If the "new" object is the Ark...

If, as some have suggested, the object of Indy's pursuit in Indy IV is once again the Ark, some problems arise. Obviously, the first issue which would need to be addressed is how it was removed from the government warehouse. This could be as simple as "due to an error in paperwork" but it would probably need to be more complex so it doesn't seem like a cheesy, easy answer for a script.

Another issue, which I think is even tougher to resolve, is how they would wrap up the film. In Raiders it was the Ark itself that ultimately did in the bad guys. In LC, it was the power of the Grail that led to the "big end" of the story (Donovan dying after drinking from it and the parting of the earth when it crossed the seal). Being that we already saw what secrets and powers were kept in the Ark, how could the story be resolved? What would be a new, creative, exciting, fulfilling ending for the film if, in fact, the Ark is the object in IV?

Leave the Ark out of it

Good post ROTLA

I really hope that if they ever do make the Indy Iv movie, that they don't use the Ark.

Raiders of the Lost Ark is still the Classic Indiana Jones movie. It had a great beginning, it was a great movie, and it had a great ending.

There is no need for any kind of 'closure' or any kind of 'full circle' or anything else of that kind.

Raiders had a beginning, a middle, and an end. It was just one of many Indiana Jones adventures, of which most have yet to be told.

Eventually they will be.........

I would not mind if they brought back the Golden Idol (still one of the most frighteningly ugly pieces Indy has ever tried to obtain), but the Lost Ark? There is no need. The government has it in its possession and that's that.

I still feel that a fictitious artifact would be best since our concern with every Indy adventure, at least mine anyway, is not if he could get the artifact but if he was going to survive while getting it.

ROTLA said:

Being that we already saw what secrets and powers were kept in the Ark, how could the story be resolved? What would be a new, creative, exciting, fulfilling ending for the film if, in fact, the Ark is the object in IV?

Click to expand...

The Ark could be returned to the Well of Souls, or maybe some organisation (similar to the guys in Last Crusade who were protecting the Grail) could be trying to reclaim it, so Indy lets them have it cos they treat it with more respect than the American govt. I dunno, making this up as I go...

There are a few historical discrepancies as to the REAL Ark of the covenant. It seems King Solomans son stole the real Ark from the temple of Solomon and carried down through the borders of Ethiopia and disappeared. Meanwhile, Solomon ordered a decoy to be built, and it was the decoy that was buried in Tanis. So, Indy could be going after the REAL Ark in Ethiopia...

But I still agree that it would be lame to do so. My bet is on the Garden of Eden...

Playing on historical discrepancies could have been a possibility except for one thing: if the Ark found in Raiders was the replica placed it Tanis, it sure had some crazy powers in it!! It would be tough to explain what happened when the Ark was opened at the end of Raiders if it was only a fake.

It could simply be explained as all holy relics are holy in nature. "As the false Ark brings death, the true Ark will bring eternal life...." then again, maybe not..

PS - RoTLA - "You could warn them If only you spkoe Hovitos"
ToD - "Fortune and glory kid."
LC - "X Never ever Marks the spot."
IV - "I'm gettin' too old for this $!#%..."

We are lucky to have hind sight in dealing with the topic of the Ark. Stay with me a minute if you will:
A growing trend today in Jewish Orthodox is the belief that Jeramiah hid the Ark for a time when the temple could be rebuilt after it was destroyed for the first time. ( a quick look at 1982 and Rabbi Getz and the digging under the current Dome of the Rock supports this theroy)

NOW
if we assume the belief that the Ark is to revealed again to reconcile the people to God,

AND
Indiana Jones and the Nazis disturbed the timeline and revelation process

THEN
It is possible to belive there could be consequences related to the Ark. Only another artifact(fictional) could allude this to Indiana, thereby propelling him to recover and restore the Ark accordingly.

APaleHorse hit the nail on the head, at least as my theory for the ark goes....

If the finding and revelation of the Ark leads to the apocolpse, the ending for Indy IV would be dealing with the fact that Indy must destroy the ark (sending it back to God) or destroy the place where it's hidden to prvent it being revealed (and bringing about the end-times).

It's true that there is a belief that the Ark is held by a religious order in Ethiopia, and that only a select few are allowed to view it.

There are many other theories about the final resting place of the Ark, however. The most interesting theory I read stated that the Arks final resting place was in Ireland (wish I could remember where I read that, it was a fascinating article), while others say that the Ark has been removed from the world entirely and is in the hands of God.

Wherever the Ark is, it leads to a lot of dramatic possibilities.



Lorn

I have said this before i know but bear with me.

The Ark cannot be the sole artifact again as then it would not be a quest movie which Indiana Jones movies are. So i think that the Ark must have something more to it than that, what about the inscriptions on the side couldnt these either give prophecies or the location of new artifacts the Ark was the holiest artifact in Judiasm (if it ever existed) and this wud b where the location of Eden would be disclosed. The Ark must have a greater use than just as a smiting machine (TM); couldnt maybe the Ark be shown to be part of the mystery of lost civilisations?; or for the Ark to unlock the location of Atlantis etc..

I think that as for an ends to which it could be introduced i think that shadowy us government forces that locked it away would be all too egar to use it again or perhaps Nazis agents tried to get it back and it was taken by the Soviets, it would make a good flashback at least. Someone would want to harness its power

Stop worrying, the Ark is not going to return in IV.

I dont' think the point is so much whether or not the Ark would return in Indy IV...the point is in the speculation and the fun we can have coming up with probably plots that *could* be used as Indy IV, being as we havent' figured out what the *real* one is yet.



Lorn

How about if a kid digs up the Ark during a thunderstorm and jams a steel post into it to make sure it is finally dead. Then a lightning bolt strikes the post, sending a current into the Ark and bringing it back to life to terrorize a teenage campground again...

OOPS...had a flashback to Friday the 13th Part 1,273!!!

Seriously though, I think Lorn was right about all this speculation. It's not that we really believe the Ark is the object of Indy IV. It's the fun associated with trying to come up with the different possibilities. We enjoy the Indy films and, being that not much is known about IV, we're doing what we can to have fun, entertaining chatter about the new movie. It's just another way to talk about the Indy series.

I agree.

Let people talk.

sometimes I get the impression that people don't want anyone to post anything to this forum unless it passes a rigorous cleansing process by which anything not precisely in line with certain strict guidelines is weeded out.

Just let people talk about what they want to talk about.

To be perfectly honest I'm almost becoming cynical about the whole Indy IV thing.

Excited about it? Not

Care what the plot is? Don't

Like the concept of Indy in the fifties? No

Care if they ever make it? NO

Will go to see it if they do? duh!

I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling cynical about it, Monkey.

There's a few things that have me worried too (the idea of Indy in the 50's for one, and trying to come up with a suitable artifact for another) but on the whole, I'm excited.

I honestly don't believe that Lucas or Spielberg would be going ahead with a 4th film unless they really felt they could hit one out of the ballpark with it.

The ending for Last Crusade would be the perfect movie to cap off with due to the riding off into the sunset scene...but the concept of an older Indiana does have some interesting possibilities.

I think George learned after The Phantom Menace that it's dangerous to disappoint the fans - notice how much more fun Attack of the Clones was?

TPM had a really difficult job to do, trying to set everything in the series up...so it can be forgiven in many respects. George himself stated on the Attack of the Clones documentaries that he was surprised to find out what the fans didn't like about the new movies.

Because of this lesson, I think they aim to really give Indy a send-off. Spielberg is usually VERY quality-control minded, and Harrison is a big fan of the character too.

Buck up buddy...try and find some excitement.

I think what gets me the most excited about the movies is considering the fact that I was a little kid when I first saw Raiders of the Lost Ark. (I think I was 4...I remember seeing it in the theaters!) My folks wouldn't let me go see Temple of Doom, so I saw that one years later. But I do remember going to see Last Crusade in the theaters.

Now that I'm an adult, I think it's amazing that I'm going to see the final episodes of 2 of my favorite series on the Big Screen. How can you not be excited that these movies still have such a huge following after 20 years?



Lorn

Monkey i too am becoming annoyed with Indy IV; for me i have just discussed it too such a point that i am repeating myself endlessly.

I think that Indy IV is a big risk by turning Indy IV into something of a fish out of water situation they are basicly relying on the strength of the character alone to carry the film.

But i think that they should be able to deliver something....and it will be made if it isnt going to be made then a lot of high ranking executives are going to look stupid (Paramount bloke for one)

The original Star Wars had something that the new movies don't. A strong backstory. That was prevailant in every part of the original trilogy. The new ones lost that and became, well, stupid. (C3PO built by ANAKIN?!?!?! Didn't he think he should've maybe MENTIONED this to Luke?)

Indiana Jones iv will not lose that aspect with a character oriented writer/director like Darabont. It should be interesting to see where it goes. I'm sure there'll be references to Indy himself becoming a relic. I'm sure the artifact Indy goes after will reflect the age motif. Fountain of youth sort of thing, but somehow tied up with the garden of Eden, which at this point am pretty sure is the mcguffin.

My own frustration and cynicism is borne of the same things that Bob talks about.

And yes, this movie will probably deliver something. It will probably be interesting.

But then a freak show is interesting too.

"Step right up and see the OLD Indiana Jones! That's right folks, Indiana Jones in the Cold War! ....Don't get too close to the cage son, you don't know what he might do, he's OLD you know."

I don't know.

Just annoyed with the whole thing really because I'm such a big fan of the character of Indiana Jones. It's actually because of that reason that I am annoyed at Indy IV.

And by the way, um, er, could they like maybe, make it???

It's getting to be like a trip to the dentist, something you just want to get over and done with.

Sorry for the cynicism.

Monkey has said it all. Just make it.