of my replies (1 in this thread + 2 in another), therefore, he can?t see the one above (#7). If he truly wishes to have an ?intelligent, topical discussion? about the Ark Island, then he should be encouraged to take my name off of his ignore list and read my other post before making such derogatory remarks & accusations.

Wingnut asked, ?Am I way off target here??, and my brief reply was made ?with all due respect?. Not a reason for all the kvetching.

Re. deleting the thread: An open mind would try reading posts instead of burning them.;) Since there is no way for me to communicate with Foreverwingnut, it would be appreciated if someone could quote my post so that he can (hopefully) understand that no harm was ever intended.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
Since there is no way for me to communicate with Foreverwingnut, it would be appreciated if someone could quote my post so that he can (hopefully) understand that no harm was ever intended.

FM1459.jpg


Since "top men" aren't available, I'll quote it, then head straight to the bunker!

Stoo said:
Quite right, Attila, and it’s clearly obvious who is doing the twisting, misquoting and smearing here.(n)

Foreverwingnut made the rash & hasty decision to put me on his ignore list after only 3 of my replies (1 in this thread + 2 in another), therefore, he can’t see the one above (#7). If he truly wishes to have an “intelligent, topical discussion” about the Ark Island, then he should be encouraged to take my name off of his ignore list and read my other post before making such derogatory remarks & accusations.

Wingnut asked, “Am I way off target here?”, and my brief reply was made “with all due respect”. Not a reason for all the kvetching.

Re. deleting the thread: An open mind would try reading posts instead of burning them.;)


And the aforementioned post #7:

Stoo said:
Woah, Wingnut!:eek:

1) This is only the 3rd thread where I've spoken to you so there is no "personal crusade" to "smear you". I meant to reply to this thread on the very day you created it (before our Short Round debate) but didn't get around to doing so.

2) In no way am I trying to make you quit The Raven! That is a silly notion. I would NEVER wish that upon someone who wants to talk about things related to Indiana Jones.

3) I don't hate Short Round and even made that clear in the other thread.

4) I am being friendly, dude. I wrote, "with all due respect".:cool:
Well, I've been going to the south of Italy & Sicily every summer for over 10 years and have been to Egypt and...MALTA. In a few days, it will be exactly 2 years since my visit to Malta (28-30 May, 2010). I wanted to go to the Hagar Qim temple but my girlfriend grew tired of 'Indiana Jonesing' (as she put it).(n)

From my firsthand experience of seeing Malta's coast and its interior, the terrain is NOT "identical" to the Ark Island. It isn't void of vegetation as we see the island in "Raiders". Malta has dry grass, trees, shrubs and plenty of cactus plants. Also, the Maltese islands are mostly flat with low-lying, rolling hils. By contrast, the Ark Island is depicted with sharp, mountainous terrain. Malta does have an area with high, coastal cliffs but the main part of it's major city, Valetta, has sat on top of them for centuries. The cliffs are heavily fortified and not barren.
:confused: I never mentioned anything about a "direct route". Please, Wingnut, don't create a conflict where there is none!:)

6 months ago, the location of the island was discussed in this thread:
Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant

Within that conversation, I showed that the Ark Island's closest, real-world locale is the Greek island of Anafi, in the Mediterranean/southern part of the Agean Sea and relatively close to the coast of Turkey. Far away from Malta...

Island_01.jpg

How are you getting the impression that I'm holding you responsible for the novel's jungle island?:confused: I didn't realize that offering a theory about the change was equal to "making a stink", etc.

(The attitude & therapy comments can be easily turned around towards you...but I won't do that.:cool:)
 

Archaeos

Member
Well, I would vote for keeping this thread.

If it wouldn't have been for this thread, I would not have stumbled over Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant, the overlaid graphic, and the presumed island location of Anafi, where I now hunger to go to...:cool: It's also next to Santorini (y) , which is on my list for a long time (and my partner's, too, as her favourite yoga teacher is teaching there every year).

I love the curating of The Raven by the moderating team alot (combining threads, which makes searchability and readibility so much better; or have global threads, such as on 'Germany' etc.). It's top-notch work. But just :gun: culling threads upon request I think is a no-go.

And Anafi - aside from working out geographically - also bears geological resemblance to the one in ROTLA.

anafi1.jpg


130992341.ccScA5ie.RomeDec10019.jpg

[here]

I can see a submarine there in this pic; camouflaged as an islet, but as clear as the day... (just kidding, of course)
anafi_13.jpg


____
edit: link issue on second picture, added hyperlink
 
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Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Those second and third pictures don't appear for me, but I quite agree that the first one suggests Anafi is a match we can be happy with.
 

Archaeos

Member
Terribly sorry, Professor, for not doing my course work properly.

(If it helps, Sir, I have a typical student apology: I am, like, still hung over from that party for that Queen, and even the Prince is now in hospital with a bladder infection)

Below hyperlinks for all pix:

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3 - with the sub :rolleyes:


And just for good measure and for comparison's sake:

anafi1.jpg


348.jpg
 

foreverwingnut

New member
Sorry, I'm not ready to open another dialogue with Stoo just yet, but I am impressed with his suggestion of Anafi- it is an excellent choice as an inspiration for the Ark Island. Suggestions are, after all, the whole direction of my thread- to allow Indy fans to present some possible inspirations without getting chastised for them. I still don't know how to upload photos on these threads, but I have some photos of the Maltese Islands on photobucket that show why I was struck by the similarities to the Ark Island. Anafi is, perhaps a better choice because it is a single island, whereas the Malta is an archipelago, but once you see the photos, you'll understand why I took notice. I would love to hear some more possibilities, Indy fans, as I'm sure there are other islands in the Mediteranean that have striking similarities. In the meantime, check out my Malta photos at
http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh511/foreverwingnut/Maltese Islands/
 

Montana Smith

Active member
foreverwingnut said:
I still don't know how to upload photos on these threads, but I have some photos of the Maltese Islands on photobucket that show why I was struck by the similarities to the Ark Island. ... In the meantime, check out my Malta photos at
http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh511/foreverwingnut/Maltese Islands/

To post pictures from Photobucket you just need to copy the IMG code and paste it into your post.

Or for any picture right click it with the mouse, select 'Properties' and copy the Address (URL).

Paste that and type
at the end of it.

:hat:
 

foreverwingnut

New member
Let me see if I can follow Monty's directions...

Malta7.jpg


Look at that! Thanks, Monty! I immediately thought of the hidden Nazi port when I saw this.
Malta6.jpg

Malta4.jpg

The Jewish ruins in the photo above have a similarity to the ritual stage on the Ark Island.
Malta3.jpg

Malta1.jpg

Notice the high bluffs with very little vegitation. The rock layers look a great deal like the canyon walls on the Ark Island.
 
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Archaeos

Member
Very interesting. Thanks for posting the pictures, ForeverWingNut.

What "Jewish ruins" are these, and where are they located? On Malta, or on Gozo?
 

foreverwingnut

New member
The ruins that are pictured above are of Haqar Qim on Malta. Of the dozen ruin sites dotting both Malta and Gozo, this one is said to be the best preserved. I'm not sure if all of the ruins were constructed by Jewish settlers, but this one is believed to have been. Obviously there are no signs of modern civilization on the Ark Island and few visible signs of an ancient settlement, but it's the essence of these particular images of the Maltese Islands that reminded me of the climax to Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think we can all agree on at least that much. Check out the image of Maltese island of Filfla below.

Filfla.jpg
 
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